Alternate Grip Safeties 1911A1

[aaaaa]

I have a Charles Daly Field 1911 in .45 ACP and am looking to change the grip safety as the current one hammers my hand to a black and blue spot if I don't wear a thick glove. Here is the gun (click for internet image).

So, the Wilson drop-in beaver tail grip safety will not work unless I change out the hammer to a commander hammer or bob the hammer, neither of which I want to do. But I found several options below and am wondering if they will fit the gun without major work (or basically at most I would have to file the trigger stop slightly). I also wonder if either of these will solve the problem of my hand being hammered by the grip safety tang (or what do you call it). If neither of those work, would a duck bill (arcs downward more?) grip safety work?

"Pachmayr Beavertail Grip Safety 1911 Series 70 with Spur Hammer"

"1911 Mil Spec - Grip Safety - Standard GI Wide Paddle"


"1911 MIL SPEC - GRIP SAFETY - STANDARD GI RADIUS PADDLE"
"Fusion 1911 Colt non-gunsmith style in Black for Mil Spec style frames. Designed for Mil Spec and A-1 style pistols, and made for people who do not want to mill / alter their frame for a High-Ride beavertail grip safety installation. Made for the 1911 Colt, Springfield, RIA, A1, Mil Spec, and 1911 Mil Spec Clones.. Etc. Standard grip safety fitting of paw may be necessary. These are high quality professional grade."

 

[aaaaa]

Here is one that should work, but might look a bit weird with the narrow extended tang.

 

[nofendertom]

Curious as to why you don't want to bob the hammer.

 

[Riomouse911]

Curious as to why you don't want to bob the hammer.

Same. Since you are altering the “GI look” profile anyway, you might as well solve the hammer bite issue with a new hammer and a beavertail safety that fits together well.

If not, no worries. Just be sure to make sure the add-on grip safety allows enough room for the hammer to move back under the slide so it doesn’t prevent reset.

Stay safe.

 

[Cemetery21]

bob the hammer.

In my case it just takes 1/8" or so, hardly noticeable, to cure my bite.

 

[aaaaa]

Curious as to why you don't want to bob the hammer.

I would have filed the edge to get rid of the sharp angle and see if that helps keep my had from being beaten up as much. I did get a small blood area form the edge of the grip safety spur, but also black and blue area. But if I hit it with a file, then it will need to be re-blued in that area which is not so simple.


Also, I guess I am not sure what is hammer bite? I envision that as the web of my hand gets over top of the grip safety spur so that the hammer spur bites it against the grip safety spur. That is not the problem I have. My problem is the recoil is beating the grip safety spur into my hand. So it does not need to necessarily be longer, just not sharp edged, and ideally wider to spread the force.

 

[jar]

And your issue is easier and far less costly to solve by changing the grips. Everyone's hands are different so what works for me may not work for you but I've found switching to the Magpul MOE grips eliminated the bruising when shooting my Commander sized Tisas Tanker. The cost was under $20.00 and took about a full minute to swap the grips.

The Magpul grips might not be the answer for you but there are a zillion different G10 and polymer grips available today. Interestingly I don't get the bruising when shooting my full size basic Tisas 1911A1 Army but I think that is likely the additional forward weight of the longer barrel coupled with a longer and seemingly lighter return spring.

Before tying to change grip safeties and hammers and removing metal, try some different grips. If you have a local LGS with a range ask if you can try a few different grips before buying.

 

[Slamfire]

Modern beavertail designs are based on the assumption the user will only use the 1911 in the cocked and locked configuration.

Here is the 1905 model, how was the user supposed to carry this?



The original GI 1911 had virtually no grip safety, and that was to make it easy to thumb cock the 1911. This is a WW1 version



The Cavalry was to holster the pistol with a round in the chamber and hammer down. John Browning designed the 1910 pistol without a thumb safety, he intended the half cock to be the safety position. And his patents discuss lowering the hammer with the thumb of the shooting hand. So many accidental discharges happened when the hammer slipped out from under the thumb, by the time you get to WW1, the Army is positively schizophrenic about the proper mode of carry. The Navy never allowed a round in the chamber. The Navy carry was nothing in the chamber. Maybe the Officer of the Deck got a magazine, maybe not. The Navy preferred the Officer of the Deck to have a 1911 in the holster, but it was for show, usually the guy did not have a magazine or ammunition because an accidental discharge on a metal ship full of people and explosives could turn out to be a very bad thing. If the Officer of the Desk is lost in an altercation, at least he will make a lot of noise on the way out, will be missed, but people can be replaced.

