Airguns...

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Blakenzy

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I need recommendations on air guns for pest control. Unfortunately I know very little about the different brands, qualities or prices. A pneumatic "pump" or break open style is preferred over the CO2 cannister types. It must be of decent accuracy to take pigeon-sized targets up to 25 yards away (functional sights). Caliber .177 is more convenient than the larger ones I think. I don't know exactly how powerful these get to be but the more fps the better.

With these characteristics in mind does anyone have a particular brand/model air rifle to recommend? My budget is under $200.
 
ditto on a Gamo break barrel.

Mine, a model 650, cost less than $100 and will easily hit small, 1/2 inch square targets at 20 yds. Most of their models can come with an inexpensive 4x scope that's quite good, too.
 
With pellets FPS is not the primary determination of power. It is simply the most mentioned stat because the target audience soaks it up.

Diabolo pellets are drag stabilized and become much less accurate approaching the speed of sound. The speed of sound being around 1100 FPS on a ~70 degree day and lower on a cold day it is best to have an operating speed below 1000 FPS.

To maximize power you use heavier pellets to slow the FPS.

Pellets come in a wide range of weights from around 6 grain to 30 grain, and you can cast bullets even heavier.

Many manufacters targeting those who don't know any better are going to use a very light weight pellet and list that FPS.

However that is simply a rough idea because a gun with less FPS but higher air volume and long barrel can still actualy propel a heavier pellet faster than a gun that discharges a small amount of air very fast, which would give a high FPS with a light pellet.
So lower FPS guns CAN actualy be more powerful even in the same caliber.



The cheapest accurate high powered airguns are going to be the the multi pump pneumatics.
There is also the spring piston based ones, but they have a jolt in both directions and it throws off accuracy. In my opinion they have the power but are junk.
The multi pump ones are the better of the two.
They require around 8-12 pumps for maximum power per shot (depending on model) which slows your shots, but can be quite powerful, in the 600-800 FPS range with light pellets. The lack of the forward and backward jolt that is found in the spring piston guns allows the multi pump ones much better accuracy and they also don't destroy optics like the spring piston ones.

You can get CO2 repeaters in the 300 FPS range that are not really suitable for pest control. There is better CO2 guns but CO2 generaly is lower power and without a larger caliber not suitable for good hunting.

Then there is PCP or pre charged pnuematics.
They cost as much or more than many firearms and are the cream of the crop for airguns.
They have about the power of the quality multi pump pnuematics in smaller calibers, but they do not need to be pumped between each shot. Some are single shot and some repeaters, but they hold the air of multiple shots. They cost several hundred dollars and then require either a few hundred dollar special hand pump, or a large air tank to refill from.
To purchase a ready to go setup with a powerful PCP you would spend at least $500 (some much more with the gun alone costing well over that.) That would include adapters and either a large tank you have to take to a refill location and get topped at a cost, or an expensive multi stage hand pump that is capable of generating the 3,000 PSI many of the PCP run at.


Then there is airguns in calibers above .50 that can be used for big game hunting. People have taken deer, elk and bison among other big game with them. They have about the power of a black powder muzzle loader. They also tend to be quite expensive. All of those are the PCP type.
In fact if you want a little history, such arms were used by royalty as far back as the 1500s and were the best small arms until the invention of the cartridge firearm. However they were priced out of the range of the common man and only people with quite a bit of cash had them. Lewis and Clark had such an example on thier trek. They could fire up to 20 shots, had detachable reservoirs and were on par power wise with black powder weapons of the day. The Girandoni air rifle being one of the more famous designs, even being used as the main arm for Austria's army. The Girandoni was invented around 1779-1780, and included many features based on many similar earlier custom designs.
So they get plenty powerful :neener:

Powder firearms were the weapon of the common man. Those with money had better and more effective air weapons.
Powder arms however could be made to looser tolerances, and required no mechanical education to maintain and clean in the field. Air guns were complex.


If you want cheap yet effective for rodent rabbit size or smaller game then get one of the multi pump pnuematics. They can be had from $60-$120 for a suitable one.
 
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Zoogster,

I think there is a large contingent of airgun shooters that would disagree with your statement that spring guns are inaccurate and junk. There are some incredibly accurate spring guns out there, and whilst they take considerable practice to master, they do have a strong following and are easier/cheaper to shoot than full on PCP rigs. The Beeman R9 is probably one of the most popular spring guns seen at the club level AAFTA shoots.

PCP guns are arguably the most powerful - certainly far more so than any pump gun - but you have to decide whether you need all that power (and associated expense) when all the OP wants is to eradicate a few pigeons. My Daystate Harrier X .22 PCP gun cost $1300 new, and that doesn't include a scope or an air source. What you do get is a gun that puts out 35ftlb muzzle energy, and can drive tacks at 30yds. At 50yds its grouping around 1.5" or so.

