And so IT Begins... The anti-gun Parade

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today from the Usual Suspects

The New York Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/03/opinion/03tue4.html

October 3, 2006
Editorial
Three School Shootings

No one will rise up to defend a man who walks into an Amish school, lines young girls up against a blackboard, ties up their feet, and then kills them before killing himself. But a surprising number of people will inevitably rise up to defend his guns, to call the man guilty but his weapons innocent.

When Charles Roberts snapped, the tools lay ready to hand. It is not clear what led him to seek out a quiet country school in Lancaster County, Pa., but it is possible he chose it because he knew that it belonged to a trusting, insular community, where there would be no one to stop him from entering with a shotgun, a rifle and an automatic pistol.

This is the third school shooting in a week. What will stick in almost everyone’s minds is the gross disparity between Mr. Roberts’s murderous intentions and the bucolic peacefulness of an Amish school in early October. But this killing is no different from the ones that took place in Wisconsin and Colorado recently.

The weapons were the same, and so was the conflict between the hideous assault of a damaged mind and the atmosphere of openness and trust that makes education possible. There are no simple solutions to this conflict. It is neither possible nor tolerable to secure every school or guard every child. Nor is it possible or politically tolerable to keep tabs on every gun. But in these killings we see an open society threatened by the ubiquity of its weapons, in which one kind of freedom is allowed to trump all others. Most gun owners are respectable, law-abiding citizens. But that is no reason to acquit the guns.

And the WashPost:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/02/AR2006100201197.html

Common Tragedy and Culprits
Shootings at an Amish school again point up the problem with guns.


Tuesday, October 3, 2006; A16

A school shooting is, by definition, obscene, yet there is a special horror to the tragedy in Nickel Mines, Pa. Perhaps it is because the setting, a picturesque community in Lancaster County, was so peaceful. Or that the target was a one-room Amish school amid fields of green. Or that the victims were young girls. Yes, there are unique features that make yesterday's attack a singular tragedy. There is, however, one aspect that makes it shamefully commonplace -- guns.

The 32-year-old man who walked into the Georgetown Amish School in a rural area about 60 miles west of Philadelphia had, authorities said, armed himself with a shotgun, a rifle and a semiautomatic handgun. After releasing all the boys and some women, the gunman barricaded the doors with boards and, having bound the feet of his victims, shot to death three girls before killing himself. Eight others were critically wounded; one of the wounded later died. "This is the last place on Earth that something like this would happen," Raymond Bial, author of books on the Amish, told Bloomberg News, as if being pacifist guarantees protection from the world.

Yesterday marked the third time in less than a week that a school was the site of a fatal shooting. In Colorado, on Sept. 27, a man armed with two handguns sexually assaulted some of the six girls he held hostage before killing one of them and himself. In Wisconsin, just two days later, a 15-year-old student fatally shot a principal. Like yesterday's shootings, each incident was tragic and certainly each had unique circumstances, but all -- including near-tragedies in Florida, North Carolina and Nevada that barely made headlines -- shared the fact of the far-too-easy availability of guns.

At this early stage, it is not known what drove Charles Carl Roberts IV to yesterday's rampage or whether it could have been prevented. Indeed, there are those who will argue that nothing -- least of all laws controlling guns -- can stop a madman. That doesn't mean, though, that we shouldn't try. Sadly, rather than making it harder for the wrong people to get guns, some in Congress are seeking to make it easier. Witness the recent vote by the House of Representatives to make it more difficult for authorities to crack down on bad gun shops. Thankfully, the Senate didn't have time to take up that measure.

Our sympathies go to the people of Nickel Mines. We hope that the singular calamity that befell this community will wake up the nation to do something about the madness it can control.

At least the post got the "semi-auto" thing right, as opposed to the Times.
 
Ya'll may know this, but back in the days of the "wild west", schoolchildren went armed. They walked or rode horses through Indian country to get there... it might have been hostile Indians, outlaws, or just predatory animals. Now in light of the Amish school shooting and this last one in Colorado as well as so many other school shootings we've heard about over time, my opinion is that because of the anti-gun crowd kids are going to school in "Indian country" again, but the difference is they can't defend themselves with firearms for obvious reasons. I think the avenues for self-defense in schools need to be opened up, but I wouldn't advise anybody to hold their breath as long as we have the same old blissninnies pushing their same old agenda.


perhaps a better solution is to let CCW holding teachers to be able to carry in the classrooms.
 
