Aluminum Can home defense

[DWS1117]

My Brother in law and Sister in law (wife's sis) were over to the house last night. Now remember the are very much anti-gun (SIL shot herself in the leg with a .22 rifle a few years ago), although they can't tell you exactly why. We were sitting at the table playing cards and shootin the stuff when they brought up that thier 18-month old daughter had destroyed their home alarm system. We were obviously a bit copnfused as to how an 18 month old could do this and the SIL went on to explain that the BIL has taken to rigging some system where a bunch of cans will make a racket if someone comes into thier house. At this revelation I couldn't hold back ( much to my wife's ddissapointment. She is a fence sitter but supporst my passion). I asked them what they were going to do if this system worked and someone came inthier house? Are they going to call the cops? The only thing they have in thier house that could pass for a weapon is a BB rifle and a baseball bat. Both are in the closet next to the front door which more than likely any BG will be between them and thier only means of defense. Also thier front and back doors are both just a wood frame with a 6' pane of glass. Easy for even a large person to get through. I may have been a little over bearing. I kept asking what would they do if..... The only answer they could give was "I don't know."

They know that I have guns. I offererd to take them out to the range and show some of mine and teach them a little about guns and gun safety. I think that I have gotten them thinking. Hopefully I can continue that thought process.

Any pointers on helping them. Also for future reference, how could I have handled this situation better?

 

[longtom4570]

I hope you have offered to take them shooting? I would also go over to their house and show them what the weak areas are,and show them how to defend them self and their daughter. Tell them to think of the child as to her saftey. I think you handled it pretty well tho

 

[C.R.Sam]

Well handled.
You and the 18 mo old may have teamed up to get them thinking.
Thinking leads to asking.
Asking leads to learning.
Ergo.....soon much safer.

Sheep not much on thinking.
So they bleat a lot but learn little.

Sam

 

[4v50 Gary]

Gee, men have strung up cans on wire as defensive measures since WW I. Don't know about the Civil War but wires were stretched out between stakes to impede an attack. Nonetheless, sappers and trench raiders learned how to contend with them back then. It's only an alarm system and a dog will do better.

Dog first and then gun. Bow-wow tells you that you'll need the pony (Colt) to restore order.

 

[Baba Louie]

I like the dog idea, if its a sweet tempered one due to 18 mo. old (terrible 2's coming up) and their ability to test one's limits (like a puppies tolerance for baby b.s.).

Have mom and dad move baseball bat into their bedroom, buy them some O.C. spray (larger than a keychain type...Fox preferably).

Everyone knows how to wield a knife, a cheap machete can be had at the hardware store for less than $20, they're not too sharp (baby safety) but can do the job if need be. Ask SIL what she would do to someone who tried to harm your neice. She knows knives if she cooks.

I hesitate to recommend a firearm with a toddler around and their attitude, but... why not? I grew up in a house that had (ahem) more than one firearm and I never found it or played with it (OK them) as a yout. Even a single shot 20 ga. shotgun will scare off BG or do damage if babies life is in danger.

Walk the house with BIL and SIL (inside and out) and point out how YOU would get in if you were a BG.

Outside motion sensor lights? Faux Alarm Co. stickers on doors/windows?

You and your wife could give them a "gift" for your peace of mind as it is your neice. Pepper spray and motion sensor lights wouldn't break the bank, nor would a puppy (maintenance factor there tho').

And yes, invite BIL out shooting once in awhile busting clay pigeons or .22 plinking. All he can say is NO. No problem there.

Points to ponder.

Besides that, a kid could get hurt on old alum cans...

Adios

 

[DWS1117]

Thanks to everyone for your comments.

Baba Louie

I agree with all of your points.

Firearms in the house with children shouldn't be an issue if they are kept responsibly. My guns are locked up if they are not on my person.

I know they are not rabid antis because we all lived together for about a year in thier house. They knew that I have guns and never objected.

The BIL has not ever really been exposed to guns. There were none around while he was growing up. Hi attitude toward guns is more of a "that's what they say on TV and the newspaper so it must be right."

Now the SIL is a different story. She and my wife were raised with very liberal anti parents. (MIL would have a heart attack if she knew how many guns were in the same house as her grandson) Both my wife and her sis were exposed to a few rifles that the grandparents had out at their farm. They both used to shoot the .22 rifles while they were small and into thier early 20's. That all changed (along with thier attitudes) when SIL was doing something stupid and shot herself in the leg with the rifle. As I understand what happened, she was using the rifle as a wlking stick while walking up the hill. She slipped and the rifle "went off":banghead:

None of those rifles had even seen the outside of he closet for seven more years until I married into the family. I have claimed them as "mine" even though they do not technically belong to me.

