And are they surprised?
- Thread starter armoredman
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JImbothefiveth
Member
Exactly, it will make people say "enough is enough"!
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
Thank you. 
*sigh*
No, appealing to popularity is not a good thing when you're trying to advocate an idea. Logical fallacies are things to be avoided.
Maybe it's because I go outside of the gun community, online and IRL quite frequently, to do RKBA advocacy, that I see the potential for deleterious effects. When I have to face antis, or even more importantly, swing voters in the audience, negative stereotypes are something you absolutely do NOT want to play into. Also, tying together two contentious issues, one of which is much nastier to deal with than the other, does not help at all, EVER. The only people who posters like this appeal to don't need any convincing; you've already got their vote. HOWEVER, there are plenty of people out there who haven't made up their minds. Playing into stereotypes, and tying together multiple hotly contentious issues is always a BAD idea if you're trying to win a debate and forward an idea, but it's always a great tactic if you're trying to confuse people, stall an idea, or kill a debate. I've had it tried on me many many many times and it always makes me do ten times more work to get the RKBA message across when someone successfully introduces the "bible-beating, gun-loving redneck" stereotype into an argument.
So, the point I'm trying to make, which some unfortunately seem unable or unwilling to grasp, is that, while I know your intentions are good, that you are apparently unaware of just how much DAMAGE your picture can do when let loose onto the population at large.
No, appealing to popularity is not a good thing when you're trying to advocate an idea. Logical fallacies are things to be avoided.
Maybe it's because I go outside of the gun community, online and IRL quite frequently, to do RKBA advocacy, that I see the potential for deleterious effects. When I have to face antis, or even more importantly, swing voters in the audience, negative stereotypes are something you absolutely do NOT want to play into. Also, tying together two contentious issues, one of which is much nastier to deal with than the other, does not help at all, EVER. The only people who posters like this appeal to don't need any convincing; you've already got their vote. HOWEVER, there are plenty of people out there who haven't made up their minds. Playing into stereotypes, and tying together multiple hotly contentious issues is always a BAD idea if you're trying to win a debate and forward an idea, but it's always a great tactic if you're trying to confuse people, stall an idea, or kill a debate. I've had it tried on me many many many times and it always makes me do ten times more work to get the RKBA message across when someone successfully introduces the "bible-beating, gun-loving redneck" stereotype into an argument.
So, the point I'm trying to make, which some unfortunately seem unable or unwilling to grasp, is that, while I know your intentions are good, that you are apparently unaware of just how much DAMAGE your picture can do when let loose onto the population at large.
JCMAG
Member
A lot of people getting feisty over this...
I second the new desktop. I'm using the blank space on the right to place my favorite pictures of the guns I want to get next
I'm not a religious man, but I can certainly appreciate the value of the Good Book come good times or bad.
Excellent work armoredman!
I second the new desktop. I'm using the blank space on the right to place my favorite pictures of the guns I want to get next
I'm not a religious man, but I can certainly appreciate the value of the Good Book come good times or bad.
Excellent work armoredman!
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
Emfuser, feel free to ignore anything else I post. BTW, guns and God was how this country got started.
PS, the liberals would get real mad at this one, too, wouldn't they.
PS, the liberals would get real mad at this one, too, wouldn't they.
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
Congratulations.
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
Thanks, Andy
Doggy Daddy
Member
I am religious. And I still recognize and appreciate wisdom from the non-religious. Very nice, AndyC!
SCKimberFan
Member
Amen.
Mrs. Armoredman
Member
Emfuser, No one is trying to push religon in your face. No one is telling you to believe in something you don't want to believe in.No one is telling you to read the bible and believe in God the way armoredman does. I understand that your a 2nd ammendment believer and thats all well and good. I think you are going over board at little bit. I have heard some Judges say they can't do thier job without God in thier life.
If you don't like the poster armoredman put up just blow it off like it's not there. It is sending a clear message and it's a good one. Let's not get this thread closed because you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
If you don't like the poster armoredman put up just blow it off like it's not there. It is sending a clear message and it's a good one. Let's not get this thread closed because you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Treo
member
I like it. I don't understand why some of you are reacting as though Armoredman committed some kind of sin ( couldn't resist).
The quote was that we're all out here clinging to our guns & religion , the Bible was a good visual representation. Even people who obviously have no use for religion got the refference Good job.
Anybody that is turned off to RKBA by this poster probably wasn't gonna support us anyway
The quote was that we're all out here clinging to our guns & religion , the Bible was a good visual representation. Even people who obviously have no use for religion got the refference Good job.
Anybody that is turned off to RKBA by this poster probably wasn't gonna support us anyway
HeadlandRam
Member
Armoredman, I love your posters. I think you need a whole gallery with your posters in it.
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
Headlandram, thank's but I am just an amatuer, nothing more.
Treo - boo hiss.
Treo - boo hiss.
Duke Junior
member
This thread is plutonium because every single member is going to come away from the OP's poster with a different message.
But I think Jimbo's quote above is close to the case.
It's walking a fine line, but sometimes that's the only way to make a point.
I can understand some of the feelings of the naysayers who think it doesn't belong here.
But I believe it passes the test.
Armored man I like the picture. Good job technicaly (I have seen a distinct improvement since you first started posting, the quality of your work continues to increase.), estheticly IMHO , and good captioning (I love the emphasis put on "legal" on the 2nd Image ).
However please do not be offended but I think that Emfusor has a point regarding
I like the picture, I agree with it(I'd like it even better if you could work "legal" immigration in there, I am quite annoyed that because I am against "illegal immigration many people assume that I am against legal immigration.
But I agree it would probable be best for "In-House" use. It really depends on what we are trying to do make an image for ourselves or make an image to attempt to convert others.
Again I say please do not be offended, I like your work and hope you contiunue to produce such excellent images and I'll contiue to look at and enjoy them.
Best wishes
NukemJim
).However please do not be offended but I think that Emfusor has a point regarding
I like the picture, I agree with it(I'd like it even better if you could work "legal" immigration in there, I am quite annoyed that because I am against "illegal immigration many people assume that I am against legal immigration.
But I agree it would probable be best for "In-House" use. It really depends on what we are trying to do make an image for ourselves or make an image to attempt to convert others.
Again I say please do not be offended, I like your work and hope you contiunue to produce such excellent images and I'll contiue to look at and enjoy them.
Best wishes
NukemJim
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
Nuke, I am not offended at all, thank you. I am still working on a few angles, but I got started by being inspired by Oleg. I just don't have access to all of his cool toys and models!
Uh oh, just had another idea...
Uh oh, just had another idea...
JImbothefiveth
Member
Emfuser, this poster capitalizes on the feelings of the average American right now. Most Americans, including me, are upset about the economy, and are religious.
I agree that you shouldn't bring in negative stereotypes (like the urban redneck poster, even though that one is hilarious), but connecting with people who are disgusted at the condition the world around them is in is very helpful indeed. Ever hear of the Moral Majority, who registered about 2 million new voters? Or the so-called "Reagan Revolution?(I don't want to discuss these here, but I'm pointing out that this can work.)
Wes Janson
Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2006
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For what it's worth, I find the image itself to be fairly well executed, and understand the message...but feel that Emfuser is absolutely right. There are a significant number of gun owners who don't believe in god(s) (or, alternative, don't believe in the Christian god), for whom that poster does not represent them.
OP
OP
armoredman
Member
And they may represent themselves as small town Americans clinging to thier guns and...hmm, cabbages? Whatever get's them through the day, friend!
But, I can see this getting SO political it gets locked, so one last completely non-political poster...
But, I can see this getting SO political it gets locked, so one last completely non-political poster...
Well, I suppose that merely highlights the fact that no single poster, image or message is going to represent 100% of all gun owners - or any other demographic group.
That doesn't diminish the value or sense of identity this particular poster's message has for those it does represent. Nor does it in any way infringe upon those gun owners it does not represent.
Again - much ado about nothing.
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