Annoyed at my new job...

[mgregg85]

So I got a new job now that I have moved back to michigan from NC. I am doing industrial security and hopefully I will start going back to college so I can find something better. Anyways, my new job is 100% anti: CCW, guns, weapons of any kind, pepper spray etc and they probably won't like the 4D maglite I keep in my bag. They made us watch a few videos on security and workplace violence as part of our training and one of these videos covered workplace shootings.

Some of the warning signs they said you should look out for included 'interest in firearms', and specifically 'an interest in semi-automatic weapons or assault weapons'. I became annoyed with this and scoffed at the idea when the instructor asked me what we should look out for while on duty. I informed her that I was an avid shooter and interested in firearms of all types, yet I've never had the desire to go anywhere and shoot people. The rest of the class kinda looked at me like I was nuts for having the gall to admit to such a crazy hobby and the instructor lady said that this was the best way to spot nuts who might shoot the place up.

I'm really surprised to have found such madness in michigan, hunting and shooting sports seem pretty prevalent here. Now i'm afraid to bring my gun magazines to work for fear of being reported and I am thinking about peeling my NRA stickers off the car and lunch box so I don't get 'randomly searched'.

 

[novaDAK]

Report them for workplace discrimination. The 2nd amendment has been affirmed as an individual right just like the first and the rest of them.

 

[2TransAms]

Industrial security with no weapons of any kind? Geez,even the mall cops have pepper spray.

Not to be glib,but this all sounds like you need a different job. Did you know all this before you signed up?

 

[mgregg85]

I didn't know at the time, I figured worst case scenario, we would only be issued pepper spray. I was hoping for batons or something better.

The company does do security for some nuclear energy plants across the country and I'm hoping to transfer to one of those outfits eventually. The nuke security guys get ar-15s among other toys. In the mean time, they pay well and its such easy work. I made slightly less as an industrial electrician and I would rather do this job, its much safer and cleaner and easier. I'm trying to decide now if I want to carry against their rules for my own protection.

 

[2TransAms]

There might be more ramifications than just getting fired if you carry after they told you not to. Might be some legal issues too.

 

[mgregg85]

I am trying to figure out that legal side now before I go ahead and do it. As far as I can tell, michigan's laws treat carrying on private property marked with 'no guns' signs the same as trespassing. They can ask you to leave and if you don't you could get in trouble for trespassing. Of course this doesn't apply to the list of places you cannot carry at like bars, sports arenas, etc.

Now the location I am at has no signs whatsoever, just in the employee handbook and training we were told it was not allowed.

Anyone know more about the legal side of this? What does MI state have to say about this? I'm not trying to be a mall ninja, I just don't want to be defenseless in the very rare instance that someone would want to shoot me on the job.

 

[Duke Junior]

So I got a new job now that I have moved back to michigan from NC

Come back to North Carolina as quickly as possible.
There is madness here also,but that quite that much!

 

[Caimlas]

Report them for workplace discrimination. The 2nd amendment has been affirmed as an individual right just like the first and the rest of them.

At first that sounds like a good idea, but on second thought, who'd you report them to?

Though, I'd say it'd be a good basis for a civil suit against them, should you be terminated or should the harassment continue.

And as 2TransAms said: you should find another job. No, you shouldn't have to put up with that nonsense, and you shouldn't have to, but pragmatically speaking, you do and that's just the way it is (for now). Either fight it with all your effort, put up with it, or look elsewhere, I say. And if they decide to fire you with that to be the perceived cause, well... nopefully for your sake Michigan isn't a right-to-work state.

 

[Thernlund]

Some of the warning signs they said you should look out for included 'interest in firearms', and specifically 'an interest in semi-automatic weapons or assault weapons'.

That would send me right off the end.


-T.

 

[gripper]

I work security in a variety of settings.The problem ,these days ; is that the fruitcakes have taken over both the HR types at the security companies;AND many of the client contacts.
I almost got in trouble a week ago ;when a husband and wife who aorked for the client asked me about self defense/home defense...My answeres included the following:
1) Work on your physical conditioning and general health.
2)Always remain aware of what and who is in your immediate environment.
3)Keep a cell phone on you ;as well as valuables secure and discreet.
4)Take the time ( while bettering your physical conditioning) to learn a form of self defense/unamarmed combatives that will both challenge you AND teach you practical (read survival) skills.
5)While learning #4;take the time to learn the follwing;A)Improvised defensive toolsB)Purpose built less than lethalmoving on to lethal devices.
6) Become educated on safe and responsible firearms ownership/usage and carry;with th eaddendum that in Massachusetts you need a permit to carry OC;so you might as well take out the Class A application to cover all your bases;knowledge being power an all that.
7) I also told them the usual home advise RE dogs;lighting ,alarms and independent cell phones.
They were receptive to the advice that they asked for. Someone else in another room heard or mis-heard what was being said and had a Moonbat Moment;speed dialing my supervisor and communicating how "disturbed " they were at hearing such a statement from "sopmeone who is supposed to protect us"....I guess they WERE "disturbed";go figure
But it worked out;my bosswas all worried until th efolks that were actually part of the conversation stepped up and pu thim to right.Imagine that! And they even drive a Prius

 

[Loosedhorse]

Security job with no weapon?

Seems like you're being given responsibility without the authority to fulfill it.

You: Sir you have to leave now,

Him: No.

You: Ah. Please.

Hey--I don't mean to imply you couldn't kick the tar outta someone if you had to...but is that a job?

Got an idea: "Don't move, or I'll use my cellphone and call the police."

Not unusual: my workplace has the same idea of security. Which is why I provide my own.

 

[mgregg85]

Seems like you're being given responsibility without the authority to fulfill it.

You: Sir you have to leave now,

Him: No.

You: Ah. Please.

Hey--I don't mean to imply you couldn't kick the tar outta someone if you had to...but is that a job?

Got an idea: "Don't move, or I'll use my cellphone and call the police."

Not unusual: my workplace has the same idea of security. Which is why I provide my own.

Thats basically what I was thinking, if anyone comes with a weapon, i'll be the one running away while calling for help on my one and only weapon, the radio.

I would just like to be able to carry for my own protection, the handbook says you need written approval from the branch manager. I'm certain this approval would be denied if i asked for it and I am afraid to ask for it because I feel I might get more 'random' scrutiny and inspections if I ever did ask.

 

[azsixshooter]

I worked security at a bar where we were explicitly told we were not allowed to carry any kind of weapons. It was a pool hall and I got attacked a few times (usually blind-sided) as did most of the other guys. I got hit with a pool ball in the back, multiple times with pool sticks, once with a bottle thrown at me, once a glass ashtray and one guy, who was ex-82nd Airborne, was manning the door when a guy who was trying to sneak a pint out smashed it over his head.

The bar was in the middle of a big college town so I guess that is why they didn't want us macing or batoning anyone. The worst offenders were always cocky fraternity boys with a little too much liquid courage in them. Our boss bartended and he kept a mag light behind the bar, but he was an ex-Ranger and I never saw him need to use it on anyone. None of us were particularly big guys, but we all had some kind of training in martial arts/CQC and were in fairly good fighting shape.

There was one occasion when a group of skins beat down some black girl in there during the daytime before we ran a guy in the day. The only employee was a cute girl working the bar and she saw the whole thing but couldn't do much about it except call the cops. One of the guys who beat up the black girl threatened our girl not to testify and actually came back a couple of times looking in the window to try and intimidate her. We started keeping a bouncer on duty during the day during those times and I did bring my 21" ASP and my little Beretta 21A Bobcat loaded with CCI velocitors in my pocket _just in case_. I never told anyone or had to use either, I kept them concealed well enough in deep jeans pockets that there was no printing or any chance of falling out even if I was involved in a ground fight. Nobody was ever the wiser and I felt better for having a little extra something when that guy was coming around. Then again, I didn't have to go through metal detectors and I had no reason to believe that they'd ever randomly search me.

 

[mgkdrgn]

Thats basically what I was thinking, if anyone comes with a weapon, i'll be the one running away while calling for help on my one and only weapon, the radio.

I would just like to be able to carry for my own protection, the handbook says you need written approval from the branch manager. I'm certain this approval would be denied if i asked for it and I am afraid to ask for it because I feel I might get more 'random' scrutiny and inspections if I ever did ask.

The reality is .... you are not a security guard (as you can provide no security), you are a trip wire.

 

[papajohn]

I work Corporate Security as well, though our contract stipulates that we be armed, for several reasons. However, St Louis City ordinances stipulate that we can carry ONLY a 38 revolver, 4-inch, in a belt holster. No exceptions. I carry a lot of backup ammo, and practice speed-reloading a lot.

In your position, your job is to "Observe and Report". In other words, be alert, and be a good witness. Not get shot. Still, you're a sheepdog with no teeth. I've been offered those positions before, and turned them down. As I told them at the time, "If you're going to make me a target, at least let me shoot back". We carry guns at my post, but no OC or batons. Make sense out of that! (There's no reason for it, it's just our policy...............)

I'm sure there are other Security Firms in your area. Find one that offers Armed services, and join up. Otherwise, it's time to find a different line of work. The turnover in Security is pretty amazing. (I've outlasted 11 Captains in the last 6 years, and I'm a lowly sergeant, because I REFUSE to let them promote me.)

But I've said for years that if I am involved in an on-duty shooting, I have two things to do.......1.) Write a GOOD report, and 2.) Find another line of work. I can't go back to work in security until I'm cleared by SLMPD, and that sometimes takes MONTHS. In other words, use a gun to defend human life, and immediately get suspended without pay, indefinitely.

Good thing I'm just a stupid watchdog, or I'd get upset about it.

Papajohn

 

[novaDAK]

At first that sounds like a good idea, but on second thought, who'd you report them to?

