America's safest place, even Cops don't have guns

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http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/07/08/osha.guns/index.html


Princeton can keep its cops unarmed, OSHA says


(UWIRE) -- Princeton University's policy of not allowing its officers to carry guns on campus doesn't hurt the officers' ability to do their jobs, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration ruled.

OSHA closed the case on June 24 after ruling on June 20 that Princeton had complied with OSHA regulations.

The complaint, filed by Public Safety Fraternal Orders of Police's president and patrolman James Lanzi, alleged that the policy of not allowing Public Safety officers to carry guns was an occupational hazard.

Lanzi has been publicly pushing for the institution to arm trained Public Safety officers since early 2008.

"It's a safety-and-health issue, a matter of our ability to respond to something -- that's the basis for the complaint," Lanzi told the Times of Trenton earlier this week.

An informal complaint

The complaint was treated informally because Princeton did not meet the criteria for the on-site inspections conducted for formal complaints, OSHA spokeswoman Leni Uddyback-Fortson said. These criteria include the existence of a likely or imminent danger and previous OSHA citations, according to OSHA's web site.

"Basically, the complaint itself alleged that the University was not providing its 22 police officers with the necessary tools that would allow them to do their job safely," Uddyback-Fortson said.

OSHA treated the action as an informal complaint, allowing the school five days to respond in writing whether the allegation was valid or invalid, she said. OSHA found the university did provide the training and the personal protective equipment that was required by OSHA standards.

Public Safety officers currently carry batons, handcuffs and a substance similar to pepper spray. They also wear bulletproof vests.

A June 19 letter submitted to OSHA by Princeton noted that "two state courts have considered this identical issue, and both have dismissed the complaints" on the grounds that OSHA has no specific standards for equipping employees with firearms as "personal protective equipment."

Princeton's letter was referring to similar complaints filed against the University of Wisconsin and the University of Northern Iowa, both of which were ultimately dismissed by state courts.

Princeton went on to cite a Department of Justice survey stating that, as of 2004-05, only 30 percent of private colleges and universities nationwide with sworn police officers had armed public safety officers.

"For some colleges and universities, the right policy is to arm their public safety officers, but we believe that would not be the right policy for Princeton, at least for now," Princeton spokeswoman Cass Cliatt said.

Princeton officials have said if an armed on-campus response is necessary the Princeton Borough and Princeton Township police departments will be able to adequately handle the situation.

"When there is a need for an armed officer in a situation that is potentially violent, we work with the Borough or Township to have them respond; that is one of our unique characteristics with our location between two municipalities," Cliatt said.

Cliatt said the Princeton believes it is fully compliant with all OSHA regulations and that arming Public Safety officers could harm the relationship between students and officers.

In a March 3 column, however, Lanzi said that Public Safety officers would not be able to adequately respond to an "active shooter situation" on campus, such as the recent tragedies at Northern Illinois University and Virginia Tech.

"Princeton's security plan eliminates an extremely valuable resource by not properly equipping Princeton University police officers with the necessary tools to protect themselves and the community," he wrote.

Uddyback-Fortson says the union is not prohibited from filing another complaint.

"There's nothing that says that they can't file again," she said



"if I can change... and you can change... everybody can change!"




See, if Cops give up their guns, and criminals give up their guns, we can be a completely safe world.
 
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Why is it that the stupidest people in the universe are so often affiliated with the academic world?
 
Issue them a couple ink pens and lots of paper. If there is ever a VT style active shooter, they will have a lot of report writing to do once the bad guy runs out of ammo.
 
... They also wear bulletproof vests...

If all guns are banned, including those of the police, then why in the world would they need bullet proof vests?? If vests are warranted due to the remote possibility that someone might *gasp* not follow the gun ban, then perhaps *another gasp* the good guys should get guns so they can handle that situation? :what:

:banghead:

-Raystonn
 
Do we really want OSHA writing regulations about firearms as personal protective equipment?

Think of the precedent that would set. Some bureaucrat, totally ignorant of the issue picking out what firearm, holster and ammunition someone who was armed at work would have to use. Every no-guts, firearms illiterate, politically appointed administrator would hide behind those OSHA regs. Ammunition development would grind to a halt. Things like upgrades to semi-autos from revolvers, patrol rifles and other weapons choices would be in the hands of an unthinking federal bureaucracy....:banghead:

What was he thinking?

Jeff
 
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See if there's a school shooting, you won't be charged with murder if you shoot the bad guy.


However, you will be fined $15,000 by OSHA for violation of regulations.

.
 
OSHA is a joke any who. What gives them the right to tell you, you can't carry a weapon, when you do SECURITY? Would they prefer them to carry a flashlight to "shine something down."
 
kentucky bucky, come walk a yard with me, when you KNOW everyone there is a convicted felon! :) No, I agree, for a police officer to be deliberately unarmed is to make him/her into a target, and for these "officials" to agree with this policy borders on criminal in my mind.
 
While I am personally on the side of the officers/security people on this one, I have to agree with OSHA that this really isnt a matter for them.

This is something that seems to me to be more the domain of getting your contract with the school to allow guns, and if they wont, then either the company shouldnt take the job (and get the union to get other companies to back them by not taking it), or let the courts hash it out with a civil suit.

I also have to agree with Jeff White about not WANTING guns to become OSHA's business.as he points out, seems like very bad juju.

also, unless I'm not seeing something in the article that others appear to be, it doesnt sound to me like OSHA said anything about the officers cant, or even shouldnt be armed, they just said that firearms was basically not thier businees when it come to workplace safety regulations.I happen to agree with them.
 
Actually, I am glad the cops are staying unarmed. If we can't be armed, they shouldn't either.
 
Why is it that the stupidest people in the universe are so often affiliated with the academic world?

theory to practice.....

they sit in their little dream world campus utopia bubbles and write papers....

not to many professors I ever studied under ever held a "real" (non academic) job.
 
Actually, I am glad the cops are staying unarmed. If we can't be armed, they shouldn't either.

There's no reason to say that. I agree that we should also be allowed to be armed but when you say things like that, you're nor much better than your average liberal gun grabber. Besides, all though there are a lot of restrictions, most states do allow you to be armed.
 
abrink,

Would you rather have a special protected class that can do things we the people cannot? What I am advocating is that the law be applied equally. Now, if you want to equate me to a liberal gun grabber without knowing anything about what I have done for the RKBA, that is your call, newbie who as far as I know has done nothing other than type on a message board.
 
That's some insanity Princeton has talked themselves into. They give the officers batons, OC, handcuffs and protective vests.. then turn around and say that there's no reason for them to have a gun? Well then what are the batons, OC, handcuffs and vests for?

Of course, now that this is in the news, every two bit thug for fifty miles around is going to be making a bee line to Princeton.
 
You know, ten years ago, I could see a ruling like this. But holy God, after Virginia Tech, the Illinois shooting, and however many others, you'd think these people would get a clue.

The University of Texas campus security carries a night-sighted Glock in 40 S&W, with multiple mags for quick reloads. They also carry OC and a Taser. The squad cars are equipped with AR-15s and/or Remington 870s.

That's how you equip campus security; not be giving them a freaking metal stick and saying, "good luck".

Princeton's security policy is reviewed through the period eye of the early 1990s.
 
Recipe for disaster, in my opinion. Every campus shooter thus far has been found to be on legalized brain dope. Do we hear about that from the media? No..... Go after big Pharma and leave our guns alone.
 
F*ck, the madness from England is already making it's way stateside. I can understand people wanting to disarm the public. Don't misunderstand what I'm saying by that. It is 100% wrong, unconstitutional, and downright evil but I can understand how people can get into the frame of mind that they want to disarm the public. It is certainly a form of mental illness. However disarming the police?! Whoever could possibly think that is truly a moron beyond the possibility of redemption.
 
My local community college, the keystone cops there are not allowed firearms either which may be a good thing.
 
"Princeton officials have said if an armed on-campus response is necessary the Princeton Borough and Princeton Township police departments will be able to adequately handle the situation."

See, it says right there that Princeton police are armed. I think they should lay off the campus guards since they have the situation under control.

:)
 
i hate new jersey, lol.
We all do, well i do at least. I escaped in 1990 and my family was able to make it out several years later.

To my knowledge a campus officer has never prevented or cut short a campus shooting. All these police need is yellow tape.
 
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