And here is the 'catch' for Chicago cops who want to carry M-4's... (Sun Times)

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Neo-Luddite

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If cops want to carry M4s. . .
They will have to flex fitness tests


May 16, 2008

BY FRANK MAIN AND FRAN SPIELMAN Staff Reporters


Cops who want to shoot an M4 assault weapon will have to flex more than a trigger finger.

The Chicago Police Department recently launched physical fitness tests for cops who have applied to carry the semiautomatic rifle.

Cops who want to shoot an M4 assault weapon will have to pass a set of physical tests.

Members of gang, gun and tactical teams are the first ones being asked if they want to take the state-approved exam for officers, called the P.O.W.E.R. test.

A male officer between 30 and 40 years old must run 1.5 miles in 14.3 minutes, do 34 sit-ups in a minute, bench press 87 percent of his weight and do a 15-inch sit-and-reach.

Mark Donahue, president of the Fraternal Order of Police, questioned why cops need to pass a fitness test to carry M4s.

"I don't believe it's likely that situations would arise where you'd be running great distances with this weapon," Donahue said. "As long as you're proficient, you should be able to carry it."

Police spokeswoman Monique Bond disagreed.

"If you are grasping for breath, the weapon could waver up and down," she said.

Bond said 85 percent of the officers who've taken the fitness test for the M4s have passed. She would not say how many have taken it.

Officers who fail the test can re-take it as many times as they wish.

The plan is to deploy the weapon over the next one to three years, Bond said. The M4s have not been bought yet, she said.

New York and other big cities, as well as many Chicago suburbs, already have equipped officers with assault weapons. A 2006 police standoff in Humboldt Park with a man armed with an AK-47 demonstrated the need for superior firepower, officials said.

One lieutenant said he thinks the department should first improve officers' access to shotguns.

The lieutenant, who asked not to be identified, said eight shotguns are stored in each of the city's 25 districts, but can only be used with a watch commander's approval and only in limited circumstances such as search warrants and surveillance. He recommended the department equip squad cars with gun racks to allow officers to carry them in the field around the clock.

"It's a devastating, close-range weapon at 50 to 75 yards," the lieutenant said of a shotgun loaded with a lead slug instead of pellets.

Lots of training is needed with the M4 because the .223-caliber bullets can travel a mile, compared with a quarter mile for pistols, he said.

The fitness tests are part of a broader training program for the gang, gun and tactical officers who want to carry M4s, Bond said.

Police Supt. Jody Weis, meanwhile, is proposing mandatory annual fitness tests for new and promoted officers starting in 2009--and voluntary tests for other officers. Cops who fail the test twice would undergo further evaluation about whether they're fit for duty.

Contributing: Annie Sweeney
 
I wouldn't trust the Chicago PD with matchlock muskets... without the slow matches.

It says a lot that the Department doesn't trust its officers with the shotguns found in the passenger compartments or trunks of nearly every police car in virtually every OTHER department in the country.

Back in the 19th century, a particularly stupid governor of New York, condemning money spent on weapons and training for the State Militia stated that they should instead be armed with clubs. If he'd been talking about the Chicago Police Department, he'd have been right. It'd still be risky, but I'd be willing to go THAT far out on a limb.
 
"If you are grasping for breath, the weapon could waver up and down," she said.
This is not a problem with pistols?
The lieutenant, who asked not to be identified, said eight shotguns are stored in each of the city's 25 districts, but can only be used with a watch commander's approval and only in limited circumstances such as search warrants and surveillance.
Sounds like Los Angeles until the North Hollywood bank robbery shootout.

Pilgrim
 
Either they're using the carrot-and-stick method for getting the officers in shape or they're not wild about the CPD being armed with M4s, and wish to limit the amount of officers authorized to have them.

Either way, I can't say I disagree.
 
they're not wild about the CPD being armed with M4s, and wish to limit the amount of officers authorized to have them.

Bingo. Remember that Daley has decreed that RETIRED Chicago police may NOT carry a concealed weapon even though FEDERAL law allows them to.

They had a HUGE press conference about this last month, huffed-and-puffed, and now pulled this stunt.
If they want to institute ongoing career-long PT standards for new hires and such that's great; but this really is not the thing to hold up as a 'reward' to my thinking. And the 'logic' is just crazy.
 
:what: Like a fitness test is going to make them qualified. Give me a break. What they really need is a lot of marksmanship training and disipline along with physical training. Geez. :rolleyes:
 
1.5 miles in 14 minutes? This is hard? I hope that is in full gear shleppin the rifle. Otherwise that is not a test. That is a fast walk or a shuffle not a run. No offense but if you cant do 100% bench press and pull ups and 30 situps you should be riding a desk or parking meters.

Our Orange county sherif was so fat he could not pass any PA test- since then I have been sour about LEO physical fitness... let alone their wepons training and lack of equipment.
 
Fish Miner said:
1.5 miles in 14 minutes? This is hard?

No kidding. The entire police force should be able to make those standards. I'm 58 years old and I can exceed those parameters, I do it every day at the gym. Yikes, the police should have the finest fitness facilities and personal trainers on the map.

What these parameters tell us is that a large percentage of the officers in question cannot meet the minimum standards.

