jaytex1969
Member
This write up seems about as reasonable as any I've read so far:
http://www.chuckhawks.com/column92_ammunition_shortage.htm
http://www.chuckhawks.com/column92_ammunition_shortage.htm
Ammo production/availability article
- Thread starter jaytex1969
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1911 guy
Member
I think the last paragraph sums up the whole article very well. We (the shooting public) are partly to blame.
Obama-created drama? a drama is a play/show for the stage. this is way to simplistic
a word for what is, in real life, going on.
other than that phrase I will have to defer to someone that speaks for the industry.
I wish what is going on was a play or show, because then I could get up and leave
a word for what is, in real life, going on.
other than that phrase I will have to defer to someone that speaks for the industry.
I wish what is going on was a play or show, because then I could get up and leave
wally
Member
I hope the article is incorrect about the Radford plant and its not the only source of nitrocellulose, if its true in means a single terrorist with a backpack nuke coming through our open borders could shut down our military after the produced ammunition inventory is used up. If true, the folks in the Pentagon that let this be the case all need to be fired!
The article is most definitely wrong about nitrocellulose being used in all explosives, but the Acid Plant is common to all explosives except ANFO, the peroxides (TAPI etc), the inorganics (azides & fumanates) and some laboratory curiosities that cost more than gold per gram like Octanitrocubane which has the highest shock velocity ever publicly disclosed (but its only about 10% higher than HMX). So if Radford is the only nitration plant we would have an extremely serious potential single point of failure.
The article is most definitely wrong about nitrocellulose being used in all explosives, but the Acid Plant is common to all explosives except ANFO, the peroxides (TAPI etc), the inorganics (azides & fumanates) and some laboratory curiosities that cost more than gold per gram like Octanitrocubane which has the highest shock velocity ever publicly disclosed (but its only about 10% higher than HMX). So if Radford is the only nitration plant we would have an extremely serious potential single point of failure.
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Agreed, an attempted violation of our most basic human Rights should not be downplayed as mere politics.
I once heard (could be complete BS) that the 'nitrates' or whatever at the time was used to make gun powder was able to be extracted from urine during the time the American colonies were cut off from outside resources. Sorry if I butchered that statement but if anyone knows what I'm talking about, jump in.
Modern propellants aren't using black powder which is where the salt peter would come into play.
wally
Member
rodregier
Member
Keep in mind there are European mfgr of NC and European mfgr of propellants from those feedstocks. That is helpful for the US circumstance...
There is a propellant plant being operated in Canada which supplies some of the US market, but I don't know from where they get their feedstocks. Now you have me curious...
There is a propellant plant being operated in Canada which supplies some of the US market, but I don't know from where they get their feedstocks. Now you have me curious...
rodregier
Member
Looks like General Dynamics-OTS Canada Valleyfield (Quebec) mfgrs NC in addition to all sorts of derivative products too.
http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/srch/nvgt.do?lang=eng&prtl=1&estblmntNo=900674710000&profile=cmpltPrfl&profileId=201&app=sold
http://www.ic.gc.ca/app/ccc/srch/nvgt.do?lang=eng&prtl=1&estblmntNo=900674710000&profile=cmpltPrfl&profileId=201&app=sold
JTHunter
Member
During the Civil War, they found they could use bat guano (found in caves where the bats live) to get the potassium nitrate they needed for black powder.
MagnumDweeb
Member
Alright Time to jump in.
Potassium nitrate is relatively easy to get, refine, and use once you know how to do it. Took me a year. A good first and easy to understand source is the Foxfire Volumes, Vol 5 if I remember right. Then you have to learn about nitre boxes. Those aren't terribly difficult to make or understand. I have a Swedish Style nitre box I made for myself.
It means collecting your own leavings once a day (I put a nondescript shet on my acre-and-a-half where I do my constitutional) and adding them to the box every so often and letting them putrify. I then take earthworms from my compost pit (yes I'm a hippie of sort) and add them to the nitre box. It was tip given to me by a greybeard that it helps with the nitrates.
After at least six months of letting the mass brew. You take a collection of it and put it in a sieve like box (not using definite technical terms here), then add water. I've taken to using lye water made from bamboo charcoal. The lye water helps leech the potassium nitrate better from the mass as I believe I have found.
The water you are left with should have potassium nitrate in it. It doesn't hurt to repour it through the mass. Then you have to start refining it which is a pain in the neck. Some people think you only have to cook it to a boil then put it in a freezer. And yes that is one step but it is only the begining as you have an impure form of potassium nitrate. I could keep going but I'm not writing a book on THR on how to make KNO3.
Once you have KNO3 you can then perform a distillation like process using sulfuric acid to get fuming nitric acid. Nitric acid is need to make nitrocellulose. Etc. etc. etc.. And thus you gained some knowledge.
The problem is you cannot legally make your own Nitrocellulose without some licenses as I understand it and I certainly won't (and haven't). The main value to making your own nitrocellulose those without making nitroglycerin is that it is an excellent booster for ammon/amhide pulver variant propellants.
No that's not the whole story. If you want to know, go read up on it all.
Potassium nitrate is relatively easy to get, refine, and use once you know how to do it. Took me a year. A good first and easy to understand source is the Foxfire Volumes, Vol 5 if I remember right. Then you have to learn about nitre boxes. Those aren't terribly difficult to make or understand. I have a Swedish Style nitre box I made for myself.
It means collecting your own leavings once a day (I put a nondescript shet on my acre-and-a-half where I do my constitutional) and adding them to the box every so often and letting them putrify. I then take earthworms from my compost pit (yes I'm a hippie of sort) and add them to the nitre box. It was tip given to me by a greybeard that it helps with the nitrates.
After at least six months of letting the mass brew. You take a collection of it and put it in a sieve like box (not using definite technical terms here), then add water. I've taken to using lye water made from bamboo charcoal. The lye water helps leech the potassium nitrate better from the mass as I believe I have found.
The water you are left with should have potassium nitrate in it. It doesn't hurt to repour it through the mass. Then you have to start refining it which is a pain in the neck. Some people think you only have to cook it to a boil then put it in a freezer. And yes that is one step but it is only the begining as you have an impure form of potassium nitrate. I could keep going but I'm not writing a book on THR on how to make KNO3.
Once you have KNO3 you can then perform a distillation like process using sulfuric acid to get fuming nitric acid. Nitric acid is need to make nitrocellulose. Etc. etc. etc.. And thus you gained some knowledge.
The problem is you cannot legally make your own Nitrocellulose without some licenses as I understand it and I certainly won't (and haven't). The main value to making your own nitrocellulose those without making nitroglycerin is that it is an excellent booster for ammon/amhide pulver variant propellants.
No that's not the whole story. If you want to know, go read up on it all.
RustyShackelford
member
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2006
- Messages
- 4,018
SF field manuals.....
I was reading thru a few older US military special forces FMs(field manuals) about ammunition, demolitions, explosives, firearms etc.
Some of the details were interesting.
Like packing animals guts into IEDs to make them more lethal.
I was reading thru a few older US military special forces FMs(field manuals) about ammunition, demolitions, explosives, firearms etc.
Some of the details were interesting.
Like packing animals guts into IEDs to make them more lethal.
rodregier
Member
The is a great paper on the critical position of the Radford plant in the supply chain.
The graphic in the middle tells the story too.
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/radford-army-ammunition.pdf
The graphic in the middle tells the story too.
http://www.lexingtoninstitute.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/radford-army-ammunition.pdf
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