The current configuration of cocked and locked was developed post WW2 so the combat types could play quick draw games. Remember, the fastest man always wins. There is no back shooting, combat always occurs face to face, and the contestants want a fair fight. Because the hand of God protects the righteous, and speed with a hand gun is a measure of the amount of God's grace in the winning shooter.

At least, that is what I saw in all those Cowboy movies. Used to be you could identify good guys and bad guys by the color of their hats. Good guys wore white hats, bad guys wore black hats. Red, tan, green, were not visible in black and white photography. Life was so simple and straight forward in the good ole days.

Modern beavertails have moved up, they wrap around the hammer, and they make it positively difficult, if not dangerous to touch the hammer. There just is not enough room to lower the hammer without losing control, might not be enough space to cock the hammer without losing control. The curl around beavertail protects the cocked hammer from impact, because a hard enough impact will break the sear, and then the 1911 will go full auto. And it has happened. Frank, the match Director of a Bullseye Pistol match, he dropped the slide for timed or rapid fire, and the sear broke. That pistol automatically chambered and fired all the five rounds in the magazine, and the fifth round went through Frank’s hat! Luckily for him that two five round strings are fired per timed/rapid fire match, as a sixth round would have been in Frank’s forehead.



Back in the day, Bullseye Pistol Competitors were required to hold the hammer back when they dropped this slide. This was because of all the low carbon steel WW2 parts in 1911’s, and these parts wore, and hammers followed. Holding the hammer back was a safety measure. Shooters used the thumb of the shooting hand to hold down the hammer. The Clark 180 beavertail was designed to have enough clearance that the thumb could get under the slide, something that is positively impossible with later beavertails. Late model beavertails move the hand up, so the thumb can rest on that diving board length extended safety. Cult cocked and locked has lengthened the safety to the extent it is extremely easy to bump the thing to unsafe, when you want it safe, and to safe, when you want it unsafe. I am sure a lot of ass cheeks have holes in them because the extended safety got bumped during holstering, and then something tripped the trigger. That grip safety is easily defeated by jelly rolls and clothing.

This is an older Clark 180 beavertail. It is comfortable to shoot, pushes the hand down so your thumb does not bump the safety. Mine did require the gunsmith to contour the frame.



This vendor makes a version:

https://kcskustomcreations.com/product/beavertail/


Right now with your GI configuration 1911, it is easy to cock or uncock the pistol. If you don’t care to cock or uncock your 1911, a modern beavertail will meet your needs.

 

[aaaaa]

Modern beavertail designs are based on the assumption the user will only use the 1911 in the cocked and locked configuration.

Here is the 1905 model, how was the user supposed to carry this?

View attachment 1116212

The original GI 1911 had virtually no grip safety, and that was to make it easy to thumb cock the 1911. This is a WW1 version

View attachment 1116213

The Cavalry was to holster the pistol with a round in the chamber and hammer down. John Browning designed the 1910 pistol without a thumb safety, he intended the half cock to be the safety position. And his patents discuss lowering the hammer with the thumb of the shooting hand. So many accidental discharges happened when the hammer slipped out from under the thumb, by the time you get to WW1, the Army is positively schizophrenic about the proper mode of carry. The Navy never allowed a round in the chamber. The Navy carry was nothing in the chamber. Maybe the Officer of the Deck got a magazine, maybe not. The Navy preferred the Officer of the Deck to have a 1911 in the holster, but it was for show, usually the guy did not have a magazine or ammunition because an accidental discharge on a metal ship full of people and explosives could turn out to be a very bad thing. So you lose the Officer of the Desk in an altercation, so what, people can be replaced.

