Aftermath of a non-gun defensive encounter

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ZeeM

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Hello all.
Recently, I was the attempted victim at an ATM. The would-be mugger tried to con me into giving him my card. I raised my voice, caused a bit of a commotion and he buggered off. There was no violence needed to stop the threat - this was a win in any way you look at it. But I was really angry for a long time after that - I feel that he deserved a punch in the nose for trying to rob me.

Any thoughts on what I should or should not have done?
 
One time i was on my way to make a deposit at the ATM. There was a fellow staring me down. He had his hand in his hoodie pocket. It looked like he had a gun. I causally lifted up my shirt. Showing him i was armed too. He crossed the street then. Situation avoided. Glad i was carrying. But it sure got the adrenaline pumping. Best not to resort to violence if it can be avoided.
 
So he didn’t threaten you or speak to you? You don’t know he was armed? You just suspected it?

It sounds like you passed the victim selection test if he intended to rob you. Good job.

I don’t know where you are but you need to be aware that in some jurisdictions you may have violated the law by displaying your weapon.
 
Dont care. Dont talk to me by an atm. Dont approach me. Leave me alone.

If your spider sense is tingling, its fo time. Having a rough aggressive attitude to shady people, has saved my butt plenty of times. If the PD has an issue with anyone clearing leather, deal with it. It's a small issue. Especially at an atm at night.

I'm sick and tired of aggressive pan handlers. Any one of them that asks for anything other than food, becomes my victim. I have no problem turning the tables on them.
 
A good portion of "street-life" involves playing a part - and silent intimidation (or outright intimidation) is one of the tactics you'll encounter occasionally -particularly after dark... I haven't had an incident in a few years now - but my last one involved a drunk hanging out in front of a convenience store at 5Am... As a full time fishing guide down here in south Florida I'm often towing my boat in the very early (or very late hours) from my home to one ramp or other with a stop at a convenience store or tackle shop long before sunup when if feels like you're the only guy around...

Your best bet is always avoidance - the encounter that doesn't occur is what you really want... That said, I've found being ready to get physical in an instant is a pretty fair deterrent on the street most times... The moment that drunk started his spiel "Gimme some money" I faced him, assumed a defensive posture and simply said, in a firm voice... "NO". His next tactic was to draw a small pocket knife and open it while standing about four feet away... My second move was to tell him in no uncertain terms exactly what I was going to do with his knife if he didn't back off - and that was all it took... Encounter ended. It could have escalated from there but most times if someone's going to attack - they don't try the intimidation routine first...

I don't carry a sidearm (and haven't - not once since I retired out of police work almost 26 years ago now..). If I were armed I'd be keeping my distance until it was certain that deadly force might be needed. Street "theater" is just that - mostly posturing but your willingness to defend yourself is a very large part of it - and you have to communicate that to anyone trying to get brave enough to do something stupid.... The idea is to turn your aggressor away and get him (or her) looking for an easier target.

I know that in today's world where armed citizens wouldn't think of being out in public without a sidearm many will think my choice not to carry is being foolish - but if that's so, I'll be the first one to find out... I do keep a firearm close by -but not on my person if at all possible. A carry permit was part of my retirement package - and I've carefully renewed it every five years since because I might one day need to take a job that requires it...
 
Trying to scam/rob someone is very infuriating. I have zero tolerance for such behavior and will likely react negatively to it. Same with "aggressive" pan handlers. Aggression often breeds more aggression- esp. in this age of covid. Stay out of my space.
 
Jeff White said:
...It sounds like you passed the victim selection test if he intended to rob you. Good job....
Click to expand...
This was kind of my thinking.

I routinely use ATMs, in part because I don't trust the cashiers around here. I review the local Affidavits in Support of (Arrest) Warrant, and I've seen too many of them from fast food places, where the cashier: (a) photographed someone's card, front and back; and (b) then emailed the pictures to persons unknown.

I ordinarily use the ATM in the early morning, like between 5 and 6. I only use well-lit and ones that I can reach from my car. That way, I can quickly drive away if need be.
 
I rarely use ATM's and if I do its during regular business hours. Location of the ATM along with the previously time of day are major consideration's.
 
I have changed my ATM use to before noon. And trips into town. All the druggies and dealers are sleeping still. Our area has gone down hill big time. The real estate co's are advertising in the NY and Philly areas. And we are getting the rif-raf from the big city's. Im to old to move and start over. So i changed my ways and beefed up home security. I never thought i would be putting steel bars on my windows. And reversing my doors where they open out. Harder to kick in that way. Reversed the door to my gun/loading room too.
 
