Angel Shamaya Jailed in Michigan on Gun Charge

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He moved to Mi.
He started the paperwork.
Takes time.
Till the paperwork is done, you are in illegal posession.
Nice trap they set, yes?

That's not exactly how it works. The "safety inspection" process doesn't take much time at all, especailly if you are moving into the state and the pistols are already in your possesion.

If you move into the state, you take your pistols to the local P.D. (or Sheriff if there is no local P.D.) You explain that you moved into the state and need to have the pistols you purchased out-of-state before you became a Michigan resident "Safety Inspected."

The police have you fill out a "Permit to purchase" for the pistol. My understanding is you would list yourself as both the seller and the buyer (the form is normally used when you buy a pistol in the state).

The police will then "Safety Inspect" the pistol. They'll record the serial number, run a LIEN check (usually, if not always) and fill out your "Michigan Pistol Safety Inspection" card. The "Safety Inspection" card is three parts. One is retained by the local P.D., the second is sent to the Michigan State Police and the third is given to the owner of the firearm as proof that the "Safety Inspection" was completed. Even though it is called a "Safety Inspection," it is a registration and many police departments do call it that.

There is nothing inherent in the process that would make it take more than one day when you are brining in pistols from out-of-state as a new Michigan resident. You could get your "purchase permit" and have the "Safety inspection" done on the same visit.

Normally, if you were buying a gun as a Michigan resident, you'd have to get the "Purchase permit" before you pick the gun up from the gun shop and then you'd have to return to the P.D. for the "safety inspection. This means you have to make multiple trips to the P.D. The "Purchase Permit" is valid for 10 days after issue to allow for this. Obviously, this isn't the case when you already have the gun in your possession because you brought it with you from out of state.

The only things I can think of that might add time to the process is if the local P.D. restricts the hours that they will issue purchase permits or perform safety inspections. The P.D.'s are supposed to offer this service during normal business hours, but some P.D.'s do set limited days or hours for this. The "purchase permit" is also required to be notarized and, if the P.D. does not have a notary, I can see where this would add some time because you'd have to pick up the permits, find a notary to get it notarized, and then return. Most P.D.s will notarize the permits though.

I also believe that state law says you have 30 days to have pistols "safety inspected" when you move into the state. I could be wrong on this though, as I don't have the law in front of me.
 
I have been reading this thread for quite sometime now........Hard not to reply. A few years ago I moved to Michigan on business, taking my firearms along with me, to say Michigan is pro-gun is baffling. I had to register every handgun I owned and 3 were held for processing because they were not registered in the past 10 years. After attending a gunshow in Detroit metro area I requested a transfer back to a state of liberty, Ohio. Any state requiring registration on a FTF transaction, IMHO, is not pro-gun. Hey, maybe I'm just lucky I live in Ohio. My $.02.
 
I see your $.02 and raise you $99.98.

Anybody else going to send in some money to Angel's legal defense fund?

Rick
 
He moved to Mi.
He started the paperwork.
Takes time.
Till the paperwork is done, you are in illegal posession.
Nice trap they set, yes?
The paperwork takes about 5 minutes, depending on the office.

And anyone who moves to Michigan from another state, and has handguns, has 30 days to get their weapons properly registered.

The way it works is this, you go to the local PD or Sheriff's office and get a permit to purchase for each handgun you have. You fill out the form as though you're selling the weapon to yourself. IF you happen to remember where you bought each gun from, fine, fill that in. If not, it's no big deal.

Once you've filled that out, take the completed form, and the weapon (unloaded and in a case) back to the place you got your permit to purchase. They record the info, fill out a card and give you one for each weapon.

For the most part, it's pretty painless. Some counties though are a bit harder than others. I've heard horror stories about Wayne county (Detroit is in Wayne county). And city police departments are sometimes a pain in the butt.

It's called a "safety inspection." But it's not really much of an inspection. When I first moved here, one of the guns I had registered was a black powder .36 New Army replica revolver. The mainspring was broken and it wouldn't work. They didn't even notice.
 