To the OP: if you really want to figure out what to get, ask here.
 
If you have a Cabela's handy, they sell refurbished Daisy Powerline 1000 break barrel 1000 fps .177 air rifles for $75 complete with scope. Excellent value and very powerful / accurate for your needs.
 
In your price range, Break-Barrel spring-piston is the way to go.
Unlike CO2 and pump-up pneumatics, they are very quite, as well as powerful & accurate.

If you go pump-up or CO2, you might as well just use a .22 rifle because of the high noise level.

For Squirrels & Rabbits, get a .22 caliber air-rifle.
Birds are handled nicely with .177.

1224.jpg
rcmodel
 
Ok, so I was looking at air rifles on Cabelas and found that Gamo has some products that would be ideal for me, even though I probably have to up my budget. However while many of the consumer reviews have nothing but praise for Gamo rifles, others state that there seems to be alot of trouble with accuracy, scope mounts coming loose(right out of the box mind you), screws shaving off and what not. Any truth to that?

The "Varmint Hunter" model seems just perfect for me but it's as loud as a .22 rimfire according to some reviews. Now that would be a problem if it is true. I was happy to find the Gamo "Whisper" model that has some form of sound suppressor and supposedly solves the loud noise problem while maintaining alot of power. Now that sounds great but I also found mixed reviews on that. While some consumers swear that it is very quiet other state that it is a nonfunctional gimmick.

I really don't know what to believe. Has any one here tried one of those out? I guess I should trust a THR member's opinion more than that of random shooter.
 
Zoogster is using some truth some not quite right...

A spring gun can be "hold sensitive" and need "technique" to shoot well but QUALITY spring guns have been made up to OLYMPIC quality in accuraccy etc.

and the
"They have about the power of a black powder muzzle loader."

totally nutz! My DAQ .50 is a 700-800 fps gun with roundball and a .50 cal RB with powder is way over 1000 with basic loads let alone the big powder heavy conical loads...

yes they have killed big game but they are not in the leauge of BP! A daq .50 is about what a standard .45 acp is and a .50 cal muzzleloader ouclasses a .44 mag in normal loads.

search this forum for info ya want- these guys FOR THE MOST PART will give ya straight answers etc

http://www.network54.com/Forum/79537/
 
a silencer on a spring gun at best cuts some noise but the mechanical noise is not helped by it and they are loud enough to hear just the mechanism itself to a large degree actually.
 
I have a powerline 880 and it shoots 2 pellets in 1 hole at 25 yards if you hold it still.
The only thing I hate is you have to pump it 10 time but if you pump it 30 times I can put 8 BBs in it and get a good 6 inch group at 20 yards.

I can kill a squirrel with 1 shot with 10 pumps at 30 yards



Ricky
 
Don't listen to me, but a couple of years ago I spent several hundred dollars starting from "I'm clueless and this looks like it ought to work" to this:

56d6003f.jpg

Here's my advice: buy a simple, Benjamin or Crossman pump in .22 cal.
Don't do what I did and go through three or four springers first.

Right out of the box it will shoot accurately with the factory open sights, or if you really want to reach out and touch something, add a variable airgun scope. Airguns (especially) springers require a special scope due to their recoil.

Springers were more difficult for me to adapt to, but the vintage pump is like shooting your dad's old single shot .22. Anyone can shoot one.

Concerned about noise or over penetration? Just use three or four pumps. At three pumps and 15 yds, my refurb'ed 50 year old Crossman will shoot all the way through an insurgent grackle and knock them on their azzes. At 8 pumps it shoots a .22 cal pellet at 650fps.

Don't get confused about all the different pellets available. Just shoot a flat or round headed, over the counter pellet, and you'll get all the performance and accuracy you need for pest control.

I took the long, hard road and ended up withe an accurate, hard shooting, reliable workhorse that's eliminated nearly 400 grackles from my neighborhood in the last 3 years.

btw: A vintage airgun expert refurb'ed my grandfather's 1954 Crossman for a delivered price of $26.
 
I agree with suggestion of .22 multi-pump as shown above. Heavier projectiles, bigger hole. As a kid, I used to even drop some jack rabbits with one. A big key is to give the same number of pumps (usually 8) for consistency at distance like 25 yards.

I got another one (without scope) at Cabellas a couple years back for around $130. With good body hits, some crows I've hit have flown a ways, but often not far.
 
Get A benjamin 392 (.22) or a 397 (.177) They are easy to shoot and fairly accurate (dime sized groups at 10 yards, Quarter at 25). Check out pyramydair.com. They are loud, but totally worth it.

