Aimpoint vs. ACOG for AR-15

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For the uses you described in your OP, Aimpoint. No question, no doubt. If you're going to be unloading that much money on a piece of equipment, it may as well be the piece that's best-suited to the uses you require.

Is this the best of both worlds, an ACOG with a Red Dot on top?

You're shooting out to 200 yards, not performing brain surgery. There is no "best of both worlds." The ACOG can do it. The Aimpoint, at that range, can do it better.
 
While I haven't followed this thread that closely, why is an EOTech with flip to side magnifier not on your short list?

I've got a couple of ARs-one with the EOTech 557/4x Multiplier and one with TAO1 ACOG. Couldn't tell ya which one I like better, but since most of my shooting is done on the range/100 yards and out, I really like the ACOG (has the red crosshair reticle).
 
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I have used both quite a bit. For me, I think I like the Aimpoint better. Mostly because the most likely engagement ranges are going to be < 25 yards. For ranges past 25 yards, the ACOG wins easily.
 
Its all what you want. For my shooting the magnification is what I'm looking for. I'm not shooting at man sized targets at 200 yards though. For that I don't think a red dot would be a hindrance at all. It all depends what you are shooting at. I'm not sure if the magnifier behind the aimpoint would be better or not though. It certainly gives more flexibility.
 
For ranges past 25 yards, the ACOG wins easily.

I don't know that it's quite that simple. I've seen brand new Soldiers who may have qualified once or twice with an M16A2 pick up an Aimpoint, and in the course of a day zero it and have no problem smacking targets at 300m. These are people with less than 200 total rounds downrange in their entire life on every weapon they've every fired. So no, the ACOG doesn't "win easily" past 25m.
 
For the ACOGS:

The TA31F(4x) has a 1.5" eye relief and the TA11F(3.5X) has 2.4" eye relief. Anyone encounter a problem with the TA31F having too short of an eye relief? The TA11 has a slightly larger objective 35mm vs 32mm, any real difference between the two?

Thanks
 
OK, I've used the Aimpoint, the Eotech and several versions of the ACOG (including the TA31DOC, which is basically identical to the TA31TRD).

I use my optics as general purpose, meaning I use them for everything from 6" plates at 300yds to NRA targets at 600yds, to firing multiple shots on multiple targets while moving at under 15yds.

My primary optic is the TA11. I use that because when I bought it, the TA11F was not widely available; but the chevron is probably a bit handier than the donut.

The benefits of the TA11 is that it has a longer eye relief and a larger exit pupil than the TA31 - this makes it easier to get good hits during dynamic shooting close in and use some non-traditional positions; but the TA11 is still slower than the Aimpoint or Eotech (up to a second slower for me on a 6-shot string of shooting while moving).

The Aimpoint really shines when it comes to shooting while moving or reflexive shooting at close, moving targets and is tough to beat for that purpose. At under 30-50yds, it will run with the TA11 and beat it consistently.

If you plan to shoot 3-gun (or home-defense, LE, or most practical shooting scenarios), then the Aimpoint will generally do better because most of those scenarios will be under 100yds and what little they give up in precision at those distances, they will make up for speed.

The one exception is when we do a "jungle run" with poppers spread out amongst the brush and trees. Even spray-painted whites, the poppers can be tough to see with the naked eye. The ACOG's magnification will let you tell the popper from a light colored tree trunk in those conditions.

Now at first the TRD sounds like the best of both worlds; but in actual practice, the cheek weld for the dot sight is way higher than the cheek weld for the ACOG. Which means if you have any kind of muscle memory built up on using a good cheek weld (and you had better have if you plan to be good with irons or any magnified sight), you end up using the magnified view under stress anyway because your cheek weld gives you the ACOG first and then you go "O yeah, I have to raise my head."

Any of the sights you are talking about is capable of doing anything from 0-300m. They just have different areas where they excel.

One thing I don't have much time with is red dot/magnifier combos, so I can't comment much on those. The few I've seen haven't impressed me in terms of glass and clarity. I also am not crazy about magnifying a 4MOA dot; but they do serve the main purpose of a magnified optic (target ID and acquisition).

Personally, if I was doing it all over again today and picking a new optic, I'd probably be looking at a variable scope. At 1x, they are almost as fast as the red dots. At 4x, they can do what the ACOGs can optically; but they aren't quite as rugged.

If I needed ACOG-ruggedness, I would probably look at the TA33 - less than half the size of the TA11; but 90% of the performance. The TA31 is a great optic; but for my purposes it sacrifices more capability at the ranges where most of my shooting happens for longer range ability.

Otherwise, for a general purpose rifle, some flavor of Aimpoint is hard to beat - especially if movement (yours or the targets) is part of the equation.

Zak Smith has an excellent article on this and I think that article and some other good reads on the subject can be found in the "Rifle Forum Reading Library"
 
I don't know that it's quite that simple. I've seen brand new Soldiers who may have qualified once or twice with an M16A2 pick up an Aimpoint, and in the course of a day zero it and have no problem smacking targets at 300m. These are people with less than 200 total rounds downrange in their entire life on every weapon they've every fired. So no, the ACOG doesn't "win easily" past 25m.

Not sure why you are arguing about this. I never said that the Aimpoint was useless past 25 yards. I simply said that the ACOG's are better. Yes, it is fairly simple.
 
I simply said that the ACOG's are better. Yes, it is fairly simple.

No, it's definitely NOT that simple. There are certain situations where each optic shines..so to speak. It's not as cut and dried as you make it out to be.

The fact you are using 25M as a benchmark distance to signify an advantage between optics is silly. Heck the M9 pistol range goes out to 25M.
 
No, it's definitely NOT that simple. There are certain situations where each optic shines..so to speak. It's not as cut and dried as you make it out to be.

