Air Taser vs. Handgun

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NickBallard

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I heard somewhere that an air taser has a quicker and higher incapacitation rate than a 9mm handgun, with the exception of the perfectly placed bullet. Some say that air tasers are good because if you don't get them in a vital organ, they'll drop quicker than from a 9mm (even though only for 5 minutes, but enough time to get away). Has anyone heard anything about this?

What sort of situations would one be better than the other if you're not law enforcement?

I found some interesting videos of air taser in real life:
http://www.defenseproducts101.com/taser_video.html
 
Tasers have gotten better, but they're still not guaranteed to stop. You also only get one shot. If there's more than one guy, if you miss, or if the first shot doesn't work, you're up poop creek without a paddle.
 
The only time when I believe one should carry a Taser and not a sidearm, is if they can't legally carry a handgun but a Taser is legal.
 
Tasers make sense as a continuum of force option, which implies a 10 lb bat belt full of other options, such as a baton, a can of OC spray, a handgun, and a long gun in the trunk.

I don't think tasers make sense without something to fall back on.
 
The fact that a Taser is good for one shot is the major turn-off to me.

The new technology, which operates on the efferent nervous system rather than just the afferent nervous system (scrambles function rather than just causing pain), is pretty good. I have little doubt that a poorly-aimed Taser that hits the body will be a much better stopper than a poorly-aimed 9mm.

But the 9mm can be fired several more times. Even a tiny one is good for 6 or 7 shots.

I have a few muzzleloading guns. I'd feel pretty weird using one for defense; if I miss, the gun becomes a short club. In the olden days, people often carried several pistols, as well as edged weapons, when traveling in dangerous places.

A 10-shot Taser, though, would be something I would carry for self-defense.
 
Have you ever seen a video...

...of a Taser being used?

The test victims go down in a heap, sure. but they bounce back up in a few seconds also. So, let's say you just Tasered a BG in your kitchen. What are you going to do do after he shakes off the effects of being shocked? He's not going to be in any better of a mood than he was before.
 
answerguy said:
The test victims go down in a heap, sure. but they bounce back up in a few seconds also. So, let's say you just Tasered a BG in your kitchen. What are you going to do do after he shakes off the effects of being shocked? He's not going to be in any better of a mood than he was before.
Click to expand...

The civilian versions of the Air Taser shock for 30 seconds, with the capability of repeat shockings. While the guy is twitching on the ground, you set the taser on the ground and get the hell out of Dodge (and call for help).

It is my understanding that the company will give you a free replacement taser if you used it in self defense and provide a copy of the police report.
 
I wasn't thinking in my kitchen. I was thinking outdoors, away from the house. In my kitchen, I want something that will prevent a further attack on my family, and that doesn't mean 30 seconds. 30 seconds is enough to get away safely outdoors, though.

Why would you put the Taser down? Does it keep shocking him every 15-30 seconds or so?

I was thinking I'd reload.
 
The taser is attached to the BG via probes. Try and run away with the taser still in your hand and you'll only succeed in yanking out the probes and stopping the shock. BTW, the air taser can also be used as a (very powerful) stungun if you do manage to rip out the probes of the BG's hide.

IIRC, the air taser has a shock duration of 8 seconds. Each pull of the trigger adds another 8 seconds to the shock.

Of course if your kitchen has a phone in it, all you'd need to do is call for help and pull the trigger on the taser every couple of seconds. :evil:

If a taser is all you have, make the most of it.
 
Isn't that why they recommend you put the taser down and go for help?

A taser isn't a 100% stop magical weapon. Neither is a firearm. But you gotta work with what you have.

If you were in your kitchen, I suppose you could chop off the BG's arms and legs with a cleaver while he's twitching around on the ground. Then when the taser runs out of juice, he will be incapable of attacking you. ;)
 
Let's assume, for the sake of argument, that we're talking about real-deal Tasers, not some alternative or Stun-Gun type thingy.

1. Tasers have a one-shot capability, unless you carry multiple cartridges. Even if you DO carry multiple cartridges, you have to analyze the failure to stop, recognize the solution, remove the used cartridge, insert the new cartridge, aim and cycle the weapon. Want to try that in the midst of a Tueller Drill? Me neither.