HB
 
blakenzy
Spend some time here: http://www.pyramydair.com/ and here:http://www.airguns.net/. I love my pump-up Benji but my RWS 34 (spring gun) turned into a tack driver once broken-in and mastered. Air guns are great fun, afordable and addicting. No one should have just one. I have many and CO2 guns (like the QB78/79) can can be great pest control guns with some fun modifications and used in fairly warm weather.
Frosty52 -- the soggy Oregon Coast
 
Agreed, but why deal with the "break in" and "mastering" of a $200+ RWS (great gun, btw!) when $150 will buy an out-of-the-box, accurate .22 Benji pump?

Springers are a challenge to someone new to airgunning and can be frustrating to someone only wanting to quickly drop pests.

And my experience has been shooting less than 25 yards where 8 pumps and their noise isn't necessary.

At 15 yards that old Crossman can shoot 1/2" groups at a lethal (on birds) three pumps.

But if you have to shoot at distances of 25yds and out, you're gonna have to spend some money and deal with the noise.

My pest quest even took me to a CZ .22 bolt action rifle with CCI .22 CB Longs which worked fine until the gumbo clay ground dried out and I richocheted a few into my neighbors fence. Sold it pronto and got the Crossman refurb'ed.
 
BassPlayer,
I own and shoot a Benji 392, with a few simple mods and a 2X scout mount scope it is accurate to the point of almost boring. I would be a excellent pest rifle, I have taken Raccoons with mine. The RWS 34 is one of the best airgun buys out there. The spring gun power plant is a very efficient device. It also has the potential of a resonable chance at a follow up shot. The break-in and mastery is proccess to be enjoyed, not just dealt with. Air gunning is a pursuit on to itself with challenge and depth enough to keep one interested for a long time. There are many guns that will kill pests, but have a little fun along the way.
Frosty52 -- the soggy Oregon Coast
Frosty52
 
I have had a break action .177 crossman that has been very accurate and deadly (tho sometimes with several shots) on housecats and crows. Sometimes the crows would fly off (not to far though, or very well!) if they were a ways away. It has a cheap 1-4x scope that wont even adjust correctly but it is very accurate. As far as pellets, I would get which ever is most accurate over claimed "deadliness."

I have since adopted a 22 Hornet for my "keep it quiet" pest removal needs after enough 22 LR's failed (mostly due to bullet design) but an air rifle is still a nice way to go, especially with really settle areas or where they are the only thing legal. If most of your shots would be towards the upper end of power I would get a break action single cock, but if you desire more variability of power and most are not up towards the higher end I would get a pump. It is fun pumping them, and easier for multi-shots/follow ups and can usually use bb's too.

With a round as weak as a little pellet, I would say accuracy would be the nicest. A lot of the pests suitable for air rifles usually don't fair to well after the first [well placed] shot and allow a second shot. But not always, of course. But most will leave if you miss, so as with anything, accuracy is better than power. I would venture to get something 750-1000 fps, but I don't know what all you want it for. A mouse would be done for, a housecat may just run away AND be back again later on.
 
I hear ya now, Frosty.

and totally agree

Just trying to steer a noob in a better direction than I first took.

I ended up with just what I needed for a specific purpose, but here's what I still have a longing for: Diana RWS 46 Stutzen!

Just something about it that calls to me.:eek:
 
Zoogster is using some truth some not quite right...

A spring gun can be "hold sensitive" and need "technique" to shoot well but QUALITY spring guns have been made up to OLYMPIC quality in accuraccy etc.
Well he won't be wanting olympic quality for a budget pest gun. Olympic quality guns cost 10x more than one almost as good.
In budget quality I think the springers are the cheapest design, the spring beats them up, the safety of the firearm is dependent on holding a powerful spring at tension, and they need special optics because they rattle themselves so much. You can't even use firearm optics.
Some may disagree and that is fine, but imho springers are at the bottom in airgun actions.

and the
"They have about the power of a black powder muzzle loader."

totally nutz! My DAQ .50 is a 700-800 fps gun with roundball and a .50 cal RB with powder is way over 1000 with basic loads let alone the big powder heavy conical loads...

yes they have killed big game but they are not in the leauge of BP! A daq .50 is about what a standard .45 acp is and a .50 cal muzzleloader ouclasses a .44 mag in normal loads.
Here is an airgun that gets over 1,000 foot pounds launching over 1,000 grain projectiles.
a.jpg

I call that on par with a muzzle loader.


