Ammunition as an investment?

[callgood]

I bought a FAL about 18 months ago. The guys at AIM had been warning us of the impending shortage. Like the sucker I am I loaded up at $19-$24 per battle pack and socked it away, shooting a little here and there. Now, I don't have a good central location in my house to centralize my storage, so I have to get creative. Like the unused fireplace insert. Not long ago AIM advertised 7.62 @ 49.00 a battle pack.

I've got right at $1200 bucks worth in the fireplace alone. Pretty much the same situation with XM193.

Only problem is I refuse to buy any at today's prices, so I'm hesitant to use my stock. That pretty much means I just shoot what I reload, using components I can get purchased in bulk at reduced prices- and that's getting harder and harder.

 

[BlindJustice]

It's not an investment - it's paying at a known price
and you know it will just go higher.

In my case, with a S&W in .45 ACP / .45 Auto RIm, I had a
hard time finding a source for a load / bullet combo. Instead of
the Remington-Peters 230 gr. RNL i.e. Soft lead bullets loaded
to 830 FPS> I spec'd a load with a firm that does custom
orders. Leadhead 200 gr. SWC @ 1,025 FPS. 500 rds. I also
had the same bullet and load in .45 ACP in 350 ct. of new Remington
brass I bought back in the early 80s. WHatever I paid for
that brass is long forgotten,but the firm charged only 18 cents a
round for the ACP, the AR had new Starline brass and it was
42 cents a round.

So, I have a decent load of the AR at about $21 per box of 50.
I recently got a Marline 1894 in .45 Colt. WHat is the deal with
the price of .45 COlt? MIdway had some Blazer at
$31+ per box. ouch does the Cowboy Action Shooting fad cause
such popularity that the ammo makers jack up the price for
the stuff in higher demand ? It certainly isn't the extra brass
the .45 Colt is only .35 of an inch ih OAL compared to .45 AR.
and the AR has a thicker and rim to boot.

THe 1894 in .45 Colt is going to be converted to .45 AR -
the extra on the conversion to AR will pay for itself in about
500 rounds.

My next custom order will be the Leadhead TC-BB 225 gr.
at 925 FPS> 250 in ACP and the same number in AR

 

[sm]

Goods and Services are only worth what a buyer is willing to give for them.

Since folks like "Serious Situations" let us "say"
Humpty Dumpty fell off the wall and in breaking his crown:

Ammunition prices skyrocketed,
or he declared all ammo sales stopped,
or he declared war on Jack&Jill and ammo stores were affected,
or said all guns and calibers used by Police and Military are forbidden to be owned by J.Q. Public.

Rut Roh!

1911Tuner won't mind if I use him for an example.

So J.Q.Public went out and bought a GeeWhizBlaster in Odd .Cal.
J.O! has a 9mm with a polygonal rifleling
Tricked out 10/22 with all the thumbholes and curb feelers.
Ultimate Extreme 4.5" chamber Shotgun, with The Exotic ammunition and even has Fletchettes and Dragon's breath.

I have a H&R Topper in 20 ga, with 209 primers, and a slew of reloadable hulls, and reloading components. A Mec Single Stag Reloader.
I have a Marlin 60 and a Rem single shot .22 rifle, and a slew of .22 rim-fire.
Bone stock 1911, and Model 10, again with some ammo , pistol primers powders, but not very many bullets, and no reloaders.
I do have a lot of Zippo lighter flints and wicks.

JQ cannot find ammo and has nothing to barter.

1911Tuner and I can barter.

In exchange for me reloading Tuner some 20 gauge shells, see since the Police and Military use 12 bore, well...we have 20 gauge shotguns.

He reloads me some 45 ACP and 38spl with lead bullets, my 9mm will shoot lead just fine, being as it has the "old school" lands and grooves.
200 gr HG#68 from a 1911 is legendary for performance.
All them wheel weights 1911 hoarded, pretty good "investment".

He could use some 22 rimfire, some flints and "you have wicks for oil lamps?"
he asks, and I do, we barter real nice together.

JQ, well not much to barter with. 3", and 3.5" shot shells are not wanted, might not be legal and 1911 and I are really going to have to work to take these apart to get the primer, shot and pellets out of them.

.22 rim fire, 38spls and such don't get much respect.
Nor does Zippo flints, wicks, or wicks for oil lamps around here when folks get to talking about Serious Situations.

Best hope Humpty don't fall - huh?