Everybody knows that you keep the guns out of the hands of criminals by keeping them out of the hands of law-abiding citizens. See the paradise formerly known as Britain.
These papers are saying that gun control wouldn't do a damn thing to protect these kids, but we should do it anyway, so the antis can feel better.
 
Oh my GOD a DAIRY TRUCK !!!

It wasn't the inanimate object firearms that caused it

It was the inanimate object Dairy Truck - think about it - he sat in that truck for HOURS 5 days a week! He spent many more HOURs with the truck than with his guns! It must be the evil influence of the DAIRY TRUCK that took over his mind and soul (because we all know that in the 21st century America Humans are no longer responsible for their actions only inanimate objects and corporate deep pockets can manifest evil- all together now baaaah, baaaah, baaaah).

We must start a campaign to outlaw DAIRY TRUCKS! If even one child is saved from the evil of DAIRY TRUCKS it will be worth it to never have dairy products again. ALso, PETA knows that diary producers torture cows! So its the DAIRY Products and their evil cohorts in crime the DAIRY TRUCKS that must be banished from society!

First we outlaw them then we eliminate all reference to dairy trucks and products from the history books, then we bury our heads in the sand (or up our axxes) and bleat , baaah , baaah, baaaah, all will be taken care of.

Problem solved please contact your local and federal politicians.
 
you cant stop

school shootings.Just like you cant stop burglars or car jackers, no matter how much security you have in or around yer home if some nutbag wants to break in bad enough and steal yer belongings he /she will find a way around yer defenses.
 
Here in RI

The local talk show hostess this afternoon asked if keeping schools gun free zones was just inviting this sort of incident.
And, K-Rom, I can't ever remember a call for automobile restriction after a hit and run fatality.
 
I hate to take an angry tone in this time of heartache for so many, but here's my real, honest reaction to all of the recent school shootings (what are we up to, about 5 in 3-4 weeks, if we count the Toronto, ON shooting?).

You want to stop attacks on schools tomorrow? These school shootings can be stopped instantaneously, if the people in a position to do something about it would simply REMOVE THE NO-WEAPONS RESTRICTION. This isn't something difficult to comprehend. The burden of guilt should be upon the shoulders of those who allow this environment to be so under-protected. Even in "normal" public places there's a half-a-chance that a citizen will be carrying. Not in a school zone. In a McDonald's, there's a chance that someone will have a knife, gun, pepper spray, a board with a nail in it... not in a school zone.

Each of us should write, call, or email our representatives, and express our collective outrage that this scenario should even allowed to present itself. And if our representatives don't respond, then, by God, we should vote them into retirement from office.

My thoughts are with the families and the victims, and the communities in which these tradgedies were carried out. Let's take our time to remember the innocents that were removed from our lives, but let's not waste any time in making sure that more will not follow.
 
This will be used against us gun owners whether we do something about it or not. The anti's will probably use the school shootings to push a bill through congress further restricting civilian gun ownership. You can bet on an AWB II or equivalent within a year. All I know is stock up on ammo, magazines, and firearms now, before you can't get them later.

Picture a restriction not just on certain kinds of guns, but how much ammunition and how many magazines, as well as how many firearms one household can be in possession of. That's what I see happening.
 
I'm a senior in high school, and they just installed a massive new surveillence system of cameras, we have a rent-a-cop, picture IDs, and lockdown drills. This string of shootings has made me wonder how safe the school is and the conclusion I've come to is not very. The Lock Down drills call for the teacher to lock the door and everyone to huddle in a corner with the lights off, this serves to bunch everyone together and makes us an even easier target. Cameras do nothing to protect us, and the rental cop is a 70+ year old guy who is unarmed. Students have no ability to defend themselves thanks to zero tolerence, and our schools are made even more unsafe by the Gun Free Zone laws. Schools are defenseless, its a fact. What we need is CCW teachers and most importantly, practical emergency EVACUATION plans in the event of a shooting or similar event.
 
Every AWB or restriction has been pushed through a Democratic Congress, and NEVER a Republican Congress. You suppose this next election is a wee bit important??? The problem is, the Amish are pacifists, so CCW would have done very bit as much good as another gun law. This could not be prevented by any reasonable rule of law. The man was an evil man who got better than he deserved.

Yet, the anti's are of course going to, like Jessie Jackson wiping the blood of MLK Jr. on his sweater, wipe the blood of the innocents on their faces and march forward into battle. The truth does not matter, but then it never has.

