American Select and the 45 colt

[Doc.Holliday]

Please forgive me if I am resurrecting an old thread but I just bought a pound of American Select powder for use in my Ruger Blackhawk and Rossi Trapper; both in 45 colt.
I have not found much reloading data in my manuals or from alliant for this powder. It is supposed to be between Red and Green Dot in burn rate.
I used to use 6.5 gr of Red Dot or 7.1 gr of green dot under my own 242 gr cast bullets and a WLP primer. Neither of these Dot powders are available to me now.
If anybody has experimented and has developed loads for the 45 colt with this powder , their advice would be greatly appreciated. Sure hope this powder shortage comes to an end soon.
Doc

 

[LiveLife]

Current Alliant load data only shows 230 gr load on their website - http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...owderlist.aspx&type=3&powderid=2&cartridge=15

But 2004 Alliant load data has 160/180/200/225/230/250 gr loads for 45Colt and 45Colt Cowboy Action (pages 44 & 45 of pdf) - http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

Perhaps you can reference 250 gr load data for your 242 gr cast bullets.

 

[Doc.Holliday]

Thank you kindly, looks like American Select is used in only low pressure loads, according to That Alliant info.
Doc

 

[rsrocket1]

Correct. American Select is right up there with Red Dot, Clay Dot, e3 and Extra Lite in terms of speed. They build up pressure very quickly and won't drive the bullet very fast. Excellent for low weight 12 gauge shotgun loads and low velocity/low recoil handgun loads. Great as a substitute for Trail Boss except you don't have the safety factor of a bulky powder that you can't double charge.

Apparently Alliant is no longer publishing handgun loads using their "primarily shotgun" powders and vice-versa. Fortunately for us reloaders, there's the perpetual Internet "paper trail".

 

[LiveLife]

Fortunately for us reloaders, there's the perpetual Internet "paper trail".

Alliant/ATK (now Vista Outdoor) pulled the 2004 load data from their servers but as long as THR servers remain viable, it will be available for future generations of reloaders.

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=182147&d=1364769070

 

[Doc.Holliday]

I received a PM that I could use load data from Red Dot safely and up to mid Green Dot loads.
I will proceed slowly. Thanks kindly

 

[LiveLife]

Doc.Holliday, following are max charges from 2004 Alliant load data for 250 gr lead bullet at 1.550":

Red Dot Max 6.0 gr (830 fps) 12K PSI
American Select Max 5.5 gr (795 fps) 13K PSI
Green Dot Max 6.8 gr (855 fps) 12.3K PSI

Personally, I would not advise anyone to use load data for a different powder.

As many reloaders suggest, using 10% reduction would give you around 5.0 gr as start charge for American Select with 5.5 gr as max charge.

But 2004 Alliant load data also lists following Cowboy Action load for 250 gr RNFP bullet at 1.580":

Red Dot Start 5.0 gr (680 fps) - Max 6.0 gr (757 fps)
American Select Start 5.0 gr (650 fps) - Max 6.5 gr (767 fps)

Anyone more familiar with these loads care to comment why the discrepancy in the load data?

My guess is the shape of the bullet with differing seating depth but something doesn't make sense.

Doc.Holliday, what shape is your 242 gr bullet?

 

[Doc.Holliday]

Thank-you bds. Got your PM.
My bullet is a RNFP flat base; It is a RCBS 235 gr die that actually averages 242 gr when sized and lubed for me.
Not looking to more velocity than my old Red Dot load which was 6.6 gr and averaged about 1020 fps in my Rossi and 860 in the Ruger.
I will start low and slow and stop real quick.
Doc.

 

[LiveLife]

It is a RNFP Flat base 235 gr RCBS die that casts my boolits at 242 average when sized and lubed.

2004 Alliant load data lists 5.8 gr max American Select for 230 gr RN at 1.550" and 810 fps (so your RNFP will have shallower seating depth at same OAL).

Still Cowboy Action load listing 6.5 gr as max charge for American Select with 250 gr RNFP at 1.550" is confusing. Maybe it's different lead alloy used?

What alloy are you using?

Perhaps load up 5.0/5.5/5.8 gr and see what the chrono shows?

 

[Doc.Holliday]

Finally got to testing today.
American Select works closer to Green Dot than Red Dot in my guns.
I went up to 7.0 grains with no pressure signs at all and velocity very close to my 7.0 grain green dot load. Recoil felt noticeably softer and report not as sharp. Very clean.
Doc.