No clue. I was just saying what I would do if we lived in a pro-2A world

 

[mgregg85]

In your position, your job is to "Observe and Report". In other words, be alert, and be a good witness. Not get shot. Still, you're a sheepdog with no teeth.

Thats about the exact wording of our training, 'observe and report'.

And the line about being a trip wire, its all true, I don't really mind but I would like to be able to defend my life if I absolutely had to.

 

[Oana]

Aren't there other security firms in the area? I'd say drop the job as soon as you can and find another, but that's just me.

Carrying as a security guard without permission - even if legal; I don't know MI laws - adds an extra layer of legal liability. I can see you getting into all sorts of legal trouble if you had to use it to defend yourself and someone came after you & the company for violating your workplace policies and "trying to be a vigilante". My $.02.

 

[ranger335v]

Mgregg85, in view of the fact that your employer has real security people with real responsibilities, it seems likely that the PC desires of your contractor company has made the rules for what they want. What they want is for others to protect them but to do so within a silly frame of liberal ideas based on hopes of helpless intemidation, not on facts.

Me, I would stay there as long as they paid me! Getting good pay for no responsibility but to show up in a rent-a-cop uniform seems like a pretty good deal! Thus, all you and your fellow workers are doing, or can do, is reassure the sheep with a foolish illusion that a protector is around. But no matter what they pay you, none of you are expected to provide any real protection to anyone!

You would find the same mentalities in control of the various NC Research Triangle Park companies, so there are no significant exceptions to it here. Don't ever expect liberals to make sense, they don't.

 

[lee n. field]

"Your assignment, if you choose to accept it, is to hide in a closet and call 911."

 

[Standing Wolf]

Now i'm afraid to bring my gun magazines to work for fear of being reported and I am thinking about peeling my NRA stickers off the car and lunch box so I don't get 'randomly searched'.

People who are afraid to exercise our civil rights don't still have them.

Personally, I'd figure it's time to start looking for a better job in a sane environment.

 

[Clipper]

I'm trying to decide now if I want to carry against their rules for my own protection.

Not only will you be fired, you can be arrested and you'll get your CPL suspended or lifted completely. Michigan only regards it as tresspsssing if you refuse to leave an unmarked establishment after you're found out and asked to leave. Willfully entering a prohibited area is a good way to get in serious hot water. I've seen enough guys hauled out of the shop unemployed and handcuffed to convince me...

 

[Zedo]

now if I want to carry against their rules for my own protection.

Good way to get tossed in jail.

As regards "random searches" --If you're working "security" your contract probably stipulates that you consent to being searched without cause.

 

[FourNineFoxtrot]

Sounds like my last job. I worked as uniformed security for an Indian casino, unarmed. Not even pepper spray, just a radio and a mini-maglite. Yes, a mini-maglite. A lot of guys carried pocket knives, against policy. I neither admit nor deny this.

It was spelled out to us quite clearly that we had no authority whatsoever to do anything except observe and report. This, naturally, didn't stop my bosses from telling me to do break up a quarrel or two, despite the fact that they probably could have sued me for even touching them (didn't occur to me until much later).

And yes, I've had that pointless conversation.

"Sir, stop [whatever you're doing]!"

"No."

"Okay." *key mike* "Uh, boss... the guy won't stop [whatever he's doing]. Oh, you're busy? And Tribal Police is on lunch? So... should I tell him to stop again, or just look indignant?"

Or, more often, the conversation would go something like:
Me: "Security shift manager, this is Four Nine."
Him: *static for 20 seconds* "Go ahead Four Nine."
Me: "Can you come to my 20?"
Him: *pause, annoyed sigh* "10-4"

20 Minutes Later, long after the problem has resolved itself by the guy ignoring me and wandering off, the boss shows up, "What's the problem?"


The money was good, and I learned a lot, mostly about how not to run a security department or casino in general. Eventually, though, I quit. The job was getting worse (more pointless BS), and gas for my hour-long commute wasn't getting any cheaper. I went back to school, in the probably vain hope that one day I can get a job that doesn't suck.

 

[mgregg85]

Willfully entering a prohibited area is a good way to get in serious hot water. I've seen enough guys hauled out of the shop unemployed and handcuffed to convince me...

This is contrary to what the lawyer who taught the legal part of my CCW class said. According to him, those signs have no legal authority in Michigan and the only thing the property owners could do is make you leave. Can anyone show how this would be illegal and what law it violates? I have read the laws pertaining to CCW in michigan and nothing has been said about the legal authority of NO CCW signs, in fact they weren't mentioned at all.

Regardless, there are no signs posted anywhere, just a general rule in the security company handbook.

I understand that my job is to observe and report, I've got no problem with that. I don't really mind the no responsibility part, I just want to be able to defend myself in a bad situation where I've got no other choice. The odds of this happening are probably one in a billion but if it did happen, I wouldn't care that I lost my job. I'd rather be alive and free of any unneccesary holes.