An important safety practice

Status
Not open for further replies.
Not trying to be argumentative, but IMO that's just a waste of valuable caps.
When hunting, caps really aren't that valuable, When making a gun safe, caps really aren't that valuable. 8 to 10 cents, really ain't that valuable, even if they use to cost you 4 or 5 cents. Quadruple the price...Small price to pay still...
 
Last edited:
When hunting, caps really aren't that valuable, When making a gun safe, caps really aren't that valuable. 8 to 10 cents, really ain't that valuable, even if they use to cost you 4 or 5 cents. Quadruple the price...Small price to pay still...

It's not the cents that are valuable it's the caps
Plenty of folks have been having trouble finding them.
If someone can't tell if their gun is clean or their nipples are clear without blasting caps then they just are not paying attention.
But if it makes anyone feel better snapping a couple caps off before they go hunting, more power to them. It's not going to ruin the world.
Snapping a cap or two isn't going to make the gun any safer though.
 
It's not the cents that are valuable it's the caps
Plenty of folks have been having trouble finding them.
If someone can't tell if their gun is clean or their nipples are clear without blasting caps then they just are not paying attention.
But if it makes anyone feel better snapping a couple caps off before they go hunting, more power to them. It's not going to ruin the world.
Snapping a cap or two isn't going to make the gun any safer though.
in the streets, they call shooting “Poping a Cap” is that term really that dated in history? makes me wonder
 
It's not the cents that are valuable it's the caps
Plenty of folks have been having trouble finding them.
If someone can't tell if their gun is clean or their nipples are clear without blasting caps then they just are not paying attention.
But if it makes anyone feel better snapping a couple caps off before they go hunting, more power to them. It's not going to ruin the world.
Snapping a cap or two isn't going to make the gun any safer though.

Most people when they clean their guns run an oiled patch or Bore Butter or something down the bore to protect it. Popping a cap just makes sure that none of that oil is in the nipple. The reason I fire a blank charge is to burn out everything in the bore so none of it gets pushed down the bore with the ball and into the nipple.
 
Not trying to be argumentative, but IMO that's just a waste of valuable caps.
In this case it would have saved the cost of the gun and two injured persons. That's worth thousands of caps.
Snapping a cap or two isn't going to make the gun any safer though.
Not only would the practice have prevented this incident, there's another story on this thread of a potential incident that WAS prevented by the practice. Besides, it's just good practice in general. Look up loading procedures for percussion cap firearms and most, if not all, will start with snapping a cap or two to clear the channel.
 
Where I'm at depends on what I do.
If I'm in the house, at times I snap caps.
I have a goodly supply of some oddball
sized caps that were given to me that
aren't musket size, but are way way
loose on a #11 nipple, and I use those
for "snapping "
Sometimes I use a squirt of aerosol
brake cleaner with the red straw
with the air compressor, or sometimes
just the air compressor.
Lots of ways to get there
 
I remember one time at Rendezvous, a fella was talking at the loading bench telling us his system.
He loaded his rifle and left his ramrod in the barrel, letting him know his rifle was loaded & ready to shoot.
Then someone yelled it was his turn, so he went to the firing line and shot his ramrod down range.
It was one of those "Wonder Rods" with the life time guarantee, it completely shattered into no piece being over 3" long.
Apparently he sent a few pieces in to the manufacture and they sent him a new Wonder Rod.
So much for systems, I guess I've been lucky having never shot my ramrod down range.

AntiqueSledMan.
 
In this case it would have saved the cost of the gun and two injured persons. That's worth thousands of caps.Not only would the practice have prevented this incident, there's another story on this thread of a potential incident that WAS prevented by the practice. Besides, it's just good practice in general. Look up loading procedures for percussion cap firearms and most, if not all, will start with snapping a cap or two to clear the channel.

I get that firing a cap to "blow out" the nipple is one way to confirm the channel is clear, but I don't think firing off a cap to see if the gun is loaded is good advice at all and it's NOT making the overall situation any safer.
Step one assume any firearm is loaded.
Step two confirm it is unloaded before proceeding. There are lots of ways to do that depending on the firearm, but pulling the trigger is NOT the safest way to check.
If you don't even know if it's loaded you also don't know what the load is or if it's a double load already, or apparently if the ram rod is also in there too.
 
...I don't think firing off a cap to see if the gun is loaded is good advice at all and it's NOT making the overall situation any safer.
The point is that if you follow the standard recommended loading procedure for percussion cap firearms, it prevents this kind of incident. While pulling the trigger is not the safEST way to check that a firearm is loaded, it is a very effective method of doing so and quite safe if done properly. So effective and safe that it is the method employed at the end of every stage of some of the action pistol matches.
 
in the streets, they call shooting “Poping a Cap” is that term really that dated in history? makes me wonder
Hmmm… I believe that the proper phrase would be “bus’ a cap” as in “I’m fitna bus’ a cap in yo aspen!” Could be wrong though as I don’t speak jive so I’m using google translator.
 
Last edited:
Anybody that has fired more than a few rounds out of a muzzleloader should know when a rifle is loaded by the depth of the ramrod without marking it. A double charge is also very obvious. When my last wife's stepdad died her mom gave me his CVA St Louis Hawken and everything that went with it. I dropped the ramrod down the bore and it showed it was loaded. My MIL said he hadn't used it in over 12 years. I knew he used a 90 grain charge of Pyrodex because that's where his powder measure was set. I also got a couple of boxes of Great Plains bullets and a partial box. The ramrod depth looked right for that load so I capped it and fired it. That 12 year old load of Pyrodex fired just fine.
 
