Advice on Buying an M1 Garand

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krs
Those tags have serial number , and muzzle and throat wear measurements and date that I last did a complete tear down clean and lube written on them.
Makes it easier when I open the safe to find the rifle I want to take to the range.
Told you they werent safe queens!!
 
Also remember if you go to one of the CMP stores to look for a Garand, just ask the folks running the place you are a first time buyer an want a really nice Garand to shoot, can you help me?...I'm positive they will go out on the floor an find you a Very Good Field Grade.....I admire the CMP staff at the N.Store an bet the S.Store have great guys there too.
 
Well, the earliest I'll be able to get down there to the store will be mid November. I don't meet the requirement for marksmanship training yet. I'm taking a concealed carry permit class with range time the first weekend of November, so after that I'll be good.

I'll definitely talk with the staff and get some help in picking something out. I want something that's gonna shoot well! Hopefully they'll still have plenty of ammo then too.

Is it true that it's best to go during the beginning of the week because they restock during the off days? The south store is open from Wednesday to Saturday. I doubt I'd be able to take a whole day off just to drive down and by a rifle...unless I'm lucky. But I'd hate to get there on Saturday and have all the good rifles gone.
 
So, I'm talking to the guy from this site http://www.garandguy.com/ .
I'm sure he knows his Garands if he sells them regularly.


If you don't get to CMP buying a garand from Tony is your next best bet. It will be as he says and if something is not right he will fix it.

I have never been disappopinted by any SG Garand I ordered sight unseen. As others have said you can find a nice Field Grade if you pick it out yourself. I bought one at the NS 1943 receiver, Beretta trigger group and oprod, and VAR barrel that measured a 2 at each end. The only reason I could see it was garded FG is the finish is not as nice as as SG and the stock (all walnut including handguards) had an arsenal repair.

Good luck shopping.
 
Yes you need one but...

You have to get a Garand. My Garand is by far my favorite rifle. That said, if you don't purchase through the CMP, watch out for drill rifles. You can spot a drill rifle by pulling the op rod back and looking for a spot weld on the right side. Also, check the gas tube up where the gas lock and plug are located. If they are welded, you have a drill rifle. I mention both areas because I have seen some that had been repaired meaning the gas system was replaced, but the weld is still on the barrel. If you don't check both areas you could end up paying for a drill rifle and they are not worth as much as a rifle that isn't messed with. I mention this because there seems to be a lot more showing up as some of the VFW halls close up.
 
Thanks for the heads up about the drill rifle. I would not have even guessed to look for that, but I'll be on the lookout now!
Good stuff to know.
 
Welded receivers are even harder to spot. Years ago Garands were demilled (receivers cut in half) Interprising smiths bought up parts and receiver halves and welded them back together. Its hard to imagine but most of these can be hard to spot unless you really look for them.
 
If you dont want to wait for a order from CMP, Dupage Trading has Garands as well as Southern Ohio Guns. Dupages probably came from CMP as they seem to trade back and forth
 
Orlando:"Welded receivers are even harder to spot. Years ago Garands were demilled (receivers cut in half) Interprising smiths bought up parts and receiver halves and welded them back together. Its hard to imagine but most of these can be hard to spot unless you really look for them"

This is true, but I wonder sometimes.

I say this because I've seen two of the most experienced gun men in this site each state that they own and shoot rifles with rewelded receivers. One of those two, at least, is a man who has apparently worked and owned a successful gunsmithing shop for upwards of twenty years who I've seen posting to gunsmithing sections in forums since as early as 1999, and the other is perhaps the single most prolific expert poster here and possibly the operator of the site. (Would those two gentlemen care to step forward, please :) ).

For myself - I came into possession years ago of a National Match rifle with bona-fides as a Type I NM. All parts of this one bespeak of it's correct National Match preparation - the barrel, the bedding, the screwheld forward handguard, the trigger work, the barrel markings, the grind to the rear of the gas cylinder, the quality, density, and grain of the stock, and the overal precise fit and finish of the rifle are impossible to mistake once seen a couple of times.

It also has a unique modification to the sight windage adjuster which I've only seen again on a stripped action being sold in the CMP auctions as a NM action. (It's the addition of a small spring loaded ball bearing under the windage knob intended to tension the sight and prevent the characteristic movement(s) that can disrupt accuracy).

The rifle was clearly prepared either by Springfield Armory itself (which I doubt) or by someone fully skilled in the procedures of Garand accurization (like an inservice unit armorer at the AMTU, Ft. Benning, GA?) AND who followed , to the letter, the stipulations of the U.S. Army Ordnance Corps. 1961 manual of description as well as TM-9-1005-222-12P/1 entitled Caliber .30 US Rifle M1 (National Match) in building the rifle.

The rifle also had quite a bit of copper in the bore and it wore a good very supple 1907 type sling marked "MRT 1965" and on which someone had marked in pen various holes to use for position shooting adjustments. There was a piece of tape on the stock with range/sight notes and a tape "No hold" sign on the forward handguard. It was very obvious that this rifle had been used in competion shooting even though it had a rewelded receiver. For all I know that competitor was unaware of the fact. It also shot like the dickens as reweld until I discovered the issue and freaked out over it. Happily it still does as a rebuild on another receiver and is my all time favorite Garand.

The receiver, a 1942 SA is detectable as a reweld only by the most careful measurement or by X-ray. The measurement that has kept me from building a rifle on it - I've long since rebuilt the NM parts onto another receiver - is that the bridge to barrel seat surface is .015" beyond the blueprint spec'd allowance. This COULD bring a slamfire but probably never would.

