AK47 & Mosin Nagant

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Motega

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I want to acquire one of each and was hoping someone could offer a good source(s) and some tips for purchase. I'm in NJ so there are a few things I'd have to consider additionally. Generally I think I'd avoid Century stuff (right?) and anything obviously worn to garbage, but wanted some info on Cosmoline, and what price range is good for each, any specifics to look for (octagonal barrels, non-laminated or pieced receiver, matching serial numbers, etc. )
Thanks!
 
Century does not make the Mosin-Nagant, and contrary to popular belief, they don't screw up the guns they import just to maintain their reputation.

Century doesn't make the WASR, either, they just import it from Romania.

Putting Century out of your choices may cause you to spend more than necessary (they are the largest firearms importer in the whole world).


Now, guns they do produce domestically may need an inspection. . .
 
I would suggest that you spend the extra money for a higher quality AK like the Arsenal SGL. I regret not doing that the first time around.
I don't know much about Mosins yet. There are a lot of good vids on youtube about these.
 
gunsnammo.com

^ best money for an original mosin.

If not go to a gun show and pickup a wartime 91/30 and modify to your taste
 
Geeeeeeez, almost $1000 for a good AK-47?! Is that the going rate these days?
 
A 91/30 Nagant can be found for less than $100. Cheapest AK will be around $4-450.
 
The WASR is fine if you don't give a hoot about cosmetics and extreme accuracy (but then again it is a AK). Just watch for the common issues found on WASR's such as the canted sight/gas block, and the mag wobble is inevitable, but there are fixes for all those issues. If you're on a budget the WASR is a fair and cheap way to get familiar with the AKM family. As for Nagants that really depends on the model that you like such as the 91/30, the M44 or even the M38. I have owned a WASR and a Nagant and they both function fine, so personally I haven't had a issue with any of them.
 
Mosin-Nagants average on the internet for around 70-80$. Both AIM Surplus and J&G Sales have them listed inexpensively, both in round receiver and hex receiver models. The hex receivers are generally purported to be of higher quality due to pre-war manufacture and 'stronger', but there is no appreciable difference.

After transfer fees, you're probably looking at an average of 110-120$. Problem with online orders is that they're a bit hit or miss; you might get one in great virtually un-issued condition, or you might get one that was dragged on the back of a truck to Berlin and whose muzzle has evaporated from having so many bullets poured through it into men of the Deustches Heer. The latter is of course an exaggeration, particularly if you have a hand-pick option, but some just shoot and look better than others.

If you want a high quality rifle, inspect it yourself at a gunshow for barrel wear and function. Cosmoline is just a heavy storage grease that protects against rust; you can easily clean it off with heat or mineral spirits or some other degreaser.

As for AK's, I would agree with getting an Russian arsenal AK. They're made at Izhmash, the same armory in Izhevsk that long ago manufactured many of the Mosins that you'll probably pick up, and their export models are apparently of excellent quality. They also have a few subtle ergonomic changes, such as to the handguard, that makes them feel better. Otherwise the Romanian 10/63's have gotten a lot better these days, and the VZ-58 is a neat option too.
 
I got my Romanian for $417 out the door...That aint bad considering I live in Hawaii...You can pick up an ARSENAL 7.62x39mm for about $800 online.. In Hawaii I can walk out with an ARSENAL for $775! For quality I'd go ARSENAL... I lucked out when I bought my Mosin M44.. My friend was going through a hard time and sold it to me for $100...M44's are shorter than the 91/30's and a little more rare...Classic Arms, JGSALES to name a couple have good deals on Mosin's... Good luck on your journey!!;)
 
SAIGA - which is Izhmash...the original Kalashnikov.

Convert it to your needs. Best option if you can use a drill, and a dremel and a few simple handle tools.. and have a few hours to spare.


After the conversion, the parts, the scope mount, the scope and magazines, and ammo.. I am still a few hundred dollars cheaper than Arsenal's work, and about the same if not better.
 
I had one of the older imported Romak AK's that was very well built. I have been less impressed by the later ones. The Polytech Chinese milled receiver AK's are neat but not too easy to find.

For Mosins, if you want the best for the buck on the market today it's tough to beat an M39 Finn.
 
There are a lot of options on the Mosin like the solid vs. composite stock, older oct. barrel vs. round, etc. .... so all I'm going for is matched serials throughout, not counter-bored, decent rifling and mechanically sound. I guess there isn't too much more to make of it? The choice of arsenals Tula Vs. Izzy doesn't seem to matter much in terms of shooting and having fun and I'm not planning on collecting.
I'm lost on the AK, I thought they could be had for $350 or so in shootin shape ... I don't want to get involved in a few hours worth of work.
 