I have been reading this thread for quite sometime now........Hard not to reply. A few years ago I moved to Michigan on business, taking my firearms along with me, to say Michigan is pro-gun is baffling. I had to register every handgun I owned and 3 were held for processing because they were not registered in the past 10 years. After attending a gunshow in Detroit metro area I requested a transfer back to a state of liberty, Ohio. Any state requiring registration on a FTF transaction, IMHO, is not pro-gun. Hey, maybe I'm just lucky I live in Ohio. My $.02.
You're lucky you don't live in New York!

Prior to my moving to Michigan from Illinios, NONE of my handguns were registered, so I don't understand why they'd hold any of yours for not being registered.

Ohio may not register handguns, but they surely need to fine tune their CCW laws.

And hey, the Brady Campaign gave us a D+ for 2004, we must be doing something right.
 
Latest Update:

http://www.marbut.com/Angel/update 030506.html

Dear Friends of Angel,
So many of you have asked for updates about Angel's situation, and I am sooo swamped dealing with this situation, that the only way I could hope to keep you informed is to add you all to a general email list - my "Friends of Angel" list. That's why you are getting this email.

The information I broadcast here will be somewhat generic, because I must consider it to be in the public domain.

Angel moved to Michigan to be close to his son, a very high priority in his life.

Because of a malicious complaint (my opinion) that Angel was dangerous and had unregistered guns, a SWAT team raided his domicile yesterday. I was tagged to be something of a nexus in the recovery effort partly because I was on the phone with Angel when the SWAT team showed up at his door, partly because I'm also a friend of Angel's, and partly because of the curse or blessing of my get-it-handled-now personality.

As soon as I knew that Angel was in jail, I called Alan Gottlieb of SAF to get a referral for a local attorney. I found one from the SAF list who had his cell number on his office answering machine, and who answered his cell phone promptly, a bit after 5 PM CST. This attorney got after Angel's situation immediately, and I phoned Nicki of KeepAndBearArms.com next to hatch a plan to get the word out and start the reference letters coming. These letters will be delivered to Angel's attorney electronically, Monday morning.

Today, an associate of the attorney I contacted yesterday appeared to represent Angel at the arraignment, and got him sprung from jail on a bond (the bond was not steep). I was out of the loop in the middle part of the day today because it was the scheduled Annual Meeting for MSSA in our State Capitol, Helena, Montana (yes, thank you, I am still president).

I talked to Angel on the phone within 20 minutes of his release (and several times since). Of course, he's angry, frustrated, bummed, and distraught - who wouldn't be under these circumstances? But, he's coping.

Angel has an immediate need of protection from the consequences of any more malicious police reports. We're working with some Michigan folks to provide Angel with company to document his whereabouts and activity until this is resolved. If you know anyone in Michigan (Detroit/Pontiac area) who might help with this, let me know.

We are also sketching out a fundraising plan for legal expenses that should come together within about 48 hours. Stay tuned for more about this.

In the mean time, Angel is facing four misdemeanor charges, three of which are for guns that were not yet registered properly under Michigan law, but which Angel was in the process of trying to get registered. Bad timing and a malicious complaint - what can I say.

But, I believe, your many and kind letters will help establish with the court that Angel is an upstanding guy.

Thanks loads for your concerns, your help, and your many offers to help more. I'm sure Angel would want me to go heavy on thanks to you too.

I am scheduled to teach the second day of a two-day precision riflery class tomorrow, and will be out of the loop all afternoon. Other than that period, I will keep you updated as new and significant information becomes available.

Best wishes.
Gary Marbut, president
Montana Shooting Sports Association
http://www.mtssa.org
author, Gun Laws of Montana
http://www.mtpublish.com
 
So let me get this straight.

He moved to Michigan in September? You'd think that someone of Mr. Shamaya's caliber of knowledge about firearms laws, rules, and regulation that he "forgot" to register his firearms?
 
Lonnie, didn't you ask a similar rhetorical question pack on post #83?

Is it your goal to derail this activism?

Two questions for you...

1) If you were judge or juror, would you convict or acquit?
2) Have you donated to Angel's legal defense fund?

Rick
 
Lonnie, didn't you ask a similar rhetorical question pack on post #83?

