al Qaeda losing support in Iraq

[GoRon]

Interesting news from Iraq as reported by Reuters (no friend of the Bush administration).

Iraqi insurgents urge Sunnis to vote, warn Zarqawi

A little tidbit from the article:

"We want to see a nationalist government that will have a balance of interests. So our Sunni brothers will be safe when they vote," said Falluja resident Ali Mahmoud, a former army officer and rocket specialist under Saddam's Baath party.

"Sunnis should vote to make political gains. We have sent leaflets telling al Qaeda that they will face us if they attack voters."

 

[joab]

From what I've heard, it's simply a case of Reuters finally reporting that Iraqis arefed up with the insurgents

 

[GoRon]

This article showed up in another thread. Very positive and surprising poll numbers out of Iraq.

ABC News poll of Iraqi's

 

[Helmetcase]

This isn't news if you've been reading between the lines. Despite what you've been told, the military has found that AQ and foreign fighters make up less than 5% of the insurgency. Iraqis are fiercely nationalistic (well, except for the Kurds who want and deserve their own sovreign state), and resent foreign meddling. The Sunni insurgents initially found the AQ types useful because they're willing to die and would run in front of American guns, but they've tired of and have started to not trust the foreign elements.

The Sunnis starting to trust the political process and taking part is what will end this insurgency, not us.

 

[GoRon]

The Sunnis starting to trust the political process and taking part is what will end this insurgency, not us.

Of course there would be no political process if it wasn't for us.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Al Qaeda is a moot point in Iraq. Bush would like everyone to believe that the insurgency is Al Qaeda, but it is not. The insurgency will not end even if every Al Qaeda type is killed.

The insurgency probably will never end. I dont see the Sunnis and Shiites suddenly making up and becoming friends after generations of not liking each other.

Civil War is inevitable. Its just a matter of how many Americans must die before we let it happen.

 

[GoRon]

Al Qaeda is a moot point in Iraq. Bush would like everyone to believe that the insurgency is Al Qaeda, but it is not. The insurgency will not end even if every Al Qaeda type is killed.

Unlike most I listen to what the president says. Just today he put the al Queda/foreign fighter percentage at 5-10% in Iraq.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Unlike most I listen to what the president says. Just today he put the al Queda/foreign fighter percentage at 5-10% in Iraq.

He has never said anything to that effect that I am aware of until now. He has talked at length about "foreign fighters" pouring into Iraq from other countries though.

 

[Standing Wolf]

al Qaeda losing support in Iraq

Well, yeah, sure, but it's gaining support in Congress.

 

[longhorngunman]

Our troops may be killing hordes of Binnies thugs in Iraq but Al Queda is making great inroads in controlling the Democratic party as of late. I think they have decided the best policy is to win from within.

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

My friends on the ground in Iraq have been telling me this for at least 6 months now. Michale Yon has also been saying this for quite a long time.

The only "news" here is that the media is starting to report these things.

We ARE winning in Iraq. Perhaps it's finally become so obvious that even the media can't deny the truth any longer.

One can always hope...

 

[Helmetcase]

Insurgent attacks are on the rise though. I define winning as "creating a situation where the Iraqis can do the job instead of us". We're a long way from there, pahdner.

The only way a civil war can be avoided is if the Shiites decide to not try to exact revenge on the Sunnis, and they'll only do that if they Sunnis really start playing ball the Shiite way in the political system...and that might never happen.

One of two possibilities: civil war, which will happen no matter how long we stay, or the Sunnis are accepted into the govt and will play ball nicely...but they'll be a lot more inclined to do that when they're not resisting occupation.

Oh, and nice try, but they've been trying for a long time in DC to conflate "AQ terrorist type" with "insurgent." No sale. Not the same at all.

 

[longhorngunman]

I'd take whatever the Communist news network told you with a grain of salt. Hmmm, Progun Progressives . Good to start the morning with a laugh.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

It is folly at best, and insanity at worst, to think that generational enemies can be forced to get along in a stable democratic society after just a could of years of occupation by a foreign army.

If we occupy Iraq for 500 yrs, maybe by then they could have worked out their differences and a civil war could be avoided when we leave.

But another couple of years is not enough time to solve the problem. If we leave today, or in 2006, or 2008 doesnt matter... a civil war will occur.

We have set the Iraqis up for this, and laid the ground work for genocide, by allowing the Iraqi constitution to be written as it has been. Their constitution has been touted by Bush as a major milestone towards freedom, but how can a document that does not affirm basic human rights (such as a right to keep arms) represent freedom?