That's good to know. All I have to do is run away and get 1.5 miles away from the cop and I'm home free.
 
P.O.W.E.R.? If they don't pass will they be a Prisoner Of What Emergency Room? Hehehe...he it's the morning coffee. If I were a cop there I'd be raising a stink, or transferring. If a gun is seen fit to be issued, those could benefit from it should receive it. Regardless, I do agree every cop should be able to pass those standards.
 
That's good to know. All I have to do is run away and get 1.5 miles away from the cop and I'm home free.

Physical "Standards" set a baseline for what is determined to be the average acceptable level of physical fitness needed to complete your job on a daily basis.

With that said, you may outrun the cop, but you can't outrun the Motorola. :neener:

BikerRN
 
Sounds like he wants a trained elite private army...

Um, there's nothing elite about those test standards. They're a joke. Physical fitness is a survival tool for a police officer. If you can't (easily) pass that test as a LEO, you're putting undue risk on your own life and the lives of your fellow officers.
 
The PT standards don't seem all that high, although I don't see it is directly related to the rifle issue all that much.

It may be an image thing. The new super may not want fat cops photographed carrying rifles around town.

<added> remember this is the same dept that years ago gave suspensions for cops being shown in the paper or on TV not wearing their caps. didn't matter if the copper lost their cap in an alley chasing a perp, or just forgot to put it on.
 
A male officer between 30 and 40 years old must run 1.5 miles in 14.3 minutes, do 34 sit-ups in a minute, bench press 87 percent of his weight and do a 15-inch sit-and-reach.

Wow, the bar is set so low that it's not even a bar, more like a speed-bump. I'd like to know what any firemen on THR think of these "standards."
 
glad to hear that pistol rounds only travel 1/4 of a mile too. Brilliant. Wunder if whoever wrote that would care to stand 1,321 feet away from where folks are launching pistol bullets in their general direction, that miss their intended targets,....and hit the admittedly little open air space they have there in the Big Windy?
 
I am in favor of the physical fitness test on any and all of the police departments around the country. I'm from a small town and I think only one of our LEOs is under 300lbs. Plus they all smoke. Nothing like seeing our finest riding in their units with a cigarette hanging out their mouth. A person can't even go into their squad room without gagging for breath. Very fine for the kids around here to look up to. In retrospect, maybe our little town should pay more for better quality.
 
BikerRN said:
With that said, you may outrun the cop, but you can't outrun the Motorola.

C'mon, blood, we all have once or twice.

And that's my point. Why didn't these guys already have the best training and gear?

If a younger man free of the statute of limitations *cough* can get away on a shovelhead, certainly there are more modern criminals that do worse. Why did the possible use of new firearms uncover a large failure of readiness?
 
Not very stringent standards, perhaps a good incentive to get more officers in shape. The rationale is off though if they think being proficient with an M4 requires being able to meet these physical fitness requirements.
 
I'm 44 years old and can exceed those standards so going through a physical ability test is just another example of making employees jump through the hoops to get what they need.

"The City hasn't bought the weapons yet",,,,,,,,,,,,,
 
Why does anyone try to apply logic to ANYTHING done in rarified air of The Hallowed Halls of Gub'mint in general or to anything that comes out of one of these socialist-elitist stink holes in particular?

When you sign up to be a politico, you surrender the part of your brain that gnaws at your insides screaming, "YOU CAN'T HONESTLY THINK ANYONE BELIEVES YOU!" and replace it with a governor that blips a constant loop of, "they are of no consequence."

What do these twits care about the lives of Cops? They couldn’t give two desiccated turds about their constituents. Does anyone think they care more about their perceived minions?

And as to the Second City Princes in Blue (those cops who long ago added, “My own political career,” to the common coin of, “To Protect and Server.”); How does is feel to be a peasant? Not so loverly. Is it?
 
Wouldn't a weapons proficiency class combined with marksmanship requirements be better suited instead of Gym class?

I can't believe they are bypassing their Shotguns as well...8 in the whole district? Are they kidding?
 
PT tests-fitness for sworn LEOs...

I think it would be a good plan for a major LE agency(like Chicago's PD) to require PT tests/fitness training for sworn LEOs but I think more US police depts/LE agencies should follow the example of the US DoE(Energy). From what I understand, US DoE policy for the SWAT/security/spec ops is to give each officer an extra hour or two fully paid and provide all the fitness equipment/gyms, :D. This is a good way to improve/maintain fitness levels and it benefits the DoE officers($$$ and health). The US DoE SWAT units always do well in contests/demos so I guess the system works for them, ;). The major PD in my city has a free 24-7 access fitness center for all city employees. How many use it I'm not sure :rolleyes:.

I'd add that fitness is not everything to a sworn LEO's conduct/duty actions either;
About 9 years ago, I had a good friend and co-worker(a sworn federal LEO and retired US Army MP/E-7) that had to deal with a violent, intoxicated criminal who broke into his home, :uhoh:. My friend is about 5'07" but weighs 275-300lbs. The LEO was able to stop the criminal and detain him until more uniformed police officers answered the 911 call.
That to me was a good example of training and skills being more important that "looks".
Rusty S
 
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