Ash
 
It is absolutely hopeless. You can't argue with liberals.

Why is it that liberals grow and flourish only in big cities?

Liberalism is not a philosophy but a MENTAL ILLNESS.
 
I'm a senior in high school, and they just installed a massive new surveillence system of cameras, we have a rent-a-cop, picture IDs, and lockdown drills. This string of shootings has made me wonder how safe the school is and the conclusion I've come to is not very. The Lock Down drills call for the teacher to lock the door and everyone to huddle in a corner with the lights off, this serves to bunch everyone together and makes us an even easier target. Cameras do nothing to protect us, and the rental cop is a 70+ year old guy who is unarmed. Students have no ability to defend themselves thanks to zero tolerence, and our schools are made even more unsafe by the Gun Free Zone laws. Schools are defenseless, its a fact. What we need is CCW teachers and most importantly, practical emergency EVACUATION plans in the event of a shooting or similar event.
Obviously, you "get it." Please multiply your wisdom by sharing it with your peers. Please.
 
perhaps a better solution is to let CCW holding teachers to be able to carry in the classrooms.

I think having armed CCWing teachers in class is a good idea. Nowhere did I opine that arming students is always a good idea in this day and time with the lack of parenting and gun safety training as well as the decline in common sense. However, if you look at LawDog's blog and the comments to his most recent articles, a student may be armed with knowledge and mindset as sm was talking about. Mindset is the important part... the will to survive and the idea to use whatever tools/weapons as they present themselves under conditions which necessitate their use. You don't have to have a firearm to be armed to the teeth with tools that don't require a CCW permit.
 
And the grieving parent asked, "Dear Lord, how could you have let this tragedy happen once again?"

And God said, "How could I stop it? They don't let me in the schools anymore."
 
I am worried that this summit Bush is planning will decide that we need a new AWB. We already know Bush supports it, and after the November elections, he would have no political reason not to push for it.

If he has the opportunity to create a legacy for himself at the expense of the Constitution, I believe he would do it.
 
I think I'm of the camp who is actually quite optimistic as far as the implications on the 2a.

I work with a lot of bleeding hearts and people who love to play the blame game on everything almost always totally ignoring the problem. Not a one blamed guns. Almost to a T, they said that the situation was unavoidable... that no law would have stopped that man. He knew what he was going to do, and whether or not he had guns wouldn't have even mattered.

One said that maintenance men should carry handguns. Hows that for an opinion lol.

Everyone who asked my opinion on the matter heard my spiel about gun-free zones and how criminals and those who seek attention know that they are soft targets. I brought up how I cannot bring my pistol to college, even though I have a permit. So, basically, unless there IS a cop there, the school is defenseless against anyone who has the determination, crazy mindset and lack of remorse needed to carry out such a crime. I told them that law-abiding, responsible citizens should be allowed to carry everywhere, including schools.

A few of them agreed. I was amazed.

Maybe this will swing some people around to our side...

Too bad for those kids though. God, who the hell picks on the AMISH???? What an evil man.
 
Quote:
I volunteer to head up the inevitable "alphabet soup" agency.

It should be called the ASS, or the Amercian School Safety Agency


So, let me get this straight, you are going to head up A.S.S. ?


Most Certainly!

My official title in A.S.S. will be Head Officer of Learning & Education.

It will be the perfect agency to secure our schools.
 
While I think that allowing carry in school would be a very good thing, I don't think it would change much in respects to school shootings. Schools are not just soft targets because the people inside are disarmed, they're soft targets because the possible responder to possible hostage ratio is very low. This isn't Israel, and few school faculty/staff members have the right mindset even if they were armed. Unless sm's idea is implemented and everyone, including children, in the school is armed, allowing carry in schools won't change this.

My idea? Keep a locked rack of Tasers on every classroom wall. In case of emergency, racks open, tasers fall out, students pick them up and wait in the corner for someone to come in...
 
Quote:
And no, I don't think arming school children is a good idea.

Why can you arm yourself but I can't arm myself?

Rock on man, I;m with you. Though coming to think of it, I wouldn't trust half the kids in HISD with ruuber bats, let alone guns. :uhoh:
 
My idea? Keep a locked rack of Tasers on every classroom wall. In case of emergency, racks open, tasers fall out, students pick them up and wait in the corner for someone to come in...

