Ive wanted to get into shooting 308 for a little while now and was looking at gettin a S&W m&p ar-10. if anyone has had experience whit this or similar rifle let me know what kind of optics and accuracy you get and lastly what you think about it and why you picked what you did
Advice on an ar-10
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Llama Bob
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I went with a LMT MWS. I've shot it both with the chrome lined barrel and the match barrel. I've used a couple of optics, but there's a Burris XTRII 5-25 + an aimpoint H1 on there right now.
Accuracy is about 1MOA or a little worse with the chrome barrel and a variety of loads. It's sub-MOA with several loads with the match barrel. I normally shoot Hornady 155gr. TAP or 165gr. Accubonds.
I chose it because of the reputation for accuracy, the combat-proven reliability, and the barrel change capability. I have no complaints.
Accuracy is about 1MOA or a little worse with the chrome barrel and a variety of loads. It's sub-MOA with several loads with the match barrel. I normally shoot Hornady 155gr. TAP or 165gr. Accubonds.
I chose it because of the reputation for accuracy, the combat-proven reliability, and the barrel change capability. I have no complaints.
Same here on my mine, the LM8 model. It's LMT's so-called "slickside" variant which eliminates the rails at 3,6, & 9 o'clock.
Among several competing entrants, the Brits adopted the LMT MWS for a DMR weapon after extensive field trials.
No one around here, with any experience in ".308 ARs," takes S&W's M&P model seriously. A range toy at best. Under hard use, ah, well, not so much. Just sayin'.
Not everyone is jumping into combat with the SAS either...
OP, S&W makes decent weapons but understand that their platform is just that theirs. Replacement parts and add ons may be harder to come by. You'd be best served selecting a 308 AR that is either DPMS or Armalite pattern. DPMS has the most following and aftermarket acceptance but Armalite has been gaining ground in recent years. I am building a DPMS pattern AR308 at the moment. I didn't like what was offered so I decided to build my own.
OP, S&W makes decent weapons but understand that their platform is just that theirs. Replacement parts and add ons may be harder to come by. You'd be best served selecting a 308 AR that is either DPMS or Armalite pattern. DPMS has the most following and aftermarket acceptance but Armalite has been gaining ground in recent years. I am building a DPMS pattern AR308 at the moment. I didn't like what was offered so I decided to build my own.
There are a lot of good ones out there. DPMS makes a nice cheap rifle that can be fairly accurate. You can also go stupid on some of the high end rifles; I have about 5k tied up in my F&D Defense rifle with Optics, nice rifle but not all that much more a accurate than my $1,200 DPMS was with hand loads. All depends on what you want and what you have to spend.
Jackal
Member
Take a look at the DPMS GII rifles as well, especially if you dont want a heavy rifle. Here's a pic of my 6lb, 15oz (empty) GII.
wayne in boca
Member
I have an M&P 10,and like it a lot.I am using a Trijicon ACOG TA11J308G for an optic,and she hits what I point her at.I did replace the facory trigger,stock and handguard,and grip.My rifle will function just fine with softpoint ammo or milsurp and never malfunctioned even once.Good accurate,wellmade rifle.
Quentin
Member
While you're comparing various 308 ARs be sure to look at the ArmaLite AR-10. I have the A-series DEF10, a 16" lightweight carbine that lists for around $1000 and uses PMAGs like most other brands. (The ArmaLite B-series uses M14 style magazines.)
PSA's PA10 can be a bargain but like S&W, parts can be proprietary. If you plan to build you must figure out which parts are compatible with your project. It's easy to stumble over incompatibilities, this is nothing like building an AR-15.
PSA's PA10 can be a bargain but like S&W, parts can be proprietary. If you plan to build you must figure out which parts are compatible with your project. It's easy to stumble over incompatibilities, this is nothing like building an AR-15.
jpwilly
Member
I have a DPMS LR 308 Recon and it's a fine rifle! Sub Mao with match grade ammo wears a Nikon M308 4-16x40 scope
Ks5shooter
Contributing Member
DPMS GII love mine. I have the hunter model.
smitty22gunr
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I got a barely used Armalite AR-10 a while ago and never looked back. Can't recall a single FTF. My only complaint is that it uses proprietary Armalite mags only, but they are extremely well built and worth the extra money anyway. The .308 is already such a versatile caliber, made more so in such a versatile platform. I use mine to hunt whitetail primarily, but I'm ready for coyotes and feral hogs as well. Through the years I added a Magpul PRS stock and MOE pistol grip, a Lantac Dragon muzzle break, a CMC single stage trigger group, and free float hand guard. I've never tried it with super high end ammo, but with good hunting ammo its right at MOA. Good luck!