If he was trying to "con" you into giving up your card, it doesn't sound like he was a "would-be mugger." Still, you failed to fall into whatever trap he was laying.

If he keeps this up, someone will soon be happy to oblige you and administer that punch in the nose.
 
I was approached in broad daylight while pumping gas by a dude with teardrop tattoos looking for a handout. I game him my serious face and shook my head no and he backed off.

For work, I often wear long khaki Wrangler pants with modest cargo pockets and at another gas station this woman seemed about to speak to me, noticed that my pants looked like what some undercover cops wear, and she clammed up and turned away.
 
ZeeM said:
ut I was really angry for a long time after that
Click to expand...

I've experienced that feeling afterwards, but you're full of adrenaline and you just have to recognize that the anger and jitters and second guessing are just byproducts. You stopped a bad guy without anyone being badly injured, but your body is all amped up for life and death.

Just breath it out and be grateful you're ok and no one was injured.
 
lemaymiami said:
A good portion of "street-life" involves playing a part - and silent intimidation (or outright intimidation) is one of the tactics you'll encounter occasionally -particularly after dark... I haven't had an incident in a few years now - but my last one involved a drunk hanging out in front of a convenience store at 5Am... As a full time fishing guide down here in south Florida I'm often towing my boat in the very early (or very late hours) from my home to one ramp or other with a stop at a convenience store or tackle shop long before sunup when if feels like you're the only guy around...

Your best bet is always avoidance - the encounter that doesn't occur is what you really want... That said, I've found being ready to get physical in an instant is a pretty fair deterrent on the street most times... The moment that drunk started his spiel "Gimme some money" I faced him, assumed a defensive posture and simply said, in a firm voice... "NO". His next tactic was to draw a small pocket knife and open it while standing about four feet away... My second move was to tell him in no uncertain terms exactly what I was going to do with his knife if he didn't back off - and that was all it took... Encounter ended. It could have escalated from there but most times if someone's going to attack - they don't try the intimidation routine first...

I don't carry a sidearm (and haven't - not once since I retired out of police work almost 26 years ago now..). If I were armed I'd be keeping my distance until it was certain that deadly force might be needed. Street "theater" is just that - mostly posturing but your willingness to defend yourself is a very large part of it - and you have to communicate that to anyone trying to get brave enough to do something stupid.... The idea is to turn your aggressor away and get him (or her) looking for an easier target.

I know that in today's world where armed citizens wouldn't think of being out in public without a sidearm many will think my choice not to carry is being foolish - but if that's so, I'll be the first one to find out... I do keep a firearm close by -but not on my person if at all possible. A carry permit was part of my retirement package - and I've carefully renewed it every five years since because I might one day need to take a job that requires it...
Click to expand...

As a fellow retiree I do believe I grasp your reasons for not CCWing.

But I do not agree with it,there is a difference between grasping your reasoning and also not agreeing with it.

I know full well that the instant I even reach for my heater,my life will change forever.

And if I NEED [ and that means exactly that = NEED ] to draw ,regardless of if I am forced to shoot ----- life is no longer what it was.

But my old school belief is a silly one ,I agree.

The old adage is "better to be tried by twelve" etc.

I strongly prefer to find out what will happen WHEN [ not if ] I live.

I now go out of my way to avoid being where,or when a SHTF moment could happen.

And that means staying away from places where you should know that "baby momma drama" has a strong possibility of occurrence.

If I need to spell that out,then I am sorry for you.

Walk along the Savanah Ga. river walk and see the amount of officers ALL NIGHT LONG !.

That is where you go for an evenings stroll and not see a real possibility of an incident.

I have been approached in the recent past in daylight in 'good places',that one would consider "safe".

I will not be smiling,I will FACE THE THREAT,I will NOT ALLOW myself to be approached or circled.

That attitude alone speaks volumes.

Glad the OP was safe and did not need to resort to any other use of force.

But to all who posted NO ATM's outside a bank ----- hell yes.

btw = I never use them.
 
i only and just occasionally use atms located indoors or inside a gated facility, e.g. military base. i get cash-back from a big box store or chain supermarket or post office. i cash a check inside my credit union and keep sufficient cash at home. paying mostly with cash helps me budget. i am home 98% of nights, and those other 2% i have sufficient cash on me. i carry. while i’m really a happy guy most people see my face and think that i’m upset. an inaccurately unfriendly public face is fine by me.
 
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But I was really angry for a long time after that - I feel that he deserved a punch in the nose for trying to rob me.
Click to expand...
It's VERY important to understand that self-defense laws are not about punishment. They aren't designed to insure that criminals get what they deserve. The government reserves the EXCLUSIVE right to punish people.