The current configuration of cocked and locked was developed post WW2 so the combat types could play quick draw games. Remember, the fastest man always wins. There is no back shooting, combat always occurs face to face, and the contestants want a fair fight. Because the hand of God protects the righteous, and speed with a hand gun is a measure of the amount of God's grace in the winning shooter.

At least, that is what I saw in all those Cowboy movies. Used to be you could identify good guys and bad guys by the color of their hats. Good guys wore white hats, bad guys wore black hats. Red, tan, green, were not visible in black and white photography. Life was so simple and straight forward in the good ole days.

Modern beavertails have moved up, they wrap around the hammer, and they make it positively difficult, if not dangerous to touch the hammer. There just is not enough room to lower the hammer without losing control, might not be enough space to cock the hammer without losing control. The curl around beavertail protects the cocked hammer from impact, because a hard enough impact will break the sear, and then the 1911 will go full auto. And it has happened. Frank, the match Director of a Bullseye Pistol match, he dropped the slide for timed or rapid fire, and the sear broke. That pistol automatically chambered and fired all the five rounds in the magazine, and the fifth round went through Frank’s hat! Luckily for him that two five round strings are fired per timed/rapid fire match, as a sixth round would have been in Frank’s forehead.

View attachment 1116214

Back in the day, Bullseye Pistol Competitors were required to hold the hammer back when they dropped this slide. This was because of all the low carbon steel WW2 parts in 1911’s, and these parts wore, and hammers followed. Holding the hammer back was a safety measure. Shooters used the thumb of the shooting hand to hold down the hammer. The Clark 180 beavertail was designed to have enough clearance that the thumb could get under the slide, something that is positively impossible with later beavertails. Late model beavertails move the hand up, so the thumb can rest on that diving board length extended safety. Cult cocked and locked has lengthened the safety to the extent it is extremely easy to bump the thing to unsafe, when you want it safe, and to safe, when you want it unsafe. I am sure a lot of ass cheeks have holes in them because the extended safety got bumped during holstering, and then something tripped the trigger. That grip safety is easily defeated by jelly rolls and clothing.

This is an older Clark 180 beavertail. It is comfortable to shoot, pushes the hand down so your thumb does not bump the safety. Mine did require the gunsmith to contour the frame.

View attachment 1116217

This vendor makes a version:

https://kcskustomcreations.com/product/beavertail/


Right now with your GI configuration 1911, it is easy to cock or uncock the pistol. If you don’t care to cock or uncock your 1911, a modern beavertail will meet your needs.

Wow, why am I buying books on 1911s. I can just read your posts. Great info!

That Clark 180 looks great and does not change the GI look near as much as the typical larger beavertail.

Full auto from landing on the cocked hammer. Yikes! That sounds horrible. Can't happen if the thumb safety is on though, right.

At least the 1905 won't hammer your hand with a grip safety spur! So all I need is a spurless grip safety.

 

[Skylerbone]

A few bobbed hammer pics. I didn’t care to reinvent my trigger work by replacing the hammer so cropping the tail was the answer. Remember too that the grip safety has plenty of extra material that is also removable if desired.

Last pic shows my SA with 1 factory stock and 1 custom stock. Sadly 1911 stocks have gone the way of candy bars and toilet paper, shrunken to not fun size.

 

[Tallball]

Yeah, I would invest in a set of inexpensive grips that are bigger/thicker.

If the pistols is moving around in your hand a bit, bigger grips give you more to grab onto and the pistol should move less.

A number of my handguns were difficult to shoot with their original grips, but just fine after I got grips that fit my hands properly.

Beretta Model 81 Walnut

• Tallball
• Sep 14, 2019

 

[CDW4ME]

I've had 1911's in the past with narrow (standard) tang grip safety's and they punished my hand, I find them intolerable.
OP could take the simple solution approach and swap the grip safety and hammer, be done with it.
These do not hurt my hand to shoot.

 

[Archie]

I've found over time and usage, the wound that appears on the web of the shooting hand - commonly called 'hammer bite' - does not come from the hammer spur pinching the flesh between the hammer spur and the grip safety. The problem derives - in my case at least - from the rear edge of the grip safety digging into the web when, in full recoil, the hammer pushes the upper flange of the safety into the web. (I have permanent scar there from my misspent youth.)
The only relief I have found is with a wider (beaver tail?) configuration.