I know there is hope at least for the SIL because she has expressed interest in trying to shoot again. I thing she is more scared guns than politically motivated. She doesn't want to shoot in a public place. So if we can ever arrange our sceduals where we are at the farm at the same time I will remind her of her desires.

Please keep the comments comming.

 

[fourdeuce82d]

welll...doubt they'd like this idea either, but it would work....


get a four foot length of hard dowel (oak?) an inch or so in diameter and mount a K-BAR on one end. practice thrusting with short, punchy moevements at the groin/bowel area.


keep it under the bed. Obviously a gun is better, but against an unarmed/knife wielding attacker it would give you the advantage.

 

[Standing Wolf]

If they're too dumb to defend their own lives, maybe they'd at least defend their toddling daughter's?

Not having firearms in the house is a lot like not having flash lights and a first aid kit.

 

[Chipperman]

So she shot herself by doing something stupid. That is obviously the Gun's fault.

What if she had cut herself scratching her back with a Chef's knife. Would she be Anti-Knife as well? I doubt it. :banghead:

 

[duckfoot]

Heavy inward opening metal fire door, reinforced frame, brace lock etc....... installed at the top of the staircase and a 12 gauge under the bed. Worked for my 19 year old sister and her roommates during a break in at their house. Told her to start blasting if the sucker broke that down. The door was scarred up a little; you can't get a lot of leverage on stairs. So when the cops showed up nothing was missing, but the bad guy left lots of finger prints on the stair railing. Seems that this waste of flesh lived down the street and was charged for attempted rape before.

He'll be out in two years

I believe that a house is a castle and you might have to repell borders at one point or another. And making a house secure in small or large ways gives a home owner more choices in defending themselves. As I was once told that if all you have a hammer then every problem starts looking like a nail.

 

[0007]

Guns and small children are not a problem IF THE CHILDREN BEING RAISED IN THE HOUSE HAVE BEEN TAUGHT THE MEANING OF THE WORD "NO" AT AN EARLY AGE. But if "parents" insist on not doing a proper job in rearing their little animals; then oh, yeah, guns - or for that matter almost anything sharp, hot, wet, electric, etc. - becomes a problem.
:banghead:

 

[twoblink]

First, as far as the baby issue. A gun is on your persons or locked up. If there is a baby in the house (especially 2 years old) at NO TIME should the be unsupervised. If that rule is broken, then all bets are off.. and so I can't stand it when people (irresponsible people) make that arguement.

Also, more kids drown, get killed from strangulation on mini-blind strings, sufficate from plastic bags, or drown in 5 gallon buckets than die from guns.. Just remember statistically, all this happened due to lack of supervision...


Second, people who have kids are MUCH more open to guns I find, which is contrary to initial belief.

Most women don't think of their husbands as "needing to be protected" although it is often the fact simply because if a bad guy comes in, and he's going to hurt someone, the husband is usually the first target, meaning the wife usually has to pick up the slack if it really is a life or death situation.

That said, a person (female's) attitude COMPLETELY changes when they have a child. Now they have something to protect.

Do you know why Spartan Men left the women to defend the fort? Because they knew one of two things would happen when they returned, the women successfully fended off the enemies or they died trying. Women don't surrender when their young is at stake. Anybody who believes otherwise has never been a mother or met one..

That said, The most first scenerio you need to ask is:

"You hear your aluminum can alarm go off.. You hear the back sliding door break.. There's an intruder coming in who wants to kill you, your husband, and your child.. There are two items on the nighstand: A cell phone, and a gun. Which will KEEP YOUR CHILD ALIVE??"

If they say a cell phone. Don't bother talking to them..

But if they say a gun, then you say "As a responsible parent then, you need to learn how to use it properly.. I am more than happy to teach you. I will introduce you to the concept of a gun, how it functions, I will take it apart for you to see that it's just like a hammer, nothing to be afraid off if you take the time to understand it and learn to use it for what it was intended to be. We will start with a gun that is small, until you are comfortable, and we can move up. Don't worry, this isn't a "hurry" thing, we can take as long as it takes YOU to feel comfortable."