The fact you are using 25M as a benchmark distance to signify an advantage between optics is silly. Heck the M9 pistol range goes out to 25M.

Well, I'm convinced. :rolleyes:

I never said that there was a huge difference at 25 yards. I was speaking generally, and I still stand by my claim.

Look, both optics are excellent. I prefer a red dot for most applications, but the ACOG is an excellent optic. At 25 yards, there may not be a huge difference. the difference starts to grow as you get past that range though and that is what I was saying in the first place.

That is not to say that someone with an Aimpoint cannot shoot good groups at 200 yards. I never said that. However, I am positive that with all things being equal, you can shoot a better group with an ACOG at greater distances.
 
Ok, does anyone have experience with the TA31TRD with the Doctor Red Dot on top? Is this the best of both worlds, an ACOG with a Red Dot on top?


That is what I have on my AR and I love it. The red dot on top is great for 75 yards and under and then the ACOG is great beyond that. If you don't like the crosshair's then you can always buy a different ACOG and get the mount to put the Red dot on the ACOG and buy it all separately.
 
The Aimpoint only has a 2 MOA dot. That means the dot is about softball-sized at 200 yards and maybe bowling ball sized at 300 yards. I've shot targets at 300 yards with a Kobra reflex sight on my AK and with an Aimpoint on a friend's Bushmaster Modular Carbine. Neither presented much in the way of difficulty. With the Aimpoint, I'd say you can engage out to as far as you can distinguish a target. If your rifle is set up like the military rifles, it will be zeroed at 300 yards, which means you won't even have to worry about compensating for drop until after that range. The Aimpoint is durable, reliable, easy to use, with excellent battery life. The main limitations are those presented by your eye in terms of identifying targets under less than ideal conditions.

This is where the ACOG comes in. The ACOG is an excellent battle sight. While not quite as fast as the Aimpoint, it can be very fast with practice. And the models with the reflex sights attached to them present an interesting option as well. The ACOG doesn't require batteries. The dual-illumination systems is the cat's meow. The optic is so durable, I never saw a Marine break one. The 4x magnification comes in handy when you have to shoot at extended distances, obviously, but also under much closer distances where the target may be moving around back in a room behind a window and/or only exposing small parts of his body to fire. Or when you have targets among civilians, ect. The RCO gives you these capabilities, which is why it has been called the greatest increase in firepower available to the Marine since the inception of the Garand. The ACOG will help you get on target faster and more accurately at every range beyond arm's reach. And the BDC system really isn't cluttered or complicated. Once properly zeroed, the upside-down Christmas tree part of the reticule is used to estimate range and compensate for bullet drop of the M855 62 gr ball round. The operator simply places the stadia line the fits across the shoulders of the target on the target and fires. In practice, it couldn't be more simple, intuitive, or easy to use, and it is effective. Hitting pop-up Ivans from 600+ yards takes remarkably little practice.

So while the Aimpoint will probably be effective out to at least 300 yards, I would recommend you get the ACOG, unless the vast majority of your shooting is going to be within 50 yards.
 
Rocky, I'm not trying to convince you of anything. I'm jis sayin' per the OP that 200 yds and below is where the Aimpoint can shine. And it'll do as well as the man behind it to 300 and beyond. No one's saying that either optic can't perform the task at hand - I just think the Aimpoint will do it faster at closer distances; that's been my experience from training with both, seeing shooters from novice to seasoned use both, and talking to guys that have used each to actually kill people overseas. May I ask why it is you think the ACOG will "win easily" over the Aimpoint at 35 meters? 50? 100?

I personally think that the ACOG is the better overall optic, and what I would want on my rifle and the rifles of my guys. I'm pushing to get a handful for us right now before we take off to Iraqistan this fall. However, the OP didn't ask what we liked better - he wanted to know which would be a better tool for hitting targets w/i 200 yards.
 
I think I would really like a 16A4 with an Acog. Saw some of those over here, I bet that would be pretty handy for distance shooting.
 
It is very much wickedsprint. Thats how my DMR was set up in 05. It had a match barrel and trigger as well. It was very accurate and my range was easily extended to 600 meters.

For the ranges the OP was saying I would use the ACOG. Only because I like them a lot. The Aimpoint will easily shoot good groups at 200 or less, but I think the ACOG will shoot smaller groups because of the magnification.

Pick whichever one you like better. The Aimpoint will get you on target faster at close range and the ACOG will give you more accuracy at longer ranges.
 
Surprised that in all of this I haven't seen mention of the fact that the Eotech dot is 1 moa. The smallest Aimpoint is 2 moa as far as I know.
In the comparison of ACOG and any dot sight (this is really an apples and oranges false comparison), if your objective is precision shooting out to 200 meters or so you will be much better served by that 1 moa dot. If your rifle will shoot, sight it so the bullets fall under that 1" dot at 100m and you will have a lethal combination to 200 and beyond.
If you need very high resolution and better really poor light performance, you need a scope, ACOG or somebody else's.
As for the anti-Eotech sentiments that seem to be around, check what's most often on the rails of those who take these things to work and have a choice.
 
As for the anti-Eotech sentiments that seem to be around, check what's most often on the rails of those who take these things to work and have a choice.
The armorer at work has his choice of eotech, acog, and Aimpoint. Guess which one is on his rifle? The Aimpoint.
 
In 05 the M68 held up a lot better than the Eotechs. Plus the batteries last much much longer and you can turn it on and off just by feel. I think the Eotech is popular because its cheaper. Its a good red dot for sure, but I think the Aimpoint is more robust.
 
As for the anti-Eotech sentiments that seem to be around, check what's most often on the rails of those who take these things to work and have a choice.
Surely you jest...

The Aimpoint M2 is designated as the military M68. Does the EOTech even have a military designation?

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