What that means is that it doesn't matter what a criminal deserves; you absolutely don't have the right to administer punishment. You have the right to defend yourself or others under certain circumstances against persons who are actively committing, or just about to commit certain serious crimes, but that's it. If you don't need to defend yourself or others, you have no right to use force or deadly force. It's for preventing certain serious crimes that are just about to happen and for stopping certain serious crimes while they are still in progress.

Under no circumstances is it legal for you to use force or deadly force against someone solely because you feel they deserve it.

You did the right thing.
 
ZeeM said:
Hello all.
Recently, I was the attempted victim at an ATM. The would-be mugger tried to con me into giving him my card. I raised my voice, caused a bit of a commotion and he buggered off. There was no violence needed to stop the threat - this was a win in any way you look at it. But I was really angry for a long time after that - I feel that he deserved a punch in the nose for trying to rob me.

Any thoughts on what I should or should not have done?
Click to expand...

Feel differently, about punching noses, next time. Anger can complicate an otherwise good defensive plan.
 
As a teen I was spit on by a crazy homeless person after walking to the subway from my girlfriends place. I was passing him by and out of nowhere he screamed something along the lines of "f*&^ you whiteboy" and spit on me. I put up my hands assuming this was only the beginning of the altercation. Thankfully he backed off and I went on my way.

I could have put my hands on him. I was young and he was an underweight 40 something year old crack head. I really wanted to make him kiss the pavement . . . I'm relatively certain I could have take him although one never knows with drug users, but would it be worth it? Would I be justified?

To me (the older more mature wiser me), violence is only justified in response to violence or aggression. If the threat has passed so too has the need or justification for violence. That and do you know how dirty the human mouth is? A punch to the face sounds great until you cut your hand on his teeth and end up with a nasty infection.

You used the minimal amount of force/aggression to deter an individual from robbing you. You did so without actually having to physically interact with the guy. You did the right thing. It doesn't lesson ones impulse or wish to punch the f*$%er in the face, but self control is what distinguishes us from the animals.
 
It's called "command voice." Firm, louder than normal (but not screaming), assertive commands with facial expression and body language to back it up. Most human communication is body language followed by voice tone.

Last time I used it was on the most obnoxious heroin-damaged jail bird you could imagine. Lady was clearly newly-released from jail bumming money and / or rides at a gas station. (Jail is literally across the street). I put out my strong hand, pointing at her, with weak hand on pepper spray (clipped to pocket). "DO NOT COME ANY CLOSER. STEP BACK. (and just for fun) WE HAVE TO SOCIAL DISTANCE DON'T YOU KNOW?"

She stepped back, apologized, then asked for a ride even though she had just seconds before been threatening me by accusing me of being some guy she called by name.

Had she continued I'd have hosed her down with Sabre Red while backing up and deciding what was next. I'd have pressed charges and she'd go right back across the street. Surely she's in jail again now or dead, there are only two outcomes for such lowlifes.

I read many years ago in Reader's Digest to do this. "Look them in the eye, then down to their feet and back to their eyes, and then smile." The author had interviewed a mugger who was quoted as saying "anyone that does you that way you better not mess with."

I've since read that even small stature women that stare would-be attackers down intimidate them more than a larger even physically fit man that won't make eye contact.

And yes, if you can avoid trouble do so.

Last week I was hauling a heavy load and pulled over to let backed up traffic pass. One guy leaned out the passenger side of a flat bed to flick me off. That's the first middle finger I've gotten in years! I did not react.

On up the road I wanted to stop at a gas station for a candy bar (that station has white chocolate M&M's!) but I noticed the same flatbed pulling in there. I DID NOT STOP.

It wasn't worth the risk of having to shoot two rednecks if they recognized my truck and started something.

Avoidance. You can get candy at the next gas station.
 
Father Goose said:
Last week I was hauling a heavy load and pulled over to let backed up traffic pass. One guy leaned out the passenger side of a flat bed to flick me off. That's the first middle finger I've gotten in years! I did not react.

On up the road I wanted to stop at a gas station for a candy bar (that station has white chocolate M&M's!) but I noticed the same flatbed pulling in there. I DID NOT STOP.
Click to expand...

We get the finger pretty often with our wide, slow machinery. Our equipment is really too wide for township roads, we have to use the highway quite often. You gotta just let it go. #1 driver.

Its been my experience that the weirdos come out at night. When we're traveling, I often drive at night to avoid traffic and let the passengers sleep through part of the trip. You gottabe on your toes when you stop. I dont have a problem exposing the grip of my holstered pistol outside my tshirt.
 
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