I meant by looking at the ramrod. I thought that would be obvious.

Mea Culpa.

It would have been obvious to a pedant such as myself had you written "I can tell by looking at my ramrod (as opposed to 'mine') if my rifle is loaded (as opposed to 'they're').

As such, I misinterpreted what you meant, and thought that you were eschewing the use of a ramrod altogether as a 'loaded rifle' indicator and that you were suggesting just looking into the barrel to see if it is loaded or not.

Since @paul harm is obviously familiar with you he knew of course exactly what you meant, and not knowing what I was thinking you meant, made the assumption that I was thinking that you were dropping the rammer into the barrel and then peering down on it from over the top.

One of the hazards of my job reviewing technical automotive service information is that what I review cannot require any assumption of understanding on the part of the consumer of the information and is not only required to be written to a seventh grade reading and comprehension level but also has to pass muster on being computer translated to other languages. It is difficult for me not to apply this same standard to everything I read.
 
Hmmm… I believe that the proper term is “bus’ a cap” as in “I’m fitna bus’ a cap in yo aspen!” Could be wrong though as I don’t speak jive so I’m using google translator.
man! you got me cracking up!!!! haaaa!!!
 
Mea Culpa.

It would have been obvious to a pedant such as myself had you written "I can tell by looking at my ramrod (as opposed to 'mine') if my rifle is loaded (as opposed to 'they're').

What I actually said was "I never saw the need to mark a ramrod although I see it mentioned all the time. I can tell by looking at mine whether they're loaded or not and if the balls/bullets are seated on the powder". Since in my first sentence I said ramrod. You would think in my second sentence I was referring to the aforementioned ramrod. No?
 
The point is that if you follow the standard recommended loading procedure for percussion cap firearms, it prevents this kind of incident...

Except that if you, me, or someone else already loaded a double load, or loaded smokeless, or some other not great idea, popping a cap is going to have a potentially catastrophic result and doesn't actually prevent this kind of incident, but instead actually increases the odds of it occurring vrs confirming you're starting with an unloaded firearm in the first place.
Just check to make sure the muzzleloader is not loaded before loading again. A few examples of reliable methods have already been mentioned in this thread.
 
I've been thinking about this(yeah I know, bad idea). I don't really see how a double charge would blow up a barrel. If there was an air space between charges it possibly could depending on how much air space there was or depending on the barrel it would likely just bulge it. If you fully seated a charge on top of another charge the main charge would just blow the other one out the barrel. There would be more recoil but I don't see it damaging the gun. No, I'm not going to try it to find out.:D
 
I've been thinking about this(yeah I know, bad idea). I don't really see how a double charge would blow up a barrel. If there was an air space between charges it possibly could depending on how much air space there was or depending on the barrel it would likely just bulge it. If you fully seated a charge on top of another charge the main charge would just blow the other one out the barrel. There would be more recoil but I don't see it damaging the gun. No, I'm not going to try it to find out.:D
good point, like a roman candle
 
I'm also not interested in being the test dummy, but here is video showing the results of smokeless in a muzzleloader, partially seated projectile, and mud in the end of the barrel (all catastrophic) -



Here is a double charge (anti climatic) -

 
Except that if you, me, or someone else already loaded a double load, or loaded smokeless, or some other not great idea, popping a cap is going to have a potentially catastrophic result and doesn't actually prevent this kind of incident, but instead actually increases the odds of it occurring vrs confirming you're starting with an unloaded firearm in the first place.
I went back and re-read my posts on this thread to see what sort of claims I had made, and frankly I'm not sure how what I said generated this kind of a response.

1. I haven't claimed that following the commonly recommended procedure of snapping a cap as the first step in the loading process would prevent every possible type of incident. It won't. But it would have prevented this particular one, assuming that the information provided is correct.

2. I haven't claimed that the practice will, by itself, totally render the process of shooting a blackpowder firearm safe. One can still load it with smokeless powder, put multiple charges in, point it in unsafe directions, etc., etc., etc. and cause damage to the gun or injury/damage to property and others as a result. BUT, following the commonly recommended practice will insure that one doesn't put another load on top of an undetected load already in the gun as happened in this incident. Or at least it will insure that won't happen if the first load will still fire--which would have also prevented this incident.

3. I haven't claimed it's the only way or the best way or the safest way to determine if a blackpowder gun is already loaded. There are other ways, other safe ways, even other safer ways, but this is certainly ONE way. It provides sort of a failsafe for those who either don't use those other ways or meant to and forgot.

Which means that not only is it a good way to clear the channel and ready the gun for use--the reason it is commonly recommended--it can also provide a sort of safety net for certain types of potentially dangerous incidents.
 
We have a split black powder season where I live... one week before normal rifle season and one week after. I often found myself leaving mine loaded. I used to tie a piece of surveyor's tape around the trigger guard as a reminder. (I find it easy to differentiate between the sound of a ramrod hitting a lead ball or steel breech plug, but I also marked my ramrods with an "empty" line.)

Then, one year, at the end of the second half of the season, my Hawken was still loaded with a round ball load. I decided to try the ball puller screw that was on the long fiberglass ramrod I keep at home. I was surprised how easy it was and now, I don't hesitate to unload my rifle that way.

A ball usually pulls easily. It is a surprise, as it took some pressure to get it down.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top