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Reloadron
Contributing Member
I bought my AR-10(T) maybe around 25 years ago and like the AR-15 rifles the selection was limited. After several sleepless nights I settled on Armalite. My rifle uses the M14 modified type magazines.
Today there are many more manufacturers of the AR-10 rifle and while the S&W guns are very good if I were to do it all over again I would avoid the S&W guns simply for the reasons Robert mentions. You run with S&W and everything is proprietary to S&W. I would look towards the DPMS guns or the Armalite guns. While I did use a scope initially just to see what the rifle would do with a match barrel today it remains with its match sights. Consider a rifle that leaves you options.
The free float came later with the match barrel. I have never had any regrets with the rifle. Anyway, I would consider Armalite or DPMS and work from there. Again, S&W is a fine and reasonably priced rifle but consider you are tied to S&W.
Ron
Today there are many more manufacturers of the AR-10 rifle and while the S&W guns are very good if I were to do it all over again I would avoid the S&W guns simply for the reasons Robert mentions. You run with S&W and everything is proprietary to S&W. I would look towards the DPMS guns or the Armalite guns. While I did use a scope initially just to see what the rifle would do with a match barrel today it remains with its match sights. Consider a rifle that leaves you options.
The free float came later with the match barrel. I have never had any regrets with the rifle. Anyway, I would consider Armalite or DPMS and work from there. Again, S&W is a fine and reasonably priced rifle but consider you are tied to S&W.
Ron
dusty14u
Member
I've owned a M&P10 for a few years now. I use it mainly for hunting and it has performed extremely well. It is most accurate with 168gr Barnes and Hornadays as well as my hand loads. It has taken deer out to 300yds and hopefully I will get a black bear in my sights next season. They are harder to get since we have such a short season for them here, but we have a good population of them on my hunt land.
With good ammo it shoots sub moa but the groups open up with 147/150 grain bullets. I have never had an issue with mine but I am not an "operator" so what do I know.
With good ammo it shoots sub moa but the groups open up with 147/150 grain bullets. I have never had an issue with mine but I am not an "operator" so what do I know.
UKWildcatFan
Member
Get a SCAR 17S and be done.
henschman
Member
If you want something with a high probability of not having issues, I'd recommend an Armalite. The DEF10 is their most basic version, and can be found under $1000. If you want to spend a little more, the LMT is the next step up that is good to go. After that there is the KAC. Those are really the only ones that are worth messing with IMO.
I definitely do not recommend the M&P 10. Been there, done that. They have issues. They are chronically under gassed for one thing. But the main issue with them is not mechanical -- it's with S&W's customer service. If you break something, its not as simple as just ordering a spare part for it like with other rifles... they do not sell spare parts, and all of the most important components are a proprietary design. After the ridiculous amount of trouble I went through just to get them to allow me to pay them to put a new barrel on mine after the original one blew up, I would never recommend them to anybody.
When I finally got mine back from S&W after about 9 months of back and forth with them, I immediately sold it and bought an Armalite DEF10 with the money. I am pleased with the purchase... unlike the Smith it was reliable with NATO spec ammo right out of the box with no tweaking, has spare parts available from multiple sources, and it is just as light weight and accurate as the Smith was. They use a 4150 barrel instead of the weaker 4140 one the Smith has.
I definitely do not recommend the M&P 10. Been there, done that. They have issues. They are chronically under gassed for one thing. But the main issue with them is not mechanical -- it's with S&W's customer service. If you break something, its not as simple as just ordering a spare part for it like with other rifles... they do not sell spare parts, and all of the most important components are a proprietary design. After the ridiculous amount of trouble I went through just to get them to allow me to pay them to put a new barrel on mine after the original one blew up, I would never recommend them to anybody.