 

[Helmetcase]

I'd take whatever the Communist news network told you with a grain of salt. Hmmm, Progun Progressives . Good to start the morning with a laugh.

Something useful to contribute perhaps? I'm not sure exactly what we're supposed to be taking with a grain of salt. But it's own military intelligence that's told us that AQ's presence in Iraq is numerically insignificant. If that shakes your worldview, take it up with the Pentagon. Because it's the truth whether you want it to be or not.

And please tell me you're not so ignorant as to believe that someone who supports all the freedoms we progressives support can't also believe in the freedoms supported by the 2A.

but how can a document that does not affirm basic human rights (such as a right to keep arms) represent freedom?

Can a group of people democratically decide to do away with democracy? It appears they can. I think you're right about our inability to prevent a civil war--and what's more, I'd argue the longer we stay and the more we let it fester, the worse it will be. The Sunnis want us out, and now the Shiites are leaning that way as well. We should focus our efforts entirely on training the Iraqis to get ready for the firestorm that's brewing.

 

[Satch]

Al-Qa'ida Texts

Insurgents (terrorists) cannot move freely or for that matter win if they do not have the support of the people in a country,that is why this vote is so important. Already there is reports of Iraq's warning our troops in many places about IED"s,etc. The terrorist attacking the Iraq people lately may be a big mistake and turn the people against them.

 

[Ezekiel]

Civil War is inevitable. Its just a matter of how many Americans must die before we let it happen.

One was too much. :banghead:

If we're going to remain in Iraq, we should just annex the whole damned country...

 

[longhorngunman]

You libs and your retreat plans are just liberal dreaming. Yes when the Iraqi forces are ready and the government can assume control we will draw down significantly. Yet there will be a continual American prescense in the country comparable to Germany and Japan. Iraq is the most strategic place to be in the ME and we'll be there in some capacity for awhile.

 

[Helmetcase]

Well, that's not what the commander in chief is telling us. Maybe it's you who's dreaming? Hmmm?

 

[Silver Bullet]

Helmetcase, your Progun Progressives web site looks great, and I think deserves our support.

I think it has the potential to reach out to many folks who have probably never imagined themselves ever owning a firearm.

I am working on changing the Dems from within

That's great, and a reminder that this board isn't supposed to be Repubs vs. Dems, but rather pro-RKBA and encompassing all pro-RKBA folks.

 

[BADUNAME4]

Yeah, but they're gaining support from the Democrat Party.

 

[Silver Bullet]

No, if he succeeds, we, as gun folk, are gaining support from the Democrat Party. That's a good thing for all of us.

 

[GoRon]

That's great, and a reminder that this board isn't supposed to be Repubs vs. Dems, but rather pro-RKBA and encompassing all pro-RKBA folks.

Personally I enjoy the spirited debate.

My wish is the Democrats would pull their act together and offer the republicans a run for their money. The R's have moved left as fast as the D's have.

The republicans now for the most part occupy the center. The Democrats are on the left fringe ready to fall into the abyss.

The republicans are totally vulnerable, those of us that are conservative, esp with libertarian views toward the economy are completely fed up. The big government spending and expansion of the government under the republicans is scandalous.

The Democrats instead of filling the gap have moved even further left and are nothing more than euro wannebies.

 

[Helmetcase]

No, if he succeeds, we, as gun folk, are gaining support from the Democrat Party. That's a good thing for all of us.

Silver Bullet nailed it, and gets the star for today. It's simple really, do you want more or fewer enemies to your RKBA? As much as you might agree or disagree with me on the other social issues that make me a progressive or a liberal (abortion, the environment, gay rights, religion, education, foreign policy, whatever!), you'll find that I invariably err on the side of choice! And there's no choice more important than the freedom to choose to defend yourself and your loved ones from danger and tyranny. You can wish and hope that someday there'll be no such thing as liberals or Democrats, but guess what...you might as well hope to make the sun rise in the west and set in the east...cause it ain't going to happen. You can't hope to make everyone see the world the way you do, but you CAN hope--and do more than hope--to protect a right that we all should enjoy, liberal and conservative alike. CCW rights protect all of us, and we'll get where we're going faster if I help change the party from within.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

Their constitution has been touted by Bush as a major milestone towards freedom, but how can a document that does not affirm basic human rights (such as a right to keep arms) represent freedom?

LG -- I totally agree with you on this point -- RKBA should be a universally recognized right (ESPECIALLY through the UN) -- but isn't the U.S. the only country with RKBA in its Constitution?