Aluminum base shells jam my 870P

[john l]

Bought an 870P a while back. Great gun. real smooth. Hates Winchester aluminum base shotshells. causes major indigestion.
The first time the gun jammed up on me was at a 3 gun match, of course. I was using some brass based Winchester rounds of low brass birdshot. Then the gun totally chokes on the alum. base.
OK, cleaned the barrel real good because members here mentioned it could be plastic wad buildup. Then went back to the range and shot some more of the same stuff: winchester alum. base. # XU128. Same thing, started to jam about 1 in 5 rounds
I picked up a spent shell that jammed, and placed it back in the chamber, and it slid right in until it got to the alum. base, and then you could see that the alum. base had expanded to the point that I would have to use force to put it back in the chamber. OK, now I am getting somewhere.
I got another box of the same , XU128, and took off my 870 barrel. Used the barrel as a case guage, and tested all 25 rounds. 2 out of 25 rounds would not even chamber all the way, because from the beginning, the alum base was too big. Now, with a tad of force, these 2 rounds will chamber. So what I did was marked the 2 rounds with a magic marker. I will shoot the box this week to see if the 2 rounds stick, or others, or the whole damn box.
I am coming to the conclusion that this 870 doesn't like alum. base shells. If that is the case, then I need to make sure that I just shoot brass base shells in the gun. Not the end of the world, knowledge is power. For 99% of the times that I have shot low brass loads, I haven't had a problem.
One of my friends has the same problem with his 870 express home defense shotgun, and now I am reading similar problems with other members of THR.
Perhaps it is as simple as writing a letter to winchester and asking them to give me a 1000 rounds of brass based loads for my mental anquish. ha ha.
I havent had any problem with high brass buckshot or high brass slug loads.
john l.

 

[tango3065]

Thats odd both of my 870's love the cheap winchester aluminum based shells. I fired off over 300 hundred rounds last dove season in one and never had a problem, my 870p has also had a bunch ran thru without a problem.

 

[sm]

Humm

Couple of thoughts/ ideas.

-Is this a new or used 870P?

-Measure one of these Al based and compare to a known shell that does feed. Could be a bad lot and if so contact Win.

-Could always have the chamber measured and see if out of spec, especially if should happen with another shell, with brass.

I have seen bad lots, no matter if even brass , I just put the new shell in a Mec and resized it before using.

-Chambers can vary, for instance some target shooters don't re-size all the way down, shell will run in pump but not in their O/U.

I haven't run a AL shell in awhile. I wonder if these promo loads do as other do...as the old paper shells sometimes did. IF exposed to heat/humidity slight swelling would prevent a good feed.

I always competed with my reloads for competition done on a single stage MEC. Different game I played- reliabilty was still the reason why I did it.

I have been known when required to use new shells, even paper...to have a referee watch me [ and others like me] run these thru a Mec to make sure, re- box, seal box with 2 witnesses signatures.

 

[proven]

my 870p has seen quite a bit of the win bulk stuff which i assume is the aluminum based shells to which you are referring. as mastinson said, never had a glitch. the only time mine has jammed was the very first box that i shot with a cousin, and that was because he "short shucked" it.

brian

 

[dickwholliday]

We had somethng similar today at the trap range.....this guy had a new 870 classic trap.....the cheap remington shells would fire ok but then you couldn't get most of them out of the chamber....they would lock the gun up bigtime....you'd have to lift the extractor off the base to get the bolt back....here's the funny part..yu could take the same shell and it would go right back into the chamber with no forcing or whatever.....i took a box of my Winchster AA reloads and they functioned perfectly in the gun......any ideas???? DICK

 

[flip180]

I had the same thing happen last week.

I was shooting the Winchester value pack with the aluminum rim out of my 870 express home defense and, they would stick in the chamber. Sometimes I would have to slam the butstock on the ground to get the shell to extract.

Flip

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

My Smith and Wesson 916 shotgun is the same way. I thought it was something specific to this shotgun, I guess not! And I have the big ol' 100 shell bulk pack from Wal Mart too.

It functioned fine with Remington brass shells, but suffered failures to eject at least once per five rounds with the Al base Winchester stuff. I would have to reach in and pull the shell out manually. Usually it wasn't much problem, but it does put on the brakes when firing.

Guess I will just have to buy the slightly more expensive stuff if I want to shoot it.