2. Tasers have an unacceptably high malfunction rate for use as a primary weapon. It's not horrible, but it is bad enough. If it was a handgun failing like that, you'd sell it. Hangfires are particularly prevalent.

3. Nothing is a 100% one shot stop, and neither is the Taser. The beauty of a handgun is that if the first round fails to stop, you have several more on tap. If the Taser fails to stop...you can...throw it at him. Actually, you can drive-stun him (use it like a stun gun), but that is decidedly unfun, and removes the Taser's two biggest advantages, range and muscular incapacitation. A TASER IN "STUN GUN" MODE IS ONLY PAINFUL...IT DOES NOT LOCK UP THE SUSPECT'S MUSCLES.

4. The Taser is fragile. Battery packs get knocked loose. Cartridges get broken and disgorge their guts.

5. The civilian versions cycle for a longer period of time than the LE versions. You're supposed to zap the BG and run like a scalded monkey. If, however, you are still in the area as soon as the cycle is up, lookout. He is no longer incapacitated (AT ALL), and will be more than a little annoyed with you. a 30-second (IIRC) head start is a pretty good advantage, though...and to tell you the truth, if I rode a taser for 30 seconds, I'd just want to curl up and die in peace. :uhoh: You can keep your wallet.

It bears repeating, though; electricity works like flipping a switch. ON, and he is incapacitated (assuming you got a good hit and he's not one of the very few people who are resistant to the Taser). OFF, and he is back to 100% (at least physically). It is that fast. When that thing stops, the game is back on.

6. The Taser is designed to be used by LE in a situation where lethal force is NOT indicated...OR, in a situation where lethal force is indicated, but there is an opportunity to use a less-lethal tool. That "opportunity" implies not only the time to use it, but also the resources on hand to use it safely. Those resources include one or more other officers with lethal-force cover. If the Taser fails and the BG presents a threat, he gets shot.

The Taser has been marketed to civilian market as an alternative to a handgun, and IMO it is not a very good one. If lethal force is not authorized, you probably should not be Tasering the guy. If lethal force IS authorized, you should certainly be shooting him. It might be better than any other legal option for some areas (*cough*NYC, DC*cough*), but if I had the choice of a handgun or a Taser at my hip, I'm picking the handgun. But, as was said, a Taser in hand beats harsh language. If it is the only choice you have, go for it. It is a great, if imperfect, tool.

Mike
 
Three Questions about Tasers

1. If you taser someone who's attacking you, would it be legal to then pepper spray him after he's tasered so that he won't come after you in 30 seconds? Would the law see that as reasonable self-defense or excessive force?

2. I've heard about some people being sued for shooting people when someone pulled out a knife or baseball bat and said that they were going to hurt the person. The person shot the knife holding attacker saying he could have died. The prosecuting attorney told the jury, "He just held a knife for goodness sake! What the defendant did was stupid, but people do stupid things all the time." How do you get around something like that?

3. What my vision of weapons would be: pepper spray if someone's threatening me or multiple assailants, taser for instant stopping power (if someone's coming at me with something, or if they have nothing and I don't want to wait 3 seconds for OC to kick in), and at least a semi-automatic handgun for those who have a gun or even pull one out to threaten. I don't know, maybe my ideal needs to be changed.
 
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and a semi or fully-automatic handgun for those who have a gun or even pull one out to threaten. I don't know, maybe my ideal needs to be changed.
Click to expand...

Well, you might want to change the part about wanting a fully automatic handgun. They are rare to start with and hard to get permits for.
 
1. No idea. I would venture to say you're entering uncharted territory as far as case law goes.

2. A good lawyer.

3. Well, if you stick with the idea that you use force only when you must you could probably get away with just the handgun and mace. Three different levels of force is probably overkill. How much belt space do you have, anyway?

Mike
 
Coronach, well I have just a belt. It's probably 32". I like having pepper spray in one of my pockets though, because I feel I can draw it faster and have it concealed easier it I have to put my hand on it. I haven't used it on humans, but have with a lot of dogs. How fast I can pull my OC out is important to me because sometimes I go into areas where dogs sometimes just come out of the bushes. I hate the twisty locks and sneaky pen designs, but I like the flip tops for pepper spray. I don't have a taser or handgun, but would like to get one.
 
