Advice Wanted: Universal M1 Carbine

[LynnKCircle]

OK, here's the scoop. I recently bought a Universal M1 Carbine (don't snicker, please.) It came from a trust-worthy acquaintance who was selling it as a favor for a friend. The friend said it had been bought by his father around 1970 and never fired. It came with the original box, instructions, receipt, and three 15 round GI magazines. The price was the same as being asked for other Universal Carbines on places like www.gunbroker.com, but whereas these seemed from very good to well used, this one looked pristine.

I disassembled it. Sure enough there was absolutely NO powder left in the cracks and crevices where all but the most anal gun cleaners miss. There was no oil or grease, but just a very thin coating of old grease which left just the slightest residue on my hands. All the interior metal was sharp, and when a patch with Ed's Red was run through the barrel it came out as clean as when it went in. The rifling shows no corrosion, even though it really does appear that the gun was simply put into a closet and left for more than thirty years.

All well and good. This is one of the earlier Universals which had only one op rod spring, rather than the later design which had two and which I understand really was a P.O.S.

The ONLY real differences I can see from a true GI gun is that the trigger assembly frame is either aluminum or pot metal and the gas cylinder assembly is brazed onto the barrel rather than being part of the initial forging.

So, here's the question. It looks really great. I am certain I can sell it and fully get my money out -- original price, shipping, and ffl transfer fee for a total of about $395.00. But I might not be able to do that if I shoot it. Certainly I can't if I shoot it and the trigger assembly frame cracks or the brazed gas cylinder holder comes off the barrel.

I've always wanted an M1 Carbine. My choices are to sell it as is, AND sell a couple of other rifles and buy one of the IMI's 888 models for $600.00 (There's no way I can afford $1000 for one of Fulton Armories, regardless of how great they are.) Or I could shoot this one and hope it lasts.

What would you do? All advice is, as always, greatly and gratefully appreciated.

 

[Sunray]

If you shoot it or not the value will be the same. I'd sell it(keep two of the mags), do a bunch of research and buy an issue rifle at a gun show or a store. Or just go shooting. I doubt you'll get any more for one that sounds NIB.

 

[RON in PA]

They did have lousy reps back in the day, not interchangeable with GI parts and if yours broke could you get it fixed? I'd get rid of it, if you can.

 

[Kurt S.]

I bought one exactly like that circa the same era and kept it for about 15 years. It followed me all over the country, bouncing around in pick-up truck beds, cruising in airboats, living in dusty west Texas, humid Houston, and south Florida about a mile from the Atlantic. I put a couple thousand rounds, some of unfamiliar provenance, through it. However, I maintained it well. I sold it sometime around 1984 for something like $65.00. I deeply regret it. As a matter of fact, I wish I had still had the rifle and you had the $65.00.

I believe you have a shooter there. If you're worried about the reputation to the point of it spoiling your fun, though, then sell it, save up the additional couple hundred Washingtons and get that IMI.

 

[TonyRumore]

I have one chambered in 502 Thunder Sabre and it works fine. Of course it's been tuned up, but I don't have any problems with it. It's got the dual recoil springs on it.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp

 

[Sydwaiz]

I have my dad's. won't feed for crap. I want a real one.

 

[Drue]

I got one in the late 1960s and have put about 3000 rounds through it. Works fine.

Drue

 

[jrhead75]

By all means shoot it! It's not a collector, and future buyers will probably be more interested in how it functions than whether or not it's been fired. Just take good care of it, get some fun out of it, then get a real GI one when you can afford it.

 

[Badger Arms]

Compared to a real carbine, it's a worthless piece of crap. It's in the same class with many other guns made today like Lorcin, Hi-Point, etc. Some work, most don't. It's not durable, not well made, and not safe in my opinion. Not that I know it's ever had any safety problems, but it was built to very poor standards of workmanship. If somebody else is looking for one, let them have it and treat yourself to a few Yugo SKS's which are twice the gun at half the price.

 

[liliysdad]

Wow....If its as good as a Hi-Point carbine, Id be all over that deal.

 

[Gordon]

I bought a real early Enforcer pistol this afternoon, another estate sale this one netted me a Winchester model 62 22short carbine in 70-80% and a 95% Enforcer for $300 cash. The Enforcer is the earlier design and with GI mag (30 rounder) shot OK on the indoor range where I bought it. I told them if it jammed I didn't want it! It didn't and I gladly paid. Too bad I can't put an old erzatz Paratrooper stock I have banging around(I would not put that on my cherry 43 Inland) as it would be a mean house gun BTW the .22short Model 62 carbine is sweet and worth $300 by its self.

 

[4v50 Gary]

I"d sell it and move on.

 

[Wildalaska]

What Gary said...sell sell sell

WildthegospellaccordingtoAlaska

 

[Trebor]

Sell it and save your money up for a USGI Carbine. I wouldn't get one of the IMI guns either. The Fulton Armory rebuilt guns are nice, but you can get a good shooter for a lot less than $1,000.

The Planfield clone carbines have a pretty good rep as shooters. They are a clone, but all GI parts interchange and the receivers were supposed to be good. Keep an eye out for one of them as well.

BTW, check you PM.