 

[JNewell]

Based on my observations using CCI Blazer ammo, I'm guessing that the problem is that the aluminum head expands (as brass does) when fired, but does not "shrink" back to a smaller diameter, hence making for sticky extraction. If the chamber is not very clean, that would probably make matters worse, since there's stuff for the aluminum to get a "grip" on.

 

[john l]

Well, took out my 870P out again today, and got some positive results.
First off, the winchester XU128 still jammed 1 out of 5 times. (Aluminum base).
Second, ESTATE brand aluminum base cheapie stuff ( Sportsman's Warehouse $3.35/box of 25 ) functions flawlessly in the 870P. Again, this lends creedence to the fact that the winchester's quality control may suck just a little more than all the others. I know, it is their cheapest shell, but still, I'm not the only one having this problem.
Third, Remington STS brass based shells ran fine. This is their light trap load.
Fourth, Winchester AA's brass based ran fine.
Important note: This gun has always shot high brass loads perfectly. And that's what I would and will use for Home Defense. Mostly, I was looking for brands that are inexpensive to shoot.
So, my conclusion is simple: There are cheap shell options for my type of shooting (3 gun ), but they don't say "Winchester" on the box.

And to SM: thanks for the idea to use steel wool on a drill chuck. I made one according to your description and it works great.
thanks,
john l

 

[axeman_g]

seen it

I have the same issue with my Ithaca 37. Can not eject the spent cartridge and chamber the next shell without really yanking on the forend a few times. Happened with S&B also.

Stopped buying the stuff, shoot only fiochii or Win AA in it now.

 

[sm]

john l

Thank Bob Brister, I got that tip from him and many others too numerous to mention. Reason why I suggest the book so much.

Thanks for sharing guys, I learn...still learning and I do so from good folks like you.

Most folks at my age [49] go through what is known as "middle age crazy". The old joke is they want cool car and the hot lady.

Me...I'm going through that dealie where life ain't the way it used to be and I don't like where it is and headed. Yeah - I know about that acceptance dealie.

My point is stuff used to built a certain way, with quality, service and respect. A person paid a fair price and got an honest product.

Firearms and ammo "used to" be made to spec's and QC implemented. Now-a-days the customer is expected to do the QC, T&E on spec's and performance.

I promised myself upon turning 50 next April, I would Skydive to celebrate. I'm hoping to find a cache of Firearms made in the 50's, 60's and 70's , along with the ammo...like a bunch of AA loads made in the 70's ...as I drift down.
I don't the want/need the high maintanence of a cool car or the hot lady...gimmee the quality of yesteryear instead.

Maybe I'm just crazy and happen to be middle age...

 

[moorerwc]

I had a major lock up of my 870P

Last time we tried to hand throw clay birds. It was with Fed. AL base Walmart value pack--hadn't thought of it being the ammo until this thread--shell failed to extract and slide locked closed-had to take the whole thing apart at the house.

-Chad

 

[sm]

I still contend to let the ammo mfgs know about this. Include lot #'s as well.

If new guns are having problems, have that chamber checked - for SAFETY first, then fuss at the firearm mfg.

We have to educate the mfgs that we "ain't stupid" and we won't tolerate a potential problem. SAFETY problem including the fact the gun won't run if used for defensive needs if chamber out of spec, or injury to shooter.

As moderator Johnny Guest pointed out in another thread, WE the gun owners have been fighting in the Political/Legal arena for MFG protection against all sorts of things , including frivolus lawsuits against them. It is the intent of user, not the tool.

Remind the mfg of this and yes you do know to how to properly clean a chamber and do so.

Armed with education, facts and documention ( the gunsmith's measurements for instance on chambers, photo of shell casing while still in gun...) is the only way to get better products for the hard earned monies we spend.

 

[had]

my 10 year old 870 has never liked the low brass cheap stuff. i have shot 1000's of rounds in that gun i always lived with it. it was my dove gun. it would jam once a box or so. when i took it quail hunting few years back i had to use steel shot high brass and it never jamed and it has since been through 2 duck seasons with no jams guess its the low brass.

had

 

[Gearhead Jim]

Actually, the "aluminium" on the Walmart Value Pack shells is nickel plated steel. I just checked all three brands (WW, Rem, Fed) with a magnet and it sticks to the rim with enthusiasm.

That does not change the fact that some shells may have oversize heads, or that the steel head does not return toward normal size as well as a brass head will do.