I think I could chuck the receiver and take back the .015" from the face to build on it or do other mods to make sure that the pin stayed clear of primers and I'm sure that I could reload in a manner that would prevent any problems but (so far :) ) I have the receiver sitting bare and I recheck my measurement of it about every six months or so in the hope that I got it wrong or that the thing has grown. LOL! I don't build it because it could then be obtained after I croak by someone unaware of the issue or incapable of resolving the problems that might ensue.

Still, in thinking about the whole problem I think that a good tig welder, a guy who's used to having his work certified when he goes onto a new job and understands his metallurgy, could put together two halves to make a safe to shoot whole. I'd advise anyone to avoid such a thing and generally adhere to the "There are NO good rewelds" credo but I'm not so sure that every reweld needs flatout condemnation in every case. The biggest problem for a young innocent would lie in finding anyone willing to accept the liability of telling him that any gun is safe for him to shoot.
 
It always fascinated me how anyone could do such a weld job and make them near invisable. Not to mention alignment and reciver length etc.No matter how "good" they look how do you tell the in spec, structurly strong receivers( if there is such a thing, i dont know) from the bad? Persoanlly I'm not willing to take the chance with a potential time bomb inches from my face
 
They just make up jigs to align and hold the halves. It's not so difficult for a good welder - sort of routine instead. There were good jobs of it and there were crappy jobs of it done, and they're mostly all still out there somewhere.

As far as the dimensions, copies of original technical drawings are available from http://www.nicolausassociates.com/ (fascinating site, BTW, and he's busily compiling information from original source for many U.S. military arms). Jerry Kuhnhausen's manual has a pretty good bit about rewelds, and he's got the tech drawings (although they're kinda' small and hard to read the dimensions off the drawings).

With those drawings each dimension can be verified on a receiver, but even without those, it's kind of like developing an "eye" such as collectors talk about. When you've studied a lot of them the abberant ones begin to stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

A lot more is known today about the characteristics and variances of steel than were known then. Remember that when the rifle grenade was designed it was found that the back end of receivers would crack away because the receiver was so hardened as to be brittle under that load. So what was their solution? Not a year long gathering of engineering heads while all production was held up like might happen today. No, they just annealed the back of receivers by sticking them into pots of molten lead. All this really means is that there is leeway so long as milspec ammo is used.

I don't like to see the thick light grey parkerization on a rifle for sale. That fuzzy stuff can cover a multitude of things that you'd want visible if a reweld is suspected. Also, a lot can be discovered by a careful exam of the interior cuts and channels as well as with a small machinist's rule straiight edge in the cliplatch channel and oprod cut.

Still, I wouldn't recommend that anyone rely on stuff they read being able to make them good at spotting a problem. Like collectors recognizing originals in a sea of good repros it's that 'eye', and it takes a long time to develop.
 
I'm going to a gun show later, I'll try to see if I can spot any rewelds when I'm not busy haggling with the beef jerky guy.
 
What really impressed me was how the reciever rails looked, . Of course I have seen some bad ones to
 
Tim the Student:"I'm going to a gun show later, I'll try to see if I can spot any rewelds when I'm not busy haggling with the beef jerky guy"

Be careful - there's a lot of phoney beef jerky out there these days and even real stuff can put you into siezures :)
 
Beef Jerky, LOL.

All the negatives we hear about Gun Shows. Don't buy ammo in a worn box, it might be crappy reloads!! Sellers are trying to rip you off with broken guns!! Beware, beware!!

But we have zero problems buying something from a person we don't know with a product in plain bags to put in our mouth. LOL The irony kills me.
 
Anyone have any suggestions on where to pick up surplus .30-06 these days? CMP is out, so my Garand is 200rds away from becoming a collector's piece :(
 
There is always ammo available for the Garand.
Two companies are now making Garand safe ammo, Hornady and Federal.
You can also shoot comercial ammo with a adjustable gas screw
Still surplus available although not at CMP prices
Gunbroker, in various 'for sale' sections on gun forums
http://www.patsreloading.com/patsrel/prices.htm (bottom of page)
CMP is working on getting more Greek HXP
 
My Garand is a weld-up. The previous owner glass-bedded it and added some NM parts. It's about 1.5 to 2 MOA from the bench, for my old eyes.

No reason for a weld-up not to work okay. The loading on the rear of the receiver isn't all that much, compared to the locking lug area up front.
 
"Anyone have any suggestions on where to pick up surplus .30-06 these days? CMP is out, so my Garand is 200rds away from becoming a collector's piece"


I just bought some at the north store. I got 4 cans of the 240 rounds on clips. It is all 1962 head stamped and seems fresh. I think it is a temporary supply problem. There is no way they have gone through- what was it again? Oh yeah, 60 million rounds. I think as soon as they catch up, they will start selling ammo again.
 
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#53 carrothospital
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Join Date: October 19, 2009
Posts: 10


Well, the earliest I'll be able to get down there to the store will be mid November. I don't meet the requirement for marksmanship training yet. I'm taking a concealed carry permit class with range time the first weekend of November, so after that I'll be good.

I'll definitely talk with the staff and get some help in picking something out. I want something that's gonna shoot well! Hopefully they'll still have plenty of ammo then too.

Is it true that it's best to go during the beginning of the week because they restock during the off days? The south store is open from Wednesday to Saturday. I doubt I'd be able to take a whole day off just to drive down and by a rifle...unless I'm lucky. But I'd hate to get there on Saturday and have all the good rifles gone.



1. They restock every day. A couple of times. One OFF one ON.

2. If You have taken a Hunter's Safety course with shooting training You Qualified for that portion.

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