Advice on a pocket 2" revolver

[saturno_v]

I'm interested in getting a pocketable small revolver and I was considering either a Smith Wesson PD scandium or a regular S&W steel or a Ruger LCR.


Few questions.....how is the performance of a 9 mm Luger out of a short revolver barrel (Ruger LCR) compared to a small 380 Auto pistol and a 38 Special +P?

Is a 357 Mag 125 gr. HP out of a short barrel wheelgun still significantly more powerful than a 38 Special +P?


Is the S&W scandium PD revolver or the Luger LCR (polymer) strong enough to accept a fairly regular diet of 357 mag personal defense loads meaning mainly 125 gr. HP? I heard of scandium revolvers frame breakage in the past.

Is the 357 ammo prone to bullet "jumping" when fired from such a small and light revolvers??

Any other advice??

Thank you!!!

 

[Lucky Derby]

To take your questions one at a time:
1. Generally performance will be in this order from weakest to strongest. Of course there are exception with specific loads
.380, .38SPL, .38spl +P, 9mm, 9mm+P, .357 Magnum
2. Yes, however it can also be much harder to control
3. Yes, however you will not want to do that. It is a painful thing to do.
4. With lead bullets, yes. Not so much with jacketed. Of course a propper crimp can help. Perhaps some here who load for these guns will have more indepth info.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Snubs....

Snub revolvers aren't bad but the short ejector rod may make fast/stress free reloads hard.
There are some decent snub nose revolvers. I like the Ruger LCR series. My good friend bought a new .38spl +P with a Davidson's Warranty & a red laser Centerfire. He's happy with it. I may buy a new Ruger .22WMR LCR. It's not super powerful but new defense rounds from Winchester, Speer Gold Dot, etc are impressive. The .22WMR has low recoil & the revolver is light-weight.

I'm not very fond of Ruger's new 9x19mm LCR. It's heavy like the .357magnum version & the cases may get stuck .
You can use moon clips but I like Quik Strips, www.tuffproducts.com . They come in pink, black & safety orange(my pick).

Rusty
PS; you can tote 2 .357/.38/9mm strips in a Altoids mint tin.

 

[HankR]

Hey all,

I just tried to wake up the old thread on bullets jumping crimp in the 9mm LCR. Does anybody have any more info on how big of a problem this is going to be? (I am a fan of pistol caliber revolvers, and don't mind the moon clips on my .45 ACP revolvers.)

Thanks,

 

[Stainz]

A 637/642, a 15.5oz AirWeight 5-shot .38 Spcl +P (hammer/hammerless), is all you need. See the "642 Club" threads here!

Stainz

 

[JFrame]

Is the S&W scandium PD revolver or the Luger LCR (polymer) strong enough to accept a fairly regular diet of 357 mag personal defense loads meaning mainly 125 gr. HP? I heard of scandium revolvers frame breakage in the past.

This could very well be the weenie in me speaking -- but I really doubt you'll shoot enough .357's through a scandium revolver to find out. Unless you're going for an uber-mild .357 load, the experience can be, uhm, "exhilarating"...

I fired some hot .357 loads through my 360PD, and I swear the experience temporarily sent me into another time continuum...

.

 

[JFrame]

Is the 357 ammo prone to bullet "jumping" when fired from such a small and light revolvers??

I did a very light test with a couple of brands (125gr Remington Golden Sabers and 130gr somethings from PMC) on my 360PD. I fired a cylinder of each, and took out the fifth round.

In each instance, there was bullet jump in the casing. I noticed that the effect seemed to be more pronounced in the bullet that was non-canellured. I can't say absolutely that the canelluring made a difference in the jump, but I'm thinking it had to be at least a part of the equation.

Neither bullet jumped enough to be unfireable, but this was a small test sample. In any case, I think you'd want to use up all the rounds fired from any such revolver, and not save them for future use without examining them VERY closely (and probably not even then).

.

 

[Sergei Mosin]

I haven't experienced any bullet jump with my .357 LCR. However, I don't shoot full power loads in it any more; my hand can't take it. My carry load is the .357 Golden Saber, which is a medium-level load, offering more power than the .38+P while still being (in my hands) controllable in rapid fire.