In response to the thread, the benji 392 mentioned by others is a great airgun in the price range. 15 grain .22 pellet at close to 700 FPS. Made of quality metal and wood for the price point, which will be rare for power and quality at that price range.
If you want to go even cheaper there is some crossman budget pumps with plastic furniture that have the power of some of the more expensive ones.
The 1377 pump pistol is very handy getting 600 FPS with .177 and many crossmans are heavily modular, allowing you to order cheap parts for a wide range of other model guns that will also work in the gun you got. You can get shorter.longer barrels easy, and every other part.
The 2240 is a .22 co2 version that is overdesigned for a time when it was a bulk fill, and is very modular sharing parts with other guns. That means you can seriously customize it. People turn them into PCP guns as well.
I worked on a project and turned one into a PCP firing at 600-650 FPS for several shotswith a very short barrel. You can get steel breachs, improved valves, new reservoirs, and turn it into a PCP on par with a gun that would cost upwards of $800.
Here is one similar that started out as a 2240, and it fires at close to 700 FPS in the demonstration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0dssUvyPR4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3g43XL73xSc
(in spanish made for someone in Mexico where legaly enjoying firearms is not so easy, but you don't need to understand the language)
Here is someone that got 805 out of a 10 inch barrel:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DLAHxokmHE
Though they have it hooked directly to an air souce which I find unacceptable.

There is even more powerful ones that started out as them, in .25 and 9mm chamberings using many custom parts and heavy pellets and bullets. If you want a do it yourself project PCP airgun it is an excellent platform. You end up with something with as much power, accuracy, and handiness as ones people can pay thousands for, and have something modular at the same time. Allowing you to change barrels, go from carbine to portable pistol etc, and in a platform that will readily ship you parts you need (unlike many maufacters). There is many times you will be able to use a pistol in a neighborhood that you just couldn't use a rifle. That means while you sacrifice power, you get to use it without spooking your neighbors a lot more.
Be safe though and know what you are doing customizing. Certain parts have different stress levels and need to be upgraded accordingly or you end up with a broken gun or a bomb.

Keep in mind the more powerful ones can cause serious injury or death to people and mistakes or criminal offense with them will be treated no differently than if a firearm was used. The main difference is with air the option has still not be regulated out of existence like it has many places with firearms. That is because many people still associate airguns with the red ryder bb gun types, and firearms are so prevelent in our society that they have not gotten around to excessively regulating airguns in the US yet.
So it fore example can be illegal to use a .22, but an airgun with as much or more power can be perfectly legal.
Be responsible, and expect the police to be called because they are as loud as firearms if you plan to shoot multiple times, try to fire and disappear before people are looking out thier windows wondering what that was.
Don't ruin it or get it legislated like firearms. They are not toys, and places where firearms are not legal are that way for a reason...and people won't appreciate you sidestepping the law with another weapon just as powerful, so use discretion when you use it.
The price point of many of the powerful ones, and the fact you can get a more powerful firearm much cheaper keeps most of the irresponsible individuals away.
 
fwiw: Airgun silencers are common in the U.K. where airgunning appears to be very popular due to the U.K. firearm laws.

And the .22 Benji pump is pretty quiet at 3-4 pumps which will still thump most pests within 15 yds.
 
fwiw: Airgun silencers are common in the U.K. where airgunning appears to be very popular due to the U.K. firearm laws.

Airguns are also heavily restricted in the UK and UK airguns all have to be very weak by law or they are classified as firearms.
The maximum is 12 foot pounds for a rifle and I think 6 for a pistol in the UK. That means even a 1377 $50 .177 airgun is too powerful for them.
The .22 Benji coming in at over 15 foot pounds would also be illegal (considered a firearm and requiring the same permits) in the UK. As would most airguns suitable for pest control or small game hunting.

Don't kid yourself, anyplace that bans or heavily regulates firearms quickly gets to airguns when they become popular.
Australia and even Canada also have serious power limitations for airguns.

However in the US with firearms so common, and much cheaper for equal and usualy greater power, airguns are largely forgotten and treated as children's toys by law (unless you commit a firearm/weapon offense, then they carry the same penalty as a firearm.)
 
You mentioned THEY in reference to powerful airguns - the 20mm is a "One of" airgun- at this point anyhow.

Where did you get the energy numbers anyhow? They might not be right- you DO NOT NEED 1000 ftpds to down a buff...

I never said that an airgun of power has never been made but they definately are not very available. I know the DAQ .50 bandit is about the most powerful PRODUCTION gun out there- heck the air cannons have more power yet ;)

I have been in the adult airgun game for 30 years and the internet airgun forums for five I guess, I own cheapies to the DAQ and a couple olympic type with a smattering of QUALITY sporters thrown in. I have quite a few accurate spring guns and my first was a mid level sporter that is still great after 30 years... so I have experience.


Your comment of "and they need special optics because they rattle themselves so much. You can't even use firearm optics." is plain IGNORENCE and more twisted fact on your part... it is not that they "rattle" but that mainly the recoil forces are in reverse compared to a regular firarm and can cause havoc on the internals of even good scopes.

Your comment of springers are innacurate was proved wrong by my olympic quality comment and you point the finger to "he won't be wanting olympic quality" - your response is again not addressing the FACT that springers can be accurate and you said they were not.
 
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