I've made a habit of avoiding any contact with the grip safety when re-holstering either my XD or my 1911. This is a good reminder to maintain that habit.
Agents accidentally shot while gun being holstered
- Thread starter Cavalier Knight
- Start date
- Status
SSN Vet
Member
And I suppose you could never have an accident! You probably do not know the marshal invloved, probably do not know the circumstances of the shooting, most likely do not know if he is a bragging fool like someone from another fed agency who said he was the only one qualified..., and so on. So why on earth, before knowing if the guy is a big mouth, who brags about being a super gun guru, would you bring that up?
From those to whom more is given, more is expected; that's all. LEOs, the Bradys, even the NRA, pretty much everyone that says anything on it says that LEOs are better qualified to own and handle a firearm than the rest of us. So, if that is true, then the shame, embarrassment, or repercussions of an ND from a LEO should be greater.
Oh, and for the guy who said that maybe the LEO was chambering a round - that's not what the article said; the article said he was holstering. Sounds more like a falling finger than a falling hammer.
Do you know that this accidental discharge (because indeed it was not PURPOSEFUL) was actually also a negligent discharge or are you guessing? I would guess it was due to some negligence, but it would only be a guess and I have seen the video of it and could not tell the cause with any certainty. If you are certain is was due to negligence, do you know who was negligent? If so please clue me in as to the specific facts; if not, why not wait until the facts come out. I do not say this because he is a federal marshal, I would AND HAVE repeatedly said it for those who are not LEOs too. Wait for the facts before damning someone.
All the best,
Glenn B
I'd heard plenty about how Glocks were dangerous due to their safety-free nature, and didn't really have any interest in them. I'd never even handled one until last Wednesday, when my friend who carries a Glock 19 (and swears by it) let me monkey about with it for 20 minutes or so. I guess I can see the appeal to them, and hey, Rule #3 should be the only safety you need.
+1
Because anytime anyone has a non-intentional discharge that strikes a person that they did not intend to strike (including themselves) they have violated at least 2 of the 4 rules, more probably 3 of the 4. I would call that negligent.
Not necessarily so, as I said, I saw the video. The gun apparently was not pointed in an unsafe direction that anyone here would think was unsafe, because it was apaprently going into or part way in the holster when it fired (but that is only my best estimate after seeing the video from the off side). The bullet might have deflected off of the guy's leg who was holstering it, then hit the second guy who was behind him - maybe a ricochet or deflection off of the floor. Pointing it into the hoster is not usually considered unsafe. If the finger was not on the trigger and it was caused by clothing or a faulty holster there goes another of your has to be this way ideas. Wait for the facts to come out, you are rushing to judgement on something here.
I again ask any of you - give me the specifics of what happened that indicate there was negligence and that there was a violation of the so called 4 rules of gun safety. You cannot be specific without knowing the actual facts, can you? I know I saw the video, and I cannot be sure of exactly what happened - so are you telling me you know better or are you just guessing? Sure you could be right, but it is still supposition at best.
If I find out I am at liberty to post the video, I wil do so; but something tells me that could be highly frowned upon at my job - which I do not want to lose just to show you a video to make my point. Any way, the facts will come out sooner or later. It could well have been a finger on the trigger, or could well have been some other factor. I too would guess the nose piker was the cause, but as I said I saw the video and cannot be certain. If you don't want to wait for the fact, okay by me. As for me, I'll wait. I just pefer being factual, I guess it comes with my LE job and my not wanting to arrest folks based upon guesswork, maybe this or maybe that, or it has got to be this way it cannot possibly be any other way kind of thinking. After all, isn't that the kind of thing that many on these forums fault overzealous cops for doing - rushing to juedgement on less than the facts!
All the best,
GB
Off-topic for a shake...
Seems to me that since the Glock has kinda earned a rep for discharging when being reholstered...either by the wearer inadvertently pulling the trigger as the gun settles in, or an article of clothing or part of the holster snagging on it...that the thinking man would place his fingertip behind the trigger to reholster the pistol and thus have an extra margin of no-bang.
That might be too simple, though...
Seems to me that since the Glock has kinda earned a rep for discharging when being reholstered...either by the wearer inadvertently pulling the trigger as the gun settles in, or an article of clothing or part of the holster snagging on it...that the thinking man would place his fingertip behind the trigger to reholster the pistol and thus have an extra margin of no-bang.
That might be too simple, though...
Actually I settle for placing my trigger finger along the side of the slide, and making sure my holster is clear, and having that finger point the gun into the holster as it should when reholstering. Have you ever tried to reholster a gun with your finger behind the trigger, then suddenly have to draw it with your finger there to reface a threat you thought had stopped but was again coming at you (or a secondary threat you had not seen and who waited for you to holster before firing at you). Maybe that is just complex to imagine, but I keep my finger where it belongs, and that is not behind the trigger.
All the best,
Glenn B
All the best,
Glenn B
I can give ya one, and I ain't seen the video.
Pulling the trigger is what fires the gun. If you want it to fire, pull the trigger. If you don't...don't.