When I finally got mine back from S&W after about 9 months of back and forth with them, I immediately sold it and bought an Armalite DEF10 with the money. I am pleased with the purchase... unlike the Smith it was reliable with NATO spec ammo right out of the box with no tweaking, has spare parts available from multiple sources, and it is just as light weight and accurate as the Smith was. They use a 4150 barrel instead of the weaker 4140 one the Smith has.
Agree.
Sadly, Smith's MP-10 is a perfect example of Amercan-made junk - useless, ... other than for Sunday afternoon range plinking or maybe, passably, as a 5-shot autoloading hunter.
There are many other higher-quality options out there if what you're looking for is a serious, combat-grade 7.62/.308 AR.
M&P 10 is far from junk. 7075 t6 alloy upper and lower, 5r rifling 18" barrel, lightweight carrier and trim receiver design, uses dpms/pmags.
I have owned both Armalite and M&P. M&P is less bulky, lighter barrel contour, lighter BCG.
M&P perfect? No. Junk? Hardly.
I have owned both Armalite and M&P. M&P is less bulky, lighter barrel contour, lighter BCG.
M&P perfect? No. Junk? Hardly.
grubbylabs
Member
I have two different 308's. One is a DPMS GII Recon, its a great rifle, the only down side is the 16" barrel. Any thing over a 150 grains drops like a brick. But its still a great rifle. I have put well over a 1000 rounds through it and no issues.
The second 308 is a PSA 10 and while it did need some help, It has done fairly well for a sub$1000 Ar pattern 308. The trigger was horrible and needed polished, and the chamber also needed polished. But after that, so far it seems to be a good rifle.
The problem with 308's is that they are all proprietary. There is no Mil spec like there is with the AR-15. So if your going to build one, you need to do your research and ask before you buy.
If you just want to drop about $1,500.00 or a little more on one, one of the new DPMS GII's or the M&P 10 is where its at. But if you want to shoot rounds heavier than 150 grains, make sure you have at least a 18" barrel. And if you plan on shooting farther than 500 yards, your going to want to shoot rounds that are at least 175 grains. So again, at least a 18" barrel.
On my DPMS I am running a Vortex 1.75x-5x scope and I am really happy with it. I think its a perfect scope for that rifle. On my PA 10 with the 20" barrel I am running a Nikon P-308 4-16 and so far it has been a good scope for it.
A lot of it really depends on what you plan on doing with the rifle.
The second 308 is a PSA 10 and while it did need some help, It has done fairly well for a sub$1000 Ar pattern 308. The trigger was horrible and needed polished, and the chamber also needed polished. But after that, so far it seems to be a good rifle.
The problem with 308's is that they are all proprietary. There is no Mil spec like there is with the AR-15. So if your going to build one, you need to do your research and ask before you buy.
If you just want to drop about $1,500.00 or a little more on one, one of the new DPMS GII's or the M&P 10 is where its at. But if you want to shoot rounds heavier than 150 grains, make sure you have at least a 18" barrel. And if you plan on shooting farther than 500 yards, your going to want to shoot rounds that are at least 175 grains. So again, at least a 18" barrel.
On my DPMS I am running a Vortex 1.75x-5x scope and I am really happy with it. I think its a perfect scope for that rifle. On my PA 10 with the 20" barrel I am running a Nikon P-308 4-16 and so far it has been a good scope for it.
A lot of it really depends on what you plan on doing with the rifle.
ny32182
Member
Does anyone know the difference between:
1) DEF10:
https://armalite.com/shop/defensive-sporting-rifle-10/
and
2) Regular A-series carbine:
https://armalite.com/shop/ar-10-carbine/
Looking at the spec sheets, the only thing I'm seeing for a $500 difference in MSRP is a 2 stage trigger.
Is that all there is?
1) DEF10:
https://armalite.com/shop/defensive-sporting-rifle-10/
and
2) Regular A-series carbine:
https://armalite.com/shop/ar-10-carbine/
Looking at the spec sheets, the only thing I'm seeing for a $500 difference in MSRP is a 2 stage trigger.
Is that all there is?
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