Great idea..until you have a false alarm (anything that is electronic will be guaranteed to have false alarms upon installation and at random intervals ever after). You just know there are going to be kids tempted to taser each other, and it would turn into a mind-boggling mess.
 
I respectfully disagree.

Again for the record, I am single , I have no kids, and I am an older returning college student. State law says no guns on campus where I am.

I am responsible for ME.
I am responsible for passing on as passed was to me.

I am NOT
going to pass forward to students, of any grade or age - they are to give up being "armed", they are to give up liberties for the sake of freedoms, they are to submit to any evil.

I will NOT , I do not care if they dress different than I, if they listen to music different than I, if they read books I do not care for.

It is MY responsiblity to carry myself and to attract by example what responsibilty is, and how relates to personal responsiblity to safety.

Media, Gun Control , Politicians and School boards use argruements that "kids are not able to take care of themselves" , or "kids act so dumb and stupid, how can we trust them to drive cars at 16, hunt with guns, bring knives to school..."

Not me. I never have, never will.

I cannot CCW on my campus - it does notmean I am not armed. Too many folks put way too much stock on Hardware, and not Software.

Well I am fed up with Tryanny not only brainwashing folks, including students of any grade or age, in regard to Hardware [guns, knives, scissors] Tyranny is also brainwashing folks, students of any grade or age in regard to Software.

Surveillance cameras, metal detectors and all this other crap to brainswash Hardware and Software away from human beings, that have human rights.

I showed a kid age 8, and her mom a college classmate "being armed" with a #2 pencil. We talked about everything in a classroom, hallway, restroom..."being armed with the brain, means anything can be a defensive tool"

Books have been banned trying to kill freethinking, this "software". Well grab that liberal pc of garbage book they make you read, use the corner and go for the Adam's Apple.

"Oh but I cannot have my Ultimate Blaster and SuperDuper knife". Poor thang...you have invested in Hardware, are just as disarmed as a 3 year old that wets pants in daycare then.

At least a 3 year old has the gumption to beat a bug, a spider , a worm with a coloring book if "in fear".

At least a "girl" of 15 years of age will use a lamp, a shoe, a magazine, Combo lock off a locker...to stop an immediate threat.

Oh yeah, I am totally fed up with people passing forward "give up". Be they liberals, gun owners with Ultimate Blasters, parents not "parenting" or adults not "adult-ing".

I can pass forward to HS student, with a "biker chain" attached to his wallet, to choke the life out an attacker in HS if need be using that "chain". He does not like Bob Seger, I have no idea what he was listening to. He has some green highlights and piercings, I have a mustache. I drive a truck , he drives a riceburner.

"Thanks dude, its all good. I'll sharpen a #2 pencil or two, and keep one in back pocket, practice that chain idea too...".


I broke a vehicle antenna off a vehice to defend myself against muliple threats once. I was on property that the statues say I cannot CCW.

I may not of had my CCW, I was still armed. My brain goes where I go. Evil disguised as Tryanny will never have my brain.
 
So what are some improvised weapons a level headed student could use? I don't like going to school with all the shootings that have been going on recently and I know better than to think "it won't happen here." All I would need would be something to get me to my car alive. I've got it figured out from there.
 
Here's a simple solution to the school shooting problems we are currently facing....1) REPEAL THE GUN FREE SCHOOL ZONES ACT! THIS LAW IS IDIOTIC, MIGHT AS WELL PAINT A TARGET ON SCHOOLS.
2) ALLOW SCHOOL OFFICIALS/TEACHERS THE OPTION OF BEING ARMED, EMPHASIZE FIREARMS TRAINING COURSES.
3) WE NEED TO DEAL WITH THE SOCIAL/CULTURAL PROBLEMS THAT ARE CAUSING THESE TEENAGERS AND ADULTS TO BECOME DERANGED LUNATICS. I BELIEVE THE BREAKDOWN OF THE FAMILY UNIT PLAYS A LARGE PART IN THIS PROBLEM.
4) GUNS ARE JUST TOOLS, INANIMATE OBJECTS, IT IS STUPID TO BLAME THE TOOL, INSTEAD OF DEALING WITH THE ROOT MENTAL CAUSES.

As a side note, if the Dem's win Congress in November and they start talking about another assault weapons ban, I am going to load up on high cap mags, I might even go ahead and buy that AK-47 I've been eyeing for awhile.:D
 
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