SEE to it that the trigger doesn't get pulled. Be extra careful with pistols that have light triggers and no mechanical device to block their rearward movement. If you...speaking generally, and not personally...cause the trigger to be pulled by your finger or by a safety strap or by an article of clothing while reholstering...you really, really need to S-L-O-W D-O-W-N and take a second to T-H-I-N-K...about what you're doing.
There were certain holsters that were manufactured that allowed the thumb tab to get inside the trigger guard, thus causing accidental discharges as guns were holstered. Finger never touched the trigger. It happened several times a few or several years back. The thumb tab was made too narrow, and often curved into the holster, and then got inside the trigger guard.
Remington rifles, put on safe, rifle goes bang - no one touched the trigger. Remington knew about the fault for years before they fixed it.
Your has to be this way just ain't so in EVERY case. Sure it could have been in this one, again I ask wait for the facts. Why are you so eager to condemn when you could just as well wait for factual evidence to come out.
All the best,
Glenn B
Remington rifles, put on safe, rifle goes bang - no one touched the trigger. Remington knew about the fault for years before they fixed it.
Your has to be this way just ain't so in EVERY case. Sure it could have been in this one, again I ask wait for the facts. Why are you so eager to condemn when you could just as well wait for factual evidence to come out.
All the best,
Glenn B
We were always trained in the military to remove the index finger from the side of the firearm and out along the holster and far away from the trigger when holstering. Accidents do indeed happen - its best to avoid them however....
This makes me think of the show "Cold Case". They have a security door like an airlock with tiny little lockers in it. When they come in from the street, they have to unholster their weapon and place it in the locker before they are admitted into the office area. Every time I see that I shake my head. First, that they trust each other so little that they feel the need to disarm fellow officers sitting at their desk. Second, I've never, ever heard of a gun discharging while it is properly holstered. I have however heard many stories of guns discharging while BEING holstered or unholstered. It's a feel good measure that in fact, increases the risk for anyone. Of course, it's just a TV show.
I've never owned a Glock, so I'm not qualified to really approve or disapprove of them, but what I like about my XD is that when holstering, I can place my thumb on the rear sight, which results in me releasing the grip safety. This prevents loose clothing or anything else near the trigger from causing a discharge.
I've never owned a Glock, so I'm not qualified to really approve or disapprove of them, but what I like about my XD is that when holstering, I can place my thumb on the rear sight, which results in me releasing the grip safety. This prevents loose clothing or anything else near the trigger from causing a discharge.
Things happen on the street that can't be forseen...but this guy was in a courtroom. Many of the AD/UD/NDs that occur with the design that's obviously in question generally happen in non-threatening environs anyway. Training rooms...Bedrooms...Courtrooms...You get the picture.
If you reholster, and suddenly have to draw again, I'd tend to think that it wouldn't take you any longer to find the front of the trigger from between the rear of the trigger and the trigger guard than it would take to find it from alongside the gun anyway, especially if you only use the fingertip to block the trigger. It's a simple thing. The key to success is, of course...dry practice. As commonplace as these things seem to be getting, it makes sense to install a little safe habit because we don't have to face secondary threats nearly as often as we reholster guns. The effort that it would take to learn the drill is a small price to pay to prevent shooting oneself in the leg. One gives you a small callus on your fingertip, at worst. The other can put you on disability...or in the ground.
Let us henceforth call this "The Glock Finger Safety."
Spread the word. The leg you save could be...well..anybody's.
It was a negligent discharge. The officer had an obligation to make sure his weapon did not discharge. He didn't live up to that obligation. Plain and simple. If it was a design flaw in his gun, he had an obligation to understand those design limitations and adjust his weapon handling accordingly. While there are rare unintended discharges, whether you want to call them negligent or accidental, from any gun, you don't see it happening to such a degree that you can point to a design flaw in the gun such that the gun fires itself. Guns don't fire themselves. Unless you believe that the gun was going to fire whether or not the officer involved was holstering at that moment.
That's not an accidental discharge. That's a negligent discharge for which the negligent gun handler blames someone else even though he failed to make sure there were no obstructions before holstering his gun and failed to understand his equipment before using it.
CountGlockula
Member
I just hope the officers are okay. I remember an article posted here about a police officer that died from an accidental discharge while holstering his pistol to go to work a few months ago. Happened in Maine I think & believe in that case it was a S & W. Every time I hear about something like this it does make me appreciate the grip safety on my XD though.
dalepres remarked,
The first part of your statement proves my point that too many people have been immersed in the idea that LEOs are better qualified --including "the Bradys, the NRA, and pretty much everyone..."
"So if that is true...." is simply not true. In my opinion.
Hey, Weezy, that pic you put up of the revolauto was pretty good! LOL!
The first part of your statement proves my point that too many people have been immersed in the idea that LEOs are better qualified --including "the Bradys, the NRA, and pretty much everyone..."
"So if that is true...." is simply not true. In my opinion.
Hey, Weezy, that pic you put up of the revolauto was pretty good! LOL!
Then we shouldn't hold them to a higher standard... and we shouldn't give them more access to weapons. We should, however, cooperate when they take reports after an incident because that is what we hired them to do.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked