PracticeFreedom
Member
Not gonna happen anytime soon. Besides the price increases this year, we have the "Hillary Clinton for President" TV ads to look forward to next year. I'd wager the demand next year will be even worse. and if she wins.....
Ammo Priced Through The Roof!
- Thread starter The_Shootist
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Not gonna happen anytime soon. Besides the price increases this year, we have the "Hillary Clinton for President" TV ads to look forward to next year. I'd wager the demand next year will be even worse. and if she wins.....
Bailey Guns
Member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2006
- Messages
- 381
Well, at least we're not paying $300 - $400 for a crate of 700 rounds of 7.62x39:
From: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1636722,00.html?xid=rss-topstories
From: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1636722,00.html?xid=rss-topstories
gaudio5
Member
feel like shooting on the cheap? its called a CZ52 best $130 i ever spent. Also paying $89.00 for 1080 rounds is nice too
yhtomit
Member
[email protected] is right that prices don't tend to drop in the face of unyielding demand for a finite number of bullets 
However, I disagree that it's "It's tulip bulbs all over again" -- unless you can hold onto tulip bulbs for shooting at targets several decades down the line
timothy
However, I disagree that it's "It's tulip bulbs all over again" -- unless you can hold onto tulip bulbs for shooting at targets several decades down the line
timothy
BobCav
Member
But that's when the zombies will come!
M2 Carbine has it right! The "other half" of shooting is reloading. It will teach you so much more about this discipline -- and save you money in the process. I continue to purchase components that, of course, have increased in price but have only encountered sporadic and understandable shortages of specialized and obscure items. Calm yourselves folks! Learn more, contribute a bit of labor and you'll discover that the sky is not falling!!!
I continue to purchase components that, of course, have increased in price but have only encountered sporadic and understandable shortages of specialized and obscure items. Calm yourselves folks! Learn more, contribute a bit of labor and you'll discover that the sky is not falling!!!It's not just the price of petroleum. Chinas economy is mushrooming. And don't forget we are involved in a war in the MiddleEast. There is an increase in price of all metals around the world. Especially strategic metals like copper, lead, antimony,iron, chromium and nickel. It's the law of supply and demand. there isn't much of a supply, but the demand is skyrocketing.
Again.
The price of ammo has less to do with the price of commodities, the price of energy, China's economy, or militaries consuming production. It has everything to do with the foreign adventurism of the US causing a slide in the value of the dollar due to overspending.
The price of ammo has less to do with the price of commodities, the price of energy, China's economy, or militaries consuming production. It has everything to do with the foreign adventurism of the US causing a slide in the value of the dollar due to overspending.
Dravur
Member
What?
My head is spinning.....Let me get this straight... the cost of materials going into a product has nothing to do with the cost of the product? WOW, that is the most radical thought ever. All of those Econ classes and even common sense gets tossed out the window.
The price of lead more than doubles....The price of copper goes WAY up... and yet, the price of ammo should stay the same... I admit, I am stunned. The price of fuel goes up due to demand from countries like China and India, yet, the cost of transportation here remains the same.....
Awww, right, I forgot. The Illuminati has determined the price of ammo. Count Dracula and Mr Burns scheme in a cigar filled room to keep ammo prices high. Also, Karl Rove has determined that he wants ammo prices to rise, so he calls all of the copper producing sites and has them jack the price up. Oh, and don't forget the Aliens! Those pesky aliens need women...no wait, they need our copper.
I think it is the Tinfoil companies. They don't sell nearly as much tinfoil when people aren't making hats.
My head is spinning.....Let me get this straight... the cost of materials going into a product has nothing to do with the cost of the product? WOW, that is the most radical thought ever. All of those Econ classes and even common sense gets tossed out the window.
The price of lead more than doubles....The price of copper goes WAY up... and yet, the price of ammo should stay the same... I admit, I am stunned. The price of fuel goes up due to demand from countries like China and India, yet, the cost of transportation here remains the same.....
Awww, right, I forgot. The Illuminati has determined the price of ammo. Count Dracula and Mr Burns scheme in a cigar filled room to keep ammo prices high. Also, Karl Rove has determined that he wants ammo prices to rise, so he calls all of the copper producing sites and has them jack the price up. Oh, and don't forget the Aliens! Those pesky aliens need women...no wait, they need our copper.
I think it is the Tinfoil companies. They don't sell nearly as much tinfoil when people aren't making hats.
Scorpiusdeus
member
Maybe we can have a don't buy ammo day, just like the don't buy gas day. It worked so well.
Dravur, the value of the raw copper, steel and lead metal used in a given round is negligible compared to the price of the round. At current spot prices, a 123gr 7.62x39 round in a steel case is worth about 2 cents.
Consider this. 7.62x39 is presently 17 cents a round shipped. If the cost of components doubles, the price of the round will not double, only the cost, and the round now sells for 19 cents.
On the other hand, if the dollar drops in value by half due to overspending in the Iraq War (as it has, relative to other currencies, copper, and gold), then the price of that same ammo is at 34 cents a round.
The latter case is what has happened.
Consider this. 7.62x39 is presently 17 cents a round shipped. If the cost of components doubles, the price of the round will not double, only the cost, and the round now sells for 19 cents.
On the other hand, if the dollar drops in value by half due to overspending in the Iraq War (as it has, relative to other currencies, copper, and gold), then the price of that same ammo is at 34 cents a round.
The latter case is what has happened.
Dravur
Member
Sorry
but you are incorrect. The costs of the war are negligible compared to the social spending that we currently "Enjoy". The costs associated with the war cannot ever compare to the social spending. You are just trying to get in a strawman that the war is bad etc etc.
FY 2006 Actual numbers for ALL Nat. Defense was $617B. Discretionary Spending was $534B. Iraq was a smaller subset in that. The total budget was $2.8T. So, you can see that the additional expense of the Iraq war was NOT the major player in the economic outlook that you are saying. Sorry, if you want to reign in spending, look to the social programs.
The component costs associated are a direct cost. There are also other costs involved that have also risen... The cost of shipping and the supply and demand for the product. From estimates, I have seen a 40-50% increase in the price of ammo. That holds very well for the supply/demand model when component prices rise and they are roughly 50% of the direct costs.
also, the value of a dollar based on inflation has been quiet for years....If what you were saying were true, we would be having rampant inflation from day one of the war. That simply has not happened.
but you are incorrect. The costs of the war are negligible compared to the social spending that we currently "Enjoy". The costs associated with the war cannot ever compare to the social spending. You are just trying to get in a strawman that the war is bad etc etc.
FY 2006 Actual numbers for ALL Nat. Defense was $617B. Discretionary Spending was $534B. Iraq was a smaller subset in that. The total budget was $2.8T. So, you can see that the additional expense of the Iraq war was NOT the major player in the economic outlook that you are saying. Sorry, if you want to reign in spending, look to the social programs.
The component costs associated are a direct cost. There are also other costs involved that have also risen... The cost of shipping and the supply and demand for the product. From estimates, I have seen a 40-50% increase in the price of ammo. That holds very well for the supply/demand model when component prices rise and they are roughly 50% of the direct costs.
also, the value of a dollar based on inflation has been quiet for years....If what you were saying were true, we would be having rampant inflation from day one of the war. That simply has not happened.
DoubleTapDrew
Member
I was hoping with gas prices going down recently (not that they aren't still astronomical), so would the price of ammo. Daggumit for getting my hopes up.
Dravur
Member
Yes, but have discounted it
The falling dollar which will cause an inflationarry spiral, and has some effect on the price of goods has not fallen to the extent that you have claimed. The effect also makes our goods and services more attractive on the world market, helping to stimulate our growth here as well.
In fact, most economists agree that the slide of the dollar is near an end as it becomes more attractive to buyers. This has absolutely 0 to do with the war in Iraq. The rising costs of the asian and european currencies will actually have a lessening effect on the downward pressure of the dollar.
If we were to believe your model, every item in this country would be double the cost it was last year. The CPi rate has been 2.7% over the last 12 months. ERGO, since your claim that the ammo prices have increased due to the war in IRAQ and its effect on the dollar, the facts simply do not support you.
The falling dollar which will cause an inflationarry spiral, and has some effect on the price of goods has not fallen to the extent that you have claimed. The effect also makes our goods and services more attractive on the world market, helping to stimulate our growth here as well.
In fact, most economists agree that the slide of the dollar is near an end as it becomes more attractive to buyers. This has absolutely 0 to do with the war in Iraq. The rising costs of the asian and european currencies will actually have a lessening effect on the downward pressure of the dollar.
If we were to believe your model, every item in this country would be double the cost it was last year. The CPi rate has been 2.7% over the last 12 months. ERGO, since your claim that the ammo prices have increased due to the war in IRAQ and its effect on the dollar, the facts simply do not support you.
indie
Member
i dont see how regular shooters buying alot of ammo before a price hike will keep the price up, If anything, they stock up so that when the prices rise they DONT have to pay the higher price. They use their reserves. That coupled with reloading, and more people getting into reloading. So theoretically, that should translate to less sales after the price increase and companies should then have to lower prices to get back the business of shooting enthusiasts ie stockpilers/reloaders and move their ammo.
i'm just about to start shooting, but if i had the money to spare i would definitely stockpile enough off brand less expensive bulk ammo right now to last me a year , and dont buy again for as long as possible.
i'm just about to start shooting, but if i had the money to spare i would definitely stockpile enough off brand less expensive bulk ammo right now to last me a year , and dont buy again for as long as possible.
OH25shooter
Member
I just bought WWB 9mm ammo at a popular central Ohio gunstore (always the best price in town) on sale for $6.99/50. The staff has received word, Winchester is raising the price in July on all calibers an additional $2.00 est. a box. That's 9 bucks for 9mm. I'm beginning to lose interest in the sport of shooting. :banghead:
Dravur
Member
Look at the good news...
Copper prices are falling. From an avg $3.07 to $2.49.
Oh, and Jibraun. Metals prices, as a commodity go up for everyone around the world, just as the spot price on gold is used the world over. There is a delivery cost that can adjust that, however.
Oil, metals, corn etc are commodities and are fungible. In other words, it matters not where they came. The price of oil, for example is set on the world market and the US companies compete for it with Chinese etc, but the oil from Alaska is worth the same as that from Saudi Arabia, as no one cares where the oil comes from when they buy it. They just want the best price they can negotiate.
If I were in the market for copper, I could buy it from Chile, the US or any other copper producing nation/corp. I just want the copper at my door on this date and I want the best price possible.
Copper prices are falling. From an avg $3.07 to $2.49.
Oh, and Jibraun. Metals prices, as a commodity go up for everyone around the world, just as the spot price on gold is used the world over. There is a delivery cost that can adjust that, however.
Oil, metals, corn etc are commodities and are fungible. In other words, it matters not where they came. The price of oil, for example is set on the world market and the US companies compete for it with Chinese etc, but the oil from Alaska is worth the same as that from Saudi Arabia, as no one cares where the oil comes from when they buy it. They just want the best price they can negotiate.
If I were in the market for copper, I could buy it from Chile, the US or any other copper producing nation/corp. I just want the copper at my door on this date and I want the best price possible.
Roccobro
Member
And that is the end goal of eliminating all the surplus ammunition sales to civilians by the last two presidents (and brady-ites) are hoping for. Millions of guns in law abiding owners hands that will last 100's of years if taken care of. Ammo on the other hand is (by design)expendable and makes a gun worthless without it.
Justin
indie
Member
great, i havent even started shooting yet, but im ordering ammo TODAY.
Guy B. Meredith
Member
The vendor I prefer for copper plated bullets went from $60/1000 to $80/1000 sometime when I wasn't looking (within a yeas's time) and more recently took that up to $90/1000. When I tried to order they had none in stock, said they would call back when they did.
They called this morning. The rep explained that the cost of lead is one of the big problems. They try to buy at a good price, but have only so much storage for the lead and so when the stock goes down they have to buy at the best current price.
Right now I think they are paying about $29/1000 for the lead alone and are selling the copper plated product for $90 with shipping included.
Today I decided to purchase 2000 to hedge for a while. Wish I could buy bulk as that takes the price WAY down. Might take me a while to shoot 25,000 bullets right now as I am not in competition so I can't justify the purchase. *sigh*
They called this morning. The rep explained that the cost of lead is one of the big problems. They try to buy at a good price, but have only so much storage for the lead and so when the stock goes down they have to buy at the best current price.
Right now I think they are paying about $29/1000 for the lead alone and are selling the copper plated product for $90 with shipping included.
Today I decided to purchase 2000 to hedge for a while. Wish I could buy bulk as that takes the price WAY down. Might take me a while to shoot 25,000 bullets right now as I am not in competition so I can't justify the purchase. *sigh*
Roccobro
Member
Which store is this, and do they do phone orders?
Justin
OH25shooter
Member
I don't know about phone orders, but here's there website: http://www.vanceoutdoors.com/
cracked butt
Member
If that were true, all other common goods would have doubled in price as well. The only items in our economy that have significantly gone up in price are copper, lead, steel, and oil.
As far as purchasing power goes, that only applies if other economies are competing for the same resources. Last time I checked, citizens of Germany, UK, France, Japan, Australia, Russia etc... haven't been buying billions of rounds of .45 auto, .223 or 76.62x39 for personal use let alone at comparatively lower cost than we can buy them here.
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