 

[JFrame]

I haven't experienced any bullet jump with my .357 LCR. However, I don't shoot full power loads in it any more; my hand can't take it. My carry load is the .357 Golden Saber, which is a medium-level load, offering more power than the .38+P while still being (in my hands) controllable in rapid fire.

Man -- that 4-5 ounces in weight difference between the LCR and 360PD must make all the difference...

.

 

[Panzerschwein]

A quality made, airweight .38 special +P revolver is perfect for pocket carry.

A good .38 special +P load like Speer Gold Dot Short barrel 135 grain +P strikes a perfect balance of power, controllability, and reliability, all still possible in a fairly lightweight revolver like the LCR or airweight S&W's.

I'd personally aim for getting a .38 special +P snubby that weighs roughly 15 oz. Still very light and comfortable for pocket carry, but not TOO light to where recoil and follow up shots will become an issue. Some people get hung up on wanting a "big bad .357" for pocket carry, when in reality that short barrel robs the .357 magnum of much of it's power and increases muzzle blast and recoil to intolerable levels for the majority of shooters. The 9mm snubs are an interesting concept, but again you're going to get more recoil and with the good .38 +P loads out today there isn't much of a point in using one for defense. You also don't need moon clips or have to worry about exotic extractors with a .38 snub.

 

[RustyShackelford]

Magnum loads out of snubs.....

Id also advise not shooting tons of magnum ammunition out of J frame size snub.
In the early 1990s, in my 20s, I bought a new DA only 2.25" Ruger SP101 .357magnum. I shot a few 25rd boxes of Golden Saber 125gr JHP .357magnum.
I felt like I stuck my hand in a beehive.

.38Spl +P or a "short barrel" .357magnum load would be fine for CCW or home defense.

Rusty

 

[Paladin7]

I'll add to what was said in Lucky Derby's Excellent Post...

1. Generally performance will be in this order from weakest to strongest. Of course there are exception with specific loads
.380, .38SPL, .38spl +P, 9mm, 9mm+P, .357 Magnum

Agreed. 9mm in a snub revolver is never a concept that worked well...you can Google it. 38spl +P is probably your best option for power/controllability/follow up shots/muzzle flash and hearing in enclosed spaces

2. Yes, however it can also be much harder to control

357 Magnum out of a light snub will give you control issues, pain, and muzzle blast and noise that will make it prohibitive to fire in an enclosed space, i.e. a car or enclosed room, esp. in the dark.

3. Yes, however you will not want to do that. It is a painful thing to do.

Agreed, not fun to shoot a lot of 357 Magnum loads out of a light snub.

4. With lead bullets, yes. Not so much with jacketed. Of course a proper crimp can help. Perhaps some here who load for these guns will have more in-depth info.

A good crimp on your ammunition is a must for heavy recoiling revolvers. 38 spl +P included...it's a good idea.

Final advice... I'd recommend the 38spl +P and go hammerless esp. if you plan on firing from a jacket pocket.

 

[Old Fuff]

Any other advice??

The Old Fuff suggests that you test fire before you buy.

Especially if you plan to match a high performance cartridge (such as the .357 Magnum) with an ultra-light/small frame snubby.

And in addition to other suggestions consider the Taurus model 380 that has a shorter frame and cylinder then the popular 38 Special/357 Magnum revolvers in this category of handguns. Overall length can be an important consideration when it cones to pocket guns.

 

[Stainz]

I've shot a bunch of 'hot' loads in revolvers - including .454 & .500M - and a DE MKII in .50AE. The absolute worst was a friend's 11.4oz Al/Sc/Ti 340PD loaded with hot CorBon .357M's. First, there is nothing to hold on to... second, there is little mass to mediate the recoil. To be fair, the nearby 2nd place goes to the DE - and not for recoil - for the sudden wrist-twist when the rotational inertia is suddenly halted - nearly unbearable with my CTS-riddled wrist. .454's and .500M's were a loud big push (Mass helps!) - and fun (I had a 7.5" SRH in .454 for years - shot >800 240gr 2kfps .454 XTP's - and many others, too.). But... the worst-ever recoil was from that 340PD with those hot .357M's... HiVel, I still owe you!