Off the main subject a bit but it has come up, is the configuration of the Colt 1900, Colt 1903 hammer pocket and the 1905 model. One loads the pistol fully, carefully lowers the hammer, then cocks the hammer for firing. Just like was always done with revolvers, like everyone had. People, this was 1905 and such was the normal style.
Before anyone gets excited, I do prefer the later thumb safety latch (switch?) but it was only added to the Government Model for the U. S. Cavalry, to make the pistol safe after firing it and sitting on a rather excited horse.

Truthfully I do not see the need for a grip safety. It seems an idiot device like a magazine safety; for those who aren't trained or lack the intellect to operate the pistol safely.

Off the main subject again, I prefer the grip safety with a projection at the bottom making depressing the grip safety easier.

By the way, I consider the spur hammer configuration as an aftermarket alteration to be a popular affectation.

Boy, am I grumpy today or what?

 

[aaaaa]

Beretta Model 81 Walnut

• Tallball
• Sep 14, 2019

Absolutely beautiful grips but I don't want to change the look, and in fact, maybe should not mess with this gun at all as it is very much replicating the actual gun the military used. I could someday get a second 1911 if I want to have the fancy beaver tail and other such stuff. Really a file to the bottom of the grip safety tang and I think I might have the problem solved, but then I lose the bluing.

 

[aaaaa]

I've found over time and usage, the wound that appears on the web of the shooting hand - commonly called 'hammer bite' - does not come from the hammer spur pinching the flesh between the hammer spur and the grip safety. The problem derives - in my case at least - from the rear edge of the grip safety digging into the web when, in full recoil, the hammer pushes the upper flange of the safety into the web.

That is exactly what happens to me. I wish they had a name for it because it is not hammer bite. Worse both the hammer and the grip safety on my gun have spurs.

 

[Skylerbone]

Oxpho-Blue and a little kerosene.

 

[drband]

Absolutely beautiful grips but I don't want to change the look, and in fact, maybe should not mess with this gun at all as it is very much replicating the actual gun the military used. I could someday get a second 1911 if I want to have the fancy beaver tail and other such stuff. Really a file to the bottom of the grip safety tang and I think I might have the problem solved, but then I lose the bluing.

Oxpho-Blue and a little kerosene.

I agree with @Skylerbone that oxpho-blue will take care of the filing/refinish. You’ll never notice it. Reapply as needed.

 

[Rock185]

In years past, I did all manner of things, bob hammer, soften edges of hammer and grip safety, change to Commander type hammer with a fitted grip safety that required a radius on the frame, etc. About the easiest thing was to buy one of those inelegant wide paddle safeties Colt used to sell. Occasionally these need fitting, just as any other grip safety might. But these are an easy and inexpensive fix to spread out recoil on the web of the shooting hand, without any permanent modification to the gun itself.

 

[Navy87Guy]

You need to figure out what radius the tangs on the back of the Charles Daly frame have and get a grip safety to match. The standard ones are .220” or .250”. If the safety doesn’t match the curve, then either there will be a gap (functional, but ugly) or it will be too tight and the safety won’t be able to pivot (non-functional).

There really is no such thing as a “drop in” grip safety. You will probably have to adjust the tab that engages the trigger and do a bit of filing to get it to work properly.

 

[Slamfire]

Wow, why am I buying books on 1911s. I can just read your posts. Great info!

That Clark 180 looks great and does not change the GI look near as much as the typical larger beavertail.

Full auto from landing on the cocked hammer. Yikes! That sounds horrible. Can't happen if the thumb safety is on though, right.

I continue to read from the inprint crowd, and now the internet persuaders, that the thumb safety is a hammer blocking safety. It is not.

This is a good article on the 1911 safeties.


