Another 870 question, this time about slug guns

[armedwalleye]

MN is a split state, rifles in the north, shotguns with slugs or pistols in the south. Lost my 25 year hunting spot in the north due to a property sale, so I may be hunting in the shotgun zone this fall.

I do want to stick with a 12 gauge 870. They're relatively inexpensive, been around forever, there's lots of them, and they're pretty reliable.

Thoughts, if you would, then, on an iron sighted slug barrel; a slug barrel with a saddle mount that uses the trigger group pins to hold it in place with a picatinny rail on top of it with a scope; or a cantilever barrel with a scope. Looking for info about Pros and cons, experiences a plus for each/any. I'm expecting shots out to 100 yards.

The saddle mount option to me seems like it sits pretty high to get a decent cheek weld.

Also, any thoughts on using a Wingmaster or an Express as the donor?

 

[Armored farmer]

I used a saddle mount for my scope for years, it worked fine.
The setup wouldn't fit in my usual gun as. It was an awkward cheek height. I was also using my 1100 for upland hunting at the same time, so it was on, and off, and rechecked.
I like the cantilever mount barrel better. The scope is mounted directly on the barrel. No wikki-wokki from the reciever/barrel mate.
I set my son up with a cantilever rifled barrel. He traded the barrel in on a savage 220 slug gun. Wow! Good trade! The savage is like a rifle.
Imho the savage is the best solution.

 

[Mn Fats]

I can't answer the saddle mount question. Though I easily prefer the Wingmaster over the Express.

I personally have an 11-87 with a slug barrel with a 2-7 Luepold if I ever decide to hunt south of 95. I don't plan on far shots but I do prefer a scope over irons for low light hunting scenarios.

Good luck op!

 

[earlthegoat2]

If I were to go with an 870, it would be a cantilever barrel every time.

However, there are some folks out there who pin the barrels with a set screw and mount the scope to the receiver and swear up and down they are more consistent. I have no reason not to believe it but would still prefer the cantilever mount.

If I was only going to slug hunt with the gun, I would find an H&R Ultra slug in 20 ha or use the Savage 220 @Armored farmer suggested. He also has an H&R so it would appear we have similar tastes.

20 ga gives up so little to 12 ga and recoils so much less there is very little reason to not get one unless you already have a 12 or a 12 is cheaper to purchase....which they usually are because 20s are usually in higher demand for all the reasons previously stated.

 

[cdb1]

I would not go with a saddle mount either. Give me a cantilever barrel.

 

[jmr40]

For what you want to do the Express is the better option. The shiny finish of the Wingmaster is like deer hunting with a flashing neon sign on your gun. If you're playing the clay games or upland hunting the flashy finish of the Wingmaster is OK. The Express is 1/3 to 1/4 the cost and is every bit as reliable.

The 870 is my preferred pump gun, but slug hunting isn't a top priority for me. I have a rifle sighted cylinder bore barrel for slugs and buckshot use. I'm able to keep 5 shots into 4-5" at 100 yards with irons. That is good enough for my purposes. If forced to use only a shotgun for hunting I'd go in another direction.

If I were going to mount optics I'd choose a pump gun drilled and tapped for traditional scope mounts. Both the Benelli Nova and Mossberg pumps only need a traditional base. There may be others, but I'm aware of those. And in your shoes would probably go with a model with a fully rifled barrel capable of shooting sabot slugs. Combined with a scope you can stretch the usable range to 200 yards or maybe a bit more.

Can you use one of the straight walled pistol cartridges in a rifle? The 450 BM, 350 Legend and others are tailor made for many of these states.

 

[armedwalleye]

...….Can you use one of the straight walled pistol cartridges in a rifle? The 450 BM, 350 Legend and others are tailor made for many of these states.

Nope. Unfortunately, in MN, the shotgun zone is limited to shotgun or pistol only. While an AR pistol in something like a 300BO is an option, I'm considering that separately and would prefer to focus on a shotgun with some sort of a slug barrel.

 

[mcb]

Grew up in a slug only state. Spent a lot of years hunting with regular pump shotgun with a regular smooth bore. The first two deer I killed were with a Browning BPS using the standard vent-ribbed barrel and good old Remington Sluggers.

Rifled slug guns can be legitimate 200 yard guns but doing that takes lots of tinkering and playing. Its achievable but not easily or cheap to get setup. The bolt action Slug Guns are going to be the best for this but again not cheap. As other have pointed out cantilever slug barrels are probably the next best thing if you focused