Is it your goal to derail this activism?

Two questions for you...

1) If you were judge or juror, would you convict or acquit?
2) Have you donated to Angel's legal defense fund?

1) I would vote to acquit definitely on the firearms charges, because I believe the Michigan constitution's RKBA clause is supreme. The menacing charge I have no further information on, I am not sure. Angel's and his friend's statements that his wife is making up everything does not fly with me at this point. As a victim of stalking by a sociopath who later claimed something along the same lines, that all I do is lie, and so on, I cannot so easily dismiss her claims about him. Sorry.
2) No I have not, and I will not until I get an explaination as to why Shamaya did not register his firearms. If he refused to register due to his own personal objections, or whatever, the answer is no. You'd think someone like Angel Shamaya would know the nooks and crannies of all of the state's laws on possession and carrying of his new state of residence.
 
If he refused to register due to his own personal objections, or whatever, the answer is no.
I'm not sure why it matters, and I thought it was stated above.

He was in the process of completing the "safety inspections" having contacted the authorities to inquire as to the method earlier that week. When the SWAT team entered the house and told him why they were there, Angel showed them the open browser window on his computer on the government web site for the purpose, and he asked them to print it out (which I recall that they did).

Does that cover it? :confused:

Rick
 
He was in the process of completing the "safety inspections" having contacted the authorities to inquire as to the method earlier that week. When the SWAT team entered the house and told him why they were there, Angel showed them the open browser window on his computer on the government web site for the purpose, and he asked them to print it out (which I recall that they did).

There's just this one itty bitty little problem: He moved to Michigan in September. It is now March. 6 months. Michigan is not a situation like New York where you cannot even possess a handgun unless you register it and then transfer it in, a 6 month to a year issue. The law gives him 30 days to register, at least according to what someone posted in this thread.

Why won't anyone answer my question? Why would one of the supposedly premier firearms enthusiasts basically let it slide for 6 months. That would be like Sandy Froman and Wayne LaPierre all of the sudden moving into New York State with handguns, even though they should know better than anyone that bringing it into New York State would be verbotten without the process.

If he was a regular joe gun owner, I could cut him some slack and I'd help contribute. However, Angel Shamaya is on the same level of knowledge on firearms laws as people in the ILA's local lobbyists. This isn't a CAL-DOJ situation where they change the rules and then banning things that they said were legal before.
 
Why won't anyone answer my question? Why would one of the supposedly premier firearms enthusiasts basically let it slide for 6 months.

Do we know for a fact that he brought those guns with him from Arizona six months ago or whether he just picked them up from his brother-in-law's house back in Arizona when he visited last week?
 
ANYTHING is possible, including that MAYBE the guns are registered. Remember, the local LEOs were going on information provided by someone else. So who the heck knows???
 
Um, how could they prove just how long the guns were in MI? Some super-duper CSI magic-tech?

My understanding is that the police don't have to prove how long the guns were in Michigan. The possession of unregistered handguns is a crime. The fact that you had just moved into the state within (I believe) 30 days would be an affirmative defense against that crime. In that case you could show evidence that you have been in the state less than 30 days and the clock has not run out on the timeline.

Now, if someone wants to make a claim that while they have been a Michigan resident longer than 30 days, but they just brought the guns into the state within the last 30 days, the burden of proof would be on the defendant to show that the guns just came into the state. The possession of the unregistered guns is the "proof" and you'd have to show that they actually have been in the state less than 30 days.

I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, etc, just my understanding of the situation in Michigan.
 
Why won't anyone answer my question?
Because you are asking us to speculate on facts not in evidence and that have no bearing on me sending in $100 for his legal defense.

If you're really concerned about this, why not start a new thread rather than attempting to derail this one?

Rick
 
Guilty until proven innocent?


Hmmm, I'll just avoid MI then.
That's an interesting comment, considering it comes from someone living in California. ;)

In case you hadn't noticed, "guilty until proven innocent" is pretty much the rule in this country. Yeah, I know. It's supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty." But let's face it, it's RARELY that way in real life.
 