1911 & M1903 Colt Pistols - Safety and Design

https://indiansforguns.com/viewtopic.php?t=22009

There has been much discussion on IFG regarding the safety of John Browning's 1911 pistol and also of the Ashani, which is based on the Colt M1903 "Pocket Pistol."
I cannot address the Ashani, having not examined one, however I will discuss some aspects of the M1903 Pocket Pistol.
The first concept that needs to be addressed is the inertia firing pin of the 1911 and the later M1903. Is it safe to carry the 1911 "cocked and locked," i.e., a round in the chamber, hammer cocked, and the safety applied? Is i safe to carry the M1903 in this same condition?
The answer, in most cases, is "NO."
Here is a picture of the 1911 action, showing the firing pin:

This well written article shows in pictures and words, that the grip safety and the thumb safety are trigger/sear blocking safeties. That is, they block the trigger from the sear.

The grip safety blocks the trigger, not the hammer.



Your physical being is dependent on the mechanical integrity of that little sear in that notch If that sear breaks, the thumb safety does not block the hammer.




I find interesting John Browning knew this, and offered this feature in his "thumb safety" patent.



John Browning claims these features would prevent sear breakage and thus make it safe to carry the pistol, "cocked and locked". These features are not in current or past 1911's. The Army did not want this feature in their pistol. I am of the opinion that the senior Officers around the table all had accidental discharge stories about half cocks, cap and ball pistols, and Colt SAA's. I am very sure that the assembled experts did not trust a fully energized firing mechanism held back by a thin piece of steel. Neither do I.

However as much as I don't trust cocked and locked, and can point to, and have heard a number of negligent discharge stories with cocked and locked 1911's, the numbers are nothing compared to the rate of accidental discharges with striker fired pistols. The shooting community has eagerly gone from unsafe to insanely unsafe mechanisms in a heart beat.

This is a NYC Subway poster. There are about 175 fentanyl deaths a day. However, be proud you are using fentanyl wisely.

Am I living in a Mad House?

 

[jar]

That is exactly what happens to me. I wish they had a name for it because it is not hammer bite. Worse both the hammer and the grip safety on my gun have spurs.

So today I took my Tisas Tanker with a $20.00 set of Magpul MOE grips to the range. I ran 38 rounds of 230 ball 45acp through fairly rapidly just to see if I got the bruise at the rear of the webbing between thumb and first finger. Took 3x7 rounders and 2x8 rounders plus one in the chamber. That way there was no break time reloading magazines and so no recovery time for the hand.

The result was fantastic, no mark, no bruise, no pinch, no discomfort; simply a joy to shoot and at 7 yards not a single hole outside the nine ring. Still the hole was slightly to the left of center but given the just post WWI era sights (the 1911A1 was adopted in the late 1920s IIRC) as well as my own Gen-U-Wine WWII issued MK1 eyes was acceptable.

 

[Howland937]

I like really grippy grips, so every 1911 and 1911 variant I currently own has Hogue Piranha grips now. I've probably got 20 sets of this or that 1911 grips laying around, including the factory ones I can reinstall in like 3 minutes. Grips are the easiest thing to change and change back on a 1911 without permanent alterations.

If you like the looks but not how it shoots, get some shootable grips for shooting and put the stock stocks back on for admiring.

 

[aaaaa]

Oxpho-Blue and a little kerosene.

Well I just used the Birchwood Super Black touch up pen for now. I filed it some and it seemed to help, no black and blue, but still made a mark. That was shooting a lot of rounds. I can't remember when I put the glove on, but must have shot 50 without it. There is a lot more material I could take off to angle it up more. Just got tired of filing for now.

Here it is after some filing of the bottom and back of the grip safety spur.

This is not my gun, but what it originally looked like:

 

[Slamfire]

Well I just used the Birchwood Super Black touch up pen for now. I filed it some and it seemed to help, no black and blue, but still made a mark. That was shooting a lot of rounds. I can't remember when I put the glove on, but must have shot 50 without it. There is a lot more material I could take off to angle it up more. Just got tired of filing for now.

Here it is after some filing of the bottom and back of the grip safety spur.

This is not my gun, but what it originally looked like:
View attachment 1116470

This is where the hammer hits on my Rock Island






I much prefer the hammer hitting the grip safety than my hand.

 

[jar]

His issue is not with the hammer but rather with the grip safety hitting his hand hard enough to cause a bruise.

I had the same problem with my Commander sized Tisas Tanker but changing to better fitting more aggressive grips cured the problem.