Make an appointment for the range, PRESCREEN the range, (don't put her next to a booth where someone is firing .44Mag's from a 3" revolver where the flash will make you blind) Take a .22LR and teach her with that.

DOUBLE UP ON THE HEARING.

Let me repeat that:

DOUBLE UP ON THE HEARING: PLUGS AND MUFFS!!

This (I have found) is the single most important thing when taking a newbie to the range.. Worth mentioning a third time. DOUBLE UP ON THE HEARING.

And go from there. .22LR's have NO KICK from any gun you can possibly find, and so recoil and flinching won't be a problem.

Go from there.. The door is open... they are intrigued..

 

[Majic]

First develop a defensive program with them that doesn't require a gun. Learning to use a gun requires time, using a gun under a stressful situation requires even more time. Something could happen in this time period, so a defense is required NOW.
Next try the idea of gun ownership on them. If they balk at the idea leave it alone. Not all will use a gun and even though we gun owners understand the merits of one we still have to respect their rights. If they are interested then by all means educate them on storage, care, and the actual capabilities of guns. Show them the pros and cons of the different actions and find a suitable model they both can use. Strongly encourage practice, but find a fun way to practice (as in plinking various objects) to keep their interest up. Paper shooting is educational, but boring. Plinking reactive targets where they can readily see the results will always be more fun to a new shooter.

 

[hso]

http://www.securityplanet.com/alarms-ta.htm is one source for portable alarm equipment that can be used to alarm doors and windows instead of a central alarm system. Add some smoke detectors to instill the sense that they are protecting their child and themselves from all sorts of dangers that might come up. Work on a security plan that has them keeping a cell phone in the bed room. Even if it isn't connected to a service it will raise 911 when needed. Help them develop an evacuation plan - who gets the baby, where's the flashlight, what route to take, where to go. They can use this in a fire as well as a break in. I agree with the dog recommendation, but advise getting a young female to grow with the child or a mature female that will adopt the "pink puppy".

If they participate in working up a plan and practicing it they may be able to work towards the question of what to do if the alarm goes off and I can't get my wife and child to safety? This will lead to inevitable conclusion that they need some means of self defense that will be effective.

Good luck.

 

[eoR]

Ask them if they trust themselves to learn to responsibly use and store a gun less than they would trust the goodwill of a criminal invading their home.

 

[Hemicuda]

Ummm... Kids & guns...

My fathers method of dealing W/ this was to make GOOD & SURE that there was LOTS of them around... and then to teach my sis & I all about them...

I NEVER got into them, and NEVER got into trouble W/ them... they were a "fact of life"... and my the time I was 4, I HAD a bb-gun... and at 5 or so, a .22 that was ALL MINE! (well, I hadta share W/ sis...)

it was NOTHING to grab it, and a case, walk the 1.5 blocks to the sporting goods store, grab a box or 3 of 22.s (on dads credit slip) and carry all that another block to the indoor range (letting myself in with MY OWN key) if nobody was there... (i waited for an adult to show up, if none were there) and spend an afternoon punchin' paper... AND, if nobody was there, I'd go "sift lead" outta the botom of the traps, and walk it back to that sporting goods store, where they paid me $1.00/pound (taken out in the form of more ammunition!)

NOWADAYS my father would be strung up for letting a 5 or 6 year old do that, and they'd jail the sporting goods store owner for giving me the .22 ammo...

but it DID keep me outta trouble!

(this walk to the store & range was THROUGH downtown, btw)

whatta life that was!

 

[Parker Dean]

I kinda agree with the dog recommendation. Only kinda since I'm not big on indoors dogs but I did learn the usefullness of one a couple of years ago.

It wasn't anything big that happened. I was living with some friends helping out with a house payment they couldn't afford at the time. they had a boxer and some scaredy-cat rat terrier thing. I came to notice that if I heard something and there wasn't a response from the dogs I could relax. Conversely if they reacted I would stay on alert until they relaxed.

It was usually the rat terrier thing going nuts over some noise outside, probably possums. The boxer almost never barked and I just about had the impression that he'd sleep through a nuclear detonation, but when both reacted I knew something was up.

They had a couple of toddlers too and I just didn't trust the terrier with the kids. It was always running around like it was scared to death. The boxer OTOH was very good with the kids and they'd play on him like some sort of playground equipment. He'd look at me like "Help Me". But if he was going somewhere to check something out he did't care who was in the way. Knocked the kids down several times going to check out who came in (busy house).