My understanding is that the police don't have to prove how long the guns were in Michigan. The possession of unregistered handguns is a crime. The fact that you had just moved into the state within (I believe) 30 days would be an affirmative defense against that crime. In that case you could show evidence that you have been in the state less than 30 days and the clock has not run out on the timeline.

Now, if someone wants to make a claim that while they have been a Michigan resident longer than 30 days, but they just brought the guns into the state within the last 30 days, the burden of proof would be on the defendant to show that the guns just came into the state. The possession of the unregistered guns is the "proof" and you'd have to show that they actually have been in the state less than 30 days.

I'm not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, etc, just my understanding of the situation in Michigan.

Rob,

You're right. Possession of a handgun that has not been "safety inspected" is a misdemeanor. A potential defense might be that you had only recently acquired the pistol and had not yet brought it to the police station for inspection. The burden would indeed be upon the defendant to prove such a defense.

A person who moves to Michigan and establishes residency has an affirmative duty to have his pistols inspected. The statute does not specify that you have thirty days, however I believe the State Police website has a reference to a thirty day period. I do not know what the authority is for that. In the absence of a specified time, the law presumes a reasonable period of time.

With respect to the proposition contained in your second paragraph, I do not believe that there is any lawful way for that situation to occur. I think that anyone who does not possess a Class 1 FFL, must have a pistol tranfered to a licensed dealer in Michigan and than effect transfer through the FFL.

I could be mistaken, I only play a lawyer in real life. ;)

Ron
 
Looks to me like he has bad taste in ex-girlfriends.

Seriously, the guy is NOT a hothead, she's saying he threatened her (which is how the whole thing started) and I flat don't believe her. I say that having come to a parting of the ways with Angel once over "differences in political tactics" but he never so much as raised his voice over the phone (neither did I).

She's lying and I think at this point she's just cackling with glee at the latest bad press:

-----------------

http://www.wxyz.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4519504,00.html

Gun Cache Found in Condo
By Cheryl Chodun
Web produced by Sarah Morgan
March 6, 2006

A local man was charged with keeping a stockpile of weapons inside his condo and police said he threatened a woman, but Monday he was back on the street.

Oakland County Sheriffs found 15 illegal handguns, 10 long guns and 17,000 rounds of ammunition in 38-year-old Angel Shamaya’s condo.

Police went to the condo, confiscated the weapons and arrested Shamaya.

"Obviously the ammo is a concern. The biggest reason it’s a concern is because of the threats he’s made against her," said Undersheriff McCabe.

Shamaya, whose named used to be Scott McReynolds, was arraigned on a weapons charged and let out on bond.

-----------------

Jim again. Problem is, that crazy ex has probably seen at least some of the guns more than a month ago. Sigh.

So he's going to have to fight the "threat claim" against her on one front and the constitutionality of the registration on the other. Dayum.
 
Guilty until proven innocent?


Hmmm, I'll just avoid MI then.

Obviously, your not familiar with the concept of "affirmative defense." It's not just a Michigan thing. For instance, in California the possesion of an "assault weapon" is against the law. If a LEO saw you with an "assault weapon" in public, say at the range, he could arrest you and it would be up to you to provide proof that the "assault weapon," which appears to be illegal on the face of the matter, is actually legal because you registered it before the registration deadline expired.

In that case:

The crime is posession of an "assault weapon."

Your "affirmative defense" would be that the weapon is, in fact, legal because you registered it before the deadline. You would have to provide proof, such as the registration paperwork, to support the claim.

The idea that it's "Guily into proven innocent" sounds wrong and backwards until you realize that these are actions that, on their face, seem illegal and the burden is on the person commiting the apparently illegal action to show how they could indeed be legal.

Btw, the same thing holds true in most cases involving the use of deadly force in self-defense. The willful killing of another human being is a, "Homicide." On the face of it, any "Homicide" has the great likelyhood of being an illegal act. The person who used deadly force now has to show how this apparent illegal act was justified by the circumstances. The fact that they needed to defend themselves and that self-defense is a legimate reason to kill another human being is their "affirmative defense."

Once again, not a lawyer and not legal advice, etc.
 
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