Another 1911 extraction question

[Tag]

Actually, this is my first 1911 extraction question, but I'm sure it's been covered once or twice.

The factory extractor on my plain old Kimber Custom II has the right tension to hold a round in place at the breachface while I jockey the slide around. My question is weather or not the little hook on the extractor should be engaging the case rim while it is held on the breachface?

When the case is being held in place by my extractor there is a little room where the case rim can move back and forth before the hook catches the rim...

As a side note, I think my flat follower 8 rounder is going to kill my extractor one of these days. The front side of my extractor has a little half moon marking on it which looks like it is a continuation of the round mark on my breachface. this looks to my novice eye like the extractor is jumping the rim, I assume on my flat follower 8 rounder.

any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

PS. I'll probably try a wilson extractor and some new 7 round mags with a proper follower, but I thought I'd ask for your 2 cents.

PPS. What kind of extractor does a Kimber Custom II take? series 70 or 80?
thanks.

 

[1911Tuner]

Extractor

Howdy Tag,

Your Series 2 Kimber takes the Series 80 type extractor.

The edge of the rim should touch the bottom of the slot behind the hook. That's what puts tension on the case. The tip of the hook should NOT touch the case in the bottom of the extractor slot...and ideally, it shouldn't contact the case on the front of the hook either. Very light contact probably won't hurt anything for a long time...Hard contact will cause the extractor to fail prematurely. How SOON it will fail depends on the amount of contact, and how much side-load it puts on the extractor. It's designed to take the side-load of putting correct tension on the case rim. Extra loading imposed by hard contact with the forward angle of the extractor groove stresses it beyond its design limits, even though the pistol appears to be functioning normally.

The distance that the case will move before the extractor hook grabs the rim is normal.

The half-moon dents are likely the result of the round jumping the follower and being push-fed. The cases also probably have a sharp burr on the rim adjacent to the mark. It usually happens on the last round, but can also occur before the last round, depending on how strong the magazine spring is. If it's a factory 8-round magazine, the spring is likely a little soft, so it
could be happening on the last two or three rounds.

The Wilson Bulletproof extractors usually require that the right side of the firing pin stop be filed or stoned to fit... but sometimes not. The Brown Hardcore extractors usually don't require it. The Wilson is more of a gunsmith fit part, and requires tweaking in other areas around the hook, while the Brown is closer to a drop-in. Both are very good extractors. I
also hear good things about Caspian's extractors, but have never tried one.

Hope this answers your questions...If ya got any more, just sing out.

Tuner

 

[Kruzr]

The stock Kimber extractor is a Series 70 type. The Swartz plunger doesn't impede on the extractor channel like a Series 80 FP block does so there is no need for the little "loop". A Series 80 extractor will work just fine though.

 

[1911Tuner]

Kimber Extractor

Kruzr said:

The stock Kimber extractor is a Series 70 type. The Swartz plunger doesn't impede on the extractor channel like a Series 80 FP block.

I pulled one out of a fairly new Kimber2 that was pure Series 80. As far as I know, it was OEM. At least that's what it was sold as. Reckon somebody been messin' with it...or vendor error?

Anyways..thanks for the correction Kruz...I'll hafta investigate this a litle further. My step-son has two new ones at the pawn shop. He'll let me take a peek tomorrow. I'll report back.

 

[Kruzr]

The original extractor from my Kimber Stainless Target II (same as in my CDP Pro.) Gun was made in late 2001.

The current extractor in the gun is a Wilson Bulletproof Series 80. I couldn't find a Series 70 at the time.

 

[1911Tuner]

Kimber Extractors

Thanks for the pix, Kruzr,

The one that I saw...and it's the only Series 2 Kimber that I've been into...
was supposedly new. I may have just assumed that it was the OEM extractor....and ya know what they say: When you ASS-ume, you make an A-S-S outta ...well...just me this time.

The guy came by with a friend of mine with extractor problems...Not enough tension. I was in a little rush that day, so I whipped it out and
did the expedient tension bend on it...checked it, and sent him on his way.
I'll call my bud and have him ask the guy if somebody's been into the slide.

Curious...

Stand by for more info...

 

[Tag]

thanks for all the info Tuner and kruzr.

looks like a brown extractor is my best bet... would one of those tensioning tools help with the installation or is there some trick to that too?

Thanks again guys, your the best.

 

[1911Tuner]

Kimber Report

Okay...Went to the pawn shop and checked both Series 2 Kimbers. Both had Series 70-type extractors. Finally got hold of the guy who owned the one that I saw with a Series 80 type. He bought the gun new...but the catch is that he bought it from a gun show vendor. The gun is an early
Series 2, and he says that he's done business with the guy in the past and trusts him.

Kruzr...is it possible that Kimber ran into a parts vendor problem and grabbed whaever was available to meet market demands? Or...is it
more likely that somebody dinked with the gun before this guy bought it?

Have you heard of a Series 80-type extractor showing up in new Kimbers?

Standin' by...

 

[Kruzr]

Kruzr...is it possible that Kimber ran into a parts vendor problem and grabbed whaever was available to meet market demands? Or...is it
more likely that somebody dinked with the gun before this guy bought it?

Tuner, in the past year, I've only seen the external extractor on new Kimbers coming across our counter. Prior to that, I probably adjusted over 20 brand new extractors on Kimbers (they never did a good job at that) and have never pulled a Series 80 out of one of them. I don't know if they outsourced their extractors or machined them in-house.

If I had to guess, I'd say it wouldn't be a stretch to think the gun was purchased and returned because it had FTF's or FTE's due to a poorly adjusted extractor. Then someone at the dealer replaced it. Kimber extractors show the signs of bead blasting on the back. If the one you saw is smooth, I'd say it was an aftermarket addition...........probably an improvement but aftermarket nonetheless.

 

[1911Tuner]

Bead Blast

In the Law Enforcement bidness, they call that a clue...

It's been a few months...but as near as I can remember, the butt was
smooth. Probably a dealer replacement...maybe an irate customer demanding a refund and the shop had a smith on call...

Mystery solved! Thanks Kruz!

Seems we learn somethin' ever' dang day...

 

[Tag]

Hey tuner, if the brown extractor is not 'drop in' as I hope it will be, what goes into the installation.

I just read your wonderful post on extractors and was wondering if this is the fitting you were talking about? here

 

[1911Tuner]

Link

Howdy Tag,

That would be it...except that I probably need to go in and edit that post a little. I'd leave the inboard pad along, and remove the material from the outboard...unless there's a spec issue that requires modification of the inboard pad.

Also, on the front pad...the one that locates the hook relative to the breechface centerline...I'd start at about .130-.132 inch and approach the .125 dimension carefully. Easy to take more off...tough to put it back.

MOST...slides work well with the .125 dimension, but once in a blue moon,
you'll find one that doesn't do as well. The caveat applies just in case you have one of those. By and large, I've never run into a Colt or a Springfield
that didn't work with .125 inch...but an early Kimber that I had my hand in recently didn't. Purely a matter of tolerances. Proceed with patience.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Tag]

thanks again Tuner.