 

[Mannlicher]

I bought one at JC Penney in about 1970. My son still has it. I have no idea of how many rounds we have fired through this rifle, but it has to be in excess of 5K.
I don't think I ever had a problem, misfeed or other wise. Always used commercial ball ammo, and GI mags. Never broke any parts either.
I have several really minty GI Carbines, RockOla and Inland, but the Universal performs as well as the 'real ones'.

 

[de50ae]

Hello,

I have a Universal Firearms M1 Carbine too. Mine seems to be one of the first models, because it has got on recoil spring and accepts GI parts.

What I am trying to find out for a while is the age of my carbine. By now I habe no information how long Universal built carbines out of GI parts.
My carbine has the serial number 85589. I somebody can tell me the aproximately age of my carbine I would be very happy.

Best wishes de50ae

 

[LynnKCircle]

Well, mine was originally sold in 1979 and probably manufactured sometime after 1977. It has a six-digit serial number while yours has a five, so I would guess yours is far earlier -- probably in the mid 1950's. As such, from all I have heard, it's the next best thing to a GI gun.

Mine shows some of the manufacturing economies which eventually ruined their reputation. While I have one recoil/op-rod spring, I do have a metal handguard (which possibly could be replaced by a GI wooden one, if I ever seen one cheap), an alloy (potmetal?) trigger assembly frame, and a gas piston assembly which is not an integral part of the barrel but is brazed on.
Just out of curiousity -- have you noticed if your gas piston assembly is attached to the underside of the barrel by brazing or welding, or does it seem to be part of the original forging? If you put a magnet on your trigger assembly frame, does it stick?

My concerns about keeping and shooting the gun center around the gas piston assembly and the alloy trigger assembly frame. while the trigger assembly frame really doesn't take much stress, I suspect it could crack over time, and I don't know if it could be replaced by a GI unit. I also worry about the brazing on the gas assembly since it could weaken over time. Those are the reasons I'm asking about yours. People with very early Universals have put thousands of rounds through them over what is now almost 50 years, and say they are still functioning perfectly. People with late Universals generally had to junk their guns before the first 500 rounds were fired through them.

If yours has those same two features as mine, I'd feel a lot better about keeping it and shooting it. If not, then I definitely need to sell it. Right now I have it listed on www.auctionarms.com on auction 5629604, and if I can get my money out, I'll definitely let it go.

(I also have a scout-type rifle at number 5629662 and a Taurus hi cap PT99 at 5629668 in case anyone is interested. There's a phote of my Carbine included here)

 

[longtom4570]

I have one of the IMI carbines and have had no problems with it, only thing i have a problem with is keeping the mags loaded when my son shoots it

 

[LynnKCircle]

I've heard a lot of good things about the IMI and nothing bad. If mine were IMI, I'd be shooting ot now instead of hoping it sells on Auction Arms.

 

[de50ae]

Here are some pictures of my Carbine.

The triggerhousing is of alloy. Is the housing of a real M1 of steel? I watched my carbine for some markings. Barrel and oprating slide are stamped with S.G. The magazine catch with a M and the rear sight with H.I.

Does someone of you know what the stampings mean?

This and the different type of stamping on the receiver brings me to the conclusion that my carbine is even patricularly made out of spare parts. The stamping Universal ... on the rear of the receiver is stronger as the stamping U.S. Carbine 30 Cal M1 on the front. Is this a military stamping?



On the right side of my carbine there ist a stamping ELGRING DUISB. What does that mean?

The scopemounting seems to be factory mounted, because it is stamped “Universal Firearms†and the stock seems to be originally made for a mounting.

 

[LynnKCircle]

Very interesting. According to a 1999 edition of Gun Trader's Guide, you have the deluxe version, based on the fancy stock. My own computer is down right now, so I cannot put a photo on here, but you can see what mine looks like if you go to www.auctionarms.com, auction number 5629604. I figure I'd see what I could get for it and, if I can't get what I want, will keep it. (I also have two other items up for auction, a Taurus PT99 + three extra magazines+Fobus Holster+Ceiner .22 Adapter kit, and a sporterized Russian M44 for which I didn't post the right picturer. Oh well)

 

[de50ae]

If your computer works again, please post a photo out of your book. This would be very interessting to me. How much is my rifle worth according to your book? Is there any information about the time of production of my rifle in your book?

 

[AZ Jeff]

I would not be too worried about the aluminum trigger housing. Many other firearms, notably a lot of Remington products, use die-cast aluminum for the trigger housing.

While not has durable as steel, as some pointed out, the trigger housing is a low-stress part in the M1 carbine, and thus is likely to last as long as the rest of the rifle.

 

[MN_Strelok]

de50ae: I've got the same book, here's the side-by-side comparison photo.

According to the text, the Deluxe model has been in production since 1965 and the Standard since 1964. Price estimates are $250 and $195, respectively. That assumes NRA excellent condition.

 

[de50ae]

Thank you for the information. Step by step I get closer to the age of my carbine Till which year did they manufacture the deluxe version?

I paid 210 EUR (I'm from Germany) for my carbine. So the price was fair. In Germany poor Carbines cost about 350 EUR very good (unused) ones 600 EUR.

Can somebody of you explain me the stamping of some parts of my carbine? Please look posting below.