There are far more options than that for the Mosins. The serial matching doesn't matter that much--they're not like Mausers. Some of the best have mis-matched numbers. If you're wanting a 91/30 Soviet you should get a pre-war model. Hex vs. round doesn't matter, but the ones before 1939 tend to have a little more TLC in their construction for obvious reasons. Many if not most have been rearsenaled. You can tell from a little box with a slash through it.
 
I traded a wasr underfolder last week for russian capture K98-I love them 98! The wasr I had had FTF AND fte, but that was because the mag release was an increment back, meaning the mag moved side to side AND back and forth meaning it would need serious work, which I wasnt up too. so when I found somebody willing to trade for it I did.

And the mauser came with 600+ rds of ammo on clips :)
also has all the nazi marks etc. shoots 1.5 moa at 150 iron sights-not bad imo

sorry for the thread jack, the mauser is a better option IMO , I have had multiple mosins.
My fave would have to be the M38-Get one if you can
 
... I don't want to get involved in a few hours worth of work.

Well, then expect to pay for someone else's work (Arsenal, Century etc), or very possibly end up with something you don't like.
 
Personally I'd go for the carbine version of the MN, the M44. Its about 20-40 bucks more but its much handier and the bayonet is a fold-out which is easier to handle.
 
You will have a hard time finding a shop that will transfer an AK in NJ.
Century has one advertised as NJ but a lot of people will not do it.
A friend of mine just went through this, which is nuts.
Look into the firearms exclusion list in NJ. Nobody knows how to read the firearms laws in NJ, nor the lawyers, nor the police, nor the dealer, nor even the ATF agents.
It is design to confuse, deceive and put the citizens through a totally arbitrary process.

If you can actually do it get a saiga or a tula heavy barreled. All original Russian pedigree. Just be careful, don't want to end like that guy in NJ ended up in jail for no reason and in the end they had to fire the judge and get the guy out of jail.

Cheers,
E.
 
From everything I've read on AIM and other sites regarding their stated condition, the hex Mosins tend to have much worse barrels than the round receiver ones. Unless you're getting one as a collector's item, I'd get a round one instead. The round ones tend to have much better barrels and will be better shooters.

I picked up an all-matching 1943 Izhevsk with a shiny bore from an individual at a gun show a few years ago. I paid $75, and it came with an ammo pouch and stripper clips. A pity those days are long behind us.
 
Mosins are not what they used to be. The good surplus is more scarce everyday. I am not an expert in mosins or many classics but that is what I hear from a couple of buddies from the service that are fanatics about this.
Check out this veteran. He has a very good insight on these things and what to look for....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GblUK6IUw5c
 
I dont know if it can be shipped but check out rguns.net. I live around there and picked my mosin 91/30 there with all the accesories AND 440 of surplus for 150.00
 
the hex Mosins tend to have much worse barrels than the round receiver ones

That's way too broad a generalization. Hex vs. round is not that big of a deal. It tells you something about when and where the receiver was made--that's it! There are hex receiver 91/30's with minty bores and round receiver 91/30's with Stalingrad bores. And a great many of both that were refurbed and rearsenaled after the war. When you move beyond Soviet rifles the receiver tells you even less.

You need to do a hands-on inspection to be able to draw any conclusions about any mosins. And really you need to shoot the thing with a variety of ammo. Here are some pointers:

--First pull the bolt out and of course verify it is totally unloaded with no 54R nearby. This permits you to freely inspect the action. Inspect the bolt face for pitting which may show poor cleaning by the prior owner.

--Eyeball the bore by pointing the barrel at a bright light and looking through the receiver. Flip and repeat, being careful not to sweep anyone but yourself (the bolt is OUT now remember). You need to look to see if the crown is intact and if there has been a counterbore. You will often see some wear and tear towards the crown. This is usually fine, so long as you have even wear on the crown itself. But ideally you'll see sharp lands out to the crown. The crown can be rebated, as with M39's, but this is different from a counterbore that puts the crown back in the barrel and effectively shortens the barrel.

--Feel the barrel/stock fit and inspect the wrist for any cracks or incipient cracks.

--Inspect the shank and receiver markings. They will typically tell you who made the barrel, when the barrel was made, what nation(s) it came from and whether it was refurbed by the soviets.

--Observe the machining marks. Wartime USSR receivers are often very roughly cut and have an unfinished look to them.

--Observe the stock design and condition. It should have shellac if soviet, and if Finn it should have a dark stain. Almost black sometimes. Is it two piece? Has it been cut by Mr. Bubba?

--Check the interreuptor/ejector for springiness. It should be pretty stiff and have a non-eroded interruptor tip. Easy to replace, though, so it's not a deal breaker.



--Reinsert the bolt and check the trigger pull. Cycle and dry fire a few times, with the owner's permission of course, and of course pointing at something that can safely stop a 54R. The planet ideally. The bolt should not be tight, but rather should feel limber and kind of loose in the hand. It should have no points of unusual stiffness.
 
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