 

[horge]

Originally posted by shrinkmd
Sorry to hear about your friend Horge. Most of the posts I've seen here seem to advocate that ammo doesn't really go bad (stored well) and that fire safety is not a problem. Is there info to the contrary?

Hi, thanks for the thoughts.

An ammo stash doesn't start fires, but if you've got one already going, that's a lot of
combustibles. Responding firemen here seem to get spooked by the ammo factor,
once they find out about it, even though the cook-offs are more like dud versions of
shots from a real firearm.

Storagewise, the premise was to make a business of it, and the cost of
'proper' storage can be a lot bigger than some might think, if we're talking
about ammo in larger quantities: I live in the Philippines, where humidity is
a real concern.


h.

 

[Soybomb]

Thats not the whole story though.

You will have to pay capital gains tax on the $647 your stock earned, which reduces your net by $96, and you will have to pay some amount of brokerage fee when you buy and then sell your stock. For sake of discussion, we will say you are doing your trading online, and only incur $40 of fees from your broker for the transactions.

That means your $647 has been reduced now to $511, which means you are really only looking at a 50% return over 10 years.

Similiarly though don't forget that if the price of ammo goes up 50% from what you paid for it, you'll probably only be able to sell it for 30-40% more because people want to buy their ammo from someone with a reputation for selling quality well stored, not really reloaded ammo. If you want to sell online you're almost going to have to take a paypal credit card payment and thats going to take 3%. You'll have to compete with the online costs of ammo too, or factor in shipping charges if you want to sell it for instore prices.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Similiarly though don't forget that if the price of ammo goes up 50% from what you paid for it, you'll probably only be able to sell it for 30-40% more because people want to buy their ammo from someone with a reputation for selling quality well stored, not really reloaded ammo.

Who said anything about selling it? I don't have to sell the ammo to be able to benefit financially from it, because it is a physical commodity that I will need in the future as well. With stocks, in order to reap any type of gain, sooner or later you have to convert it to cash, and will get stuck with paying taxes.

 

[Soybomb]

Who said anything about selling it?

The guy that started the thread explicitly said calibers he doesn't shoot but will be sought-after by shooters.

 

[2RCO]

Here's an event that might make Ammo skyrocket--Hillary and pals taking control and bolstering their power in congress. Then they may drive ammo makers as well as anyone who ever made so much as a rubber band gun out of business. --That said hoarding ammo is a bit dangerous and I really wouldn't suggest it. I do think the next big move of the Anti Gun crowd will be on the Ammo Makers.

 

[CU74]

Ammunition is not an investment, it is a necessity. The returns on your investments are what you use to buy more ammunition.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

The guy that started the thread explicitly said calibers he doesn't shoot but will be sought-after by shooters.

Hmmm. I guess I missed that. If there is no chance I would shoot the ammo myself in the future, then I agree, its not a good investment.

 

[40SW]

I am enjoying this thread very much. Here is my take on it.

1. It depends on how you define "investment". I don't expect to derive income/profit/dividends from storing sufficient ammunition. For me, in this case, "investment" means an investment in myself and my survival, sporting needs , and any natural disaster/war/other post apocalyptic type event.

2. I store much more than I need because of my fatalistic nature and the belief in eminent post apocalyptic type /natural disaster ,etc, emergencies. I store both factory and my own reloads.

3. I only store and buy cartridges that I shoot. I am not getting into exotic stuff and riding the wave of 5.7x28FN peaks and valleys. , or try to guess what the ATF will regulate and stock up. I will stock up on what I shoot and what I like, ie, .40SW and .223, etc.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

Ammunition is the ultimate hedge against total economic/societal collapse.

 

[MarinePride]

I just hope that there isn't some type of law passed, at the Federal level, that prohibits "x amount" of ammo in a single family home. The 2nd Amendment doesn't say a thing about ammo. Of course this will be sold in the name of "safety".

Just imagine such a law that would make all of us subject to criminal penalties for possessing large amounts of dangerous goods (ammo). It could become a reality a some point in the future. If you are like me, you have case quantities of most common calibers stockpiled.

 

[revjen45]

In Supply Chain Management ammo is the sort of investment known as "hedge stock," i.e. something you buy because you know you will need it and will only get more expensive in the future. I have no intention of selling any of the ammo I have, and what I bought 5 years ago would cost a lot more to buy now, if you could get it.

 

[Lone_Gunman]

The 2nd Amendment doesn't say a thing about ammo.

It doesn't say anything about guns either. Arms is a general term that describes both the ammunition, and the weapon itself.

For Example, the company Georgia Arms is manufacturer of ammunition, not guns.