Nick a little suggestion, I'd go take some courses in fighting with a gun, and probally boxing. Boxing isn't the greatest from a pure fighting standpoint but learning to box will teach you how to take a hit and keep coming.

So far all the questions you've asked have been about gear. That's the least important question. Focus on stead to getting to the point where your mindset is 1000%. Once you've got your mindset right, a lot of these gear questions will answer themselves. Once your mindset is right you'll relize that the gear isn't any where close to the most important part of the equation. It's what _you_ do.

I've been through a lot of stages so far along my journey from worring about what gun and caliber is the best. To getting hung up on lot's of little things, to right now relizing that gear is an important peice of the equation, but it's only to be addressed after you have your mindset, tactics, and skills required to make it matter.

A few thoughts from other people:

This is the law:
The purpose of fighting is to win.
There is no possible victory in defense.
The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental.

-- John Steinbeck

"Man fights with his mind. His hands and his weapons are simply extensions of his will."

--Jeff Cooper


To fight and conquer in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy with no fight at all, that's the highest skill.
-- Sun Tsu


Generally speaking, the Way of the warrior is resolute acceptance of death.
--Miyamoto Musashi
 
The need for gear, and limit

I've heard that the best defense is first recognizing early warning signs and getting away beforehand. But if you do have to face someone, I've heard quite a few say that having a good weapon is better than being good in empty-hand techniques or martial arts, because when a person with a weapon is put with someone with good empty-hand techniques, most martial artists say that the person with the weapon has the advantage even if it's against someone who's good with empty-hand techniques. But they also say that weapon availability and skill is not all that you need, because if someone's too close, being able to get some breathing room is necessary or even a gun or knife won't work and will just be a distraction.
 
You proved my point.

You are the weapon, everything else is just tools.

Is a good gun nice to have, damn right. Are H2H skills needed, damn skippy. Using a knife, yep good to know that too.

You can't look at anything as the beginning and the end. You need to learn how to do everything well, and your training should be intergrated combining all your skills. Otherwise you aren't learning how to fight, you are simply learning how to shoot.
 
But they also say that weapon availability and skill is not all that you need, because if someone's too close, being able to get some breathing room is necessary or even a gun or knife won't work and will just be a distraction.
Click to expand...

Furthermore, a gun and knife will work up close and can very defaintly be more than a distraction, but you have to train that distance inteveral. You need to train in fight weapons access, shooting from retention, and blade methods. Defaintly do not underrate the blade in the bad breath, clinch distances it can be a very formidable weapon.
 
Air Tasers work on body armor

I saw another thread in here that was talking about the problem of many crooks using body armor. Many sources say that air tasers work on body armor, because the air taser doesn't rely on impact, but electrical current which will penetrate so many inches of clothes and doesn't need to have the barbs pierce the clothes. They can hook onto the clothes and jump into the body to make it to the other probe. I was wondering if that could be one reason to have an air taser along with a handgun? I'm non LEO, but who knows if some criminals that prey on non LEO may have body armor?
 
I "volunteered" once to be shot w/ a Taser. The one thing that happens is that you lose all sense to do anything...it really doesn't hurt (it doesn't feel good, but it really doesn't hurt) its just like your entire body is short circuited...anyway, as alternative, I'd carry one.
As was told to me...the idea is to be able to get out of a nasty situation and the Taser allows the user that opportunity.

Very dynamic demo if you get a chance to see one, do so! ;)
 
I'd be willing to take on someone armed with a Taser using only a "slow-acting" 9mm. :D

Ok, all kidding aside.

A Taser acts quickly but the effect wears off quickly.
A Bullet may act slowly, but the effect gets more pronounced with time.
A Bullet may also act VERY quickly and permanently.

A Taser gives you one or maybe two shots.
A Pistol gives you many shots.

A Taser is limited to several feet in range.
A Pistol's range is limited primarily by the shooter's skill--many yards.

A Taser has limited deterrent value.
A Pistol has tremendous deterrent value.
 
I thought taser were developed for LEO's so they can drop someone and cuff them while they're down.

Can't see much use for a taser other than that:confused:
 
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