Stainz

PS Age has something to do with it... I wouldn't say I 'enjoy' shooting my 15.5oz 642 .38 with +P's these days, either. Now, from my 3" 60 Pro, it's another matter!

 

[MCgunner]

Okay, these are my opinions, only my opinions.....

Is a 357 Mag 125 gr. HP out of a short barrel wheelgun still significantly more powerful than a 38 Special +P?

Well, actually, this one's FACT. YES, the .357 is a lot more out of even a 2" gun IF you choose your load well. SAAMI dumbed down the pressures in .357 ammo back in 92, but you can still get real magnum ammo from places like Buffalo Bore, or your handy dandy Dillon progressive and a Speer No 11 manual. I've found the 125 grain is the WORST choice of all in short barrels. Heavier 140s do a lot better in handloads. BUT, Buffalo Bore shows some pretty unreal velocities for a 125 grain from a 2" or 3" barrel. Personally, I carry a 140. 125 grain stuff has issues with forcing cone erosion and just isn't my cup of tea, regardless of its reputation in 4 and 6" revolvers.

Is the S&W scandium PD revolver or the Luger LCR (polymer) strong enough to accept a fairly regular diet of 357 mag personal defense loads meaning mainly 125 gr. HP? I heard of scandium revolvers frame breakage in the past.

I wouldn't put a regular diet of hot .357 though either one, personally, and that's not just the strength of the guns, but of my hand. :rolleyes; I practice with .38 wadcutter and carry hot 140 JHPs. I've been shooting long enough that I do know what's gonna happen when I fire a hot load, don't flinch, haven't for a long time. But, when I was a newb, I had to get over that flinch.

The LCR has more bulk to it. I've fired one hot load in a 340...NO MAS! The LCR soaks it up better, though it's a bit heavier to carry, but weight well worth it IMHO. Again, JMHO.

Is the 357 ammo prone to bullet "jumping" when fired from such a small and light revolvers??

Heavy bullets if not well crimped can do this. Factory loads, suppose it'd depend on the load. None of my handloads do since I put good crimps on 'em.

 

[MCgunner]

Oh, btw, .38 special ain't broke. My hourly pocket companion so long as I have pants on has been my Taurus M85 stainless ultralight. Hey, nobody wants to get shot with a .38 special, either.

I have only every shot one coyote, 3 cottonmouths, and a feral dog chasing my chickens with my Taurus 85, all in the last two years since we moved to the woods. I've only ever killed numerous rabbits with other .38s, most for camp meat while on deer hunts. But, if I ever get attacked by a two legged snake, I will have the .38 on me even if I forget the .357 at the house.

 

[MCgunner]

Oh, they do make some nice pocket autos in 9x19 which have a lot more pop than a .38 +P and more firepower, not to discourage you in your revolver quest. I don't think they make a more logical self defense pocket gun than a 9x19 pistol. My own, which don't get carried much since I got out of the naked city, is a Kel Tec...11 rounds of +P 9 on tap and amazingly accurate, too.

 

[Vodoun da Vinci]

My advice is to rent/borrow some of the guns you are contemplating owning and shoot them. My experience with the powerful/light weight revolvers is that some shooters can reach the outer limit of their recoil tolerance rather quickly with .357 snubbies.

I own an LCR in .38 Special and with moderate factory .38 Special loads (not +P) I was being sterilized by recoil - absolutely brutal to the point of a numb hand and short practice sessions were mandatory which is completely the opposite of what you need with snubbies.

Few will disagree that snub nosed revolvers (in any caliber) are amongst the most difficult guns to get rapid fire accuracy with. I solved the problem with my LCR (which I *really* like!) by hand loading for it - by the time I developed loads I was able to handle and get accurate follow ups with in rapid fire I was down to the equivalent horsepower of a .380 auto which gives me a couple more rounds and rapid reload capability. Don't get me wrong, I adore my .38 and .357 snubbies but everyone deals with recoil as an individual.

As already stated, full house .357 mag out of a snubbie can alter your perception of reality. In other words, some of these guns can deliver so much power and resultant recoil as to make them less than suitable for some folks.

VooDoo

 

[Zeke/PA]

I really like my S&W 638 in .38 Special.
It fits into a jeans pocket and I can shoot it all day with my reloads.

 

[DocRx]

My Ruger KLCR .357mag jammed on a cylinder full of Corbon DPX 125gr .357mag ammo about a year ago. I contacted Corbon and they responded with "it is a common problem in lightweight revolvers shooting .357mag among all ammo manufacturers". The VP of Sales also advised me to read the warning in the Owner's Manual (which I apparently overlooked) that recommended the shoot 3-4, check 4-5 for separation, which is done ever time now that I shoot. I now carry Speer GD 125gr .357mag, with no problem so far after testing over 50 rds. If I can't get the .357mags, the Speer GD Short Barrel 135gr .38spl+P is a suitable alternative for me. Take care and good luck.

 

[Twiki357]

I’ll just add that I’ve been perfectly happy with my S&W model 637 (38+P) for pocket carry. I like the exposed hammer and have never had a problem with it snagging. Nothing wrong with the DAO’s, just not my cup of tea.

 

[SeanSw]

We are new owners to the Ruger LCR in .38 special. After trying one out we knew that the .357 version wasn't for us. We had already been testing .357 magnum loads in the much heavier (more than twice as heavy) Ruger sp101 and felt, on our end of the gun, diminishing returns with magnum loads. Our first day with the LCR and 3 boxes of .38 special between us we both had sore hands for a couple days. She's quite tall and strong, fairly athletic, and I cook for a living so my hands see a lot of abuse. Neither of us are particularly recoil sensitive. Even with the factory shock absorbing grips there is some recoil to deal with in a lightweight snubbie. That's just what happens with a 12oz. revolver. I suspect most people will find a load powerful enough for their comfort before getting deep into .357 territory....

I love S&W as much as anyone but IMO the LCR is the pocket gun to beat. It has a great trigger out of the box and the fiber optic sights are a nice factory upgrade. We will have ours a very long time. My complaints are native to the platform. I don't like the short ejector rod and I think the tamer grips are too large and grippy for pocket carry. Also, it's kinda ugly. Luckily no one else should ever have to look at it.

 

[C0untZer0]

by the time I developed loads I was able to handle and get accurate follow ups with in rapid fire I was down to the equivalent horsepower of a .380 auto

The 105 gr Federal Guard Dog is probably one of the softeset shooting 9mm rounds, but at 1060 ft/sec and 337 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, it still has significantly more energy than 380 AUTO cartridges.

Unfortunately, it performs like the average mediocre 380 hollowpoint in gel - penetrating around 10"

 

[S&Wfan]

As others have suggested, go for an AirWEIGHT vs. the brutal AirLite. I wish you could shoot a handgun match with an AirLite and an Airweight before you buy, and you'd see the speed of the heavier Airweight will make all the difference in the world in accuracy and speed. Lots of experienced handgunners feel this way when it comes to a "pocket gun."

No need to go for the steel frame either . . . it simply gives you the ol' "J frame bounce" due to its excessive weight. The Airweight is "heavy" enough to tame the recoil yet "light" enough to effectively conceal in situations when the steel gun would be too heavy.

Also, a good 38 Special load will allow you to put several fast and accurate shots on the target much more effectively and faster than a .357 load. No handgun is a "buffalo rifle round," so your ability to deliver quicker, yet still lethal rounds is so important.

I've got all sorts of stuff in the safe, but my Airweight is always in my pocket . . . ready to go . . . and it is loaded with .38 Special. I feel it is THE winning combination in a world of compromises. My opinion, but I bet my life on that opinion and feel quite well armed. Of course, I've got stouter handguns nearby too . . . but they've got the weight needed to damp the recoil of stouter cartridges.

Good luck with your personal choice . . . but I'd avoid an AirLite like the plague.

 

[tubeshooter]

I very nearly got the LCR, but chose the 642 instead.

I like all of the Airweight S&W models, and I had no huge issue with the LCR. I would recommend either one.

The LCR actually weighs a little less than the Airweight models, (13.5 ounces vs. 15-ish) but I think it has a better grip for absorbing recoil. The Airweight grips are a little better for pocket carry. Keep in mind that this is in terms of the stock grips, and either can be changed to suit the owner better.



I carried an all steel .38 snub for 20 years beforehand. It's amazing how much difference 5 ounces and a comfortable 3-finger grip makes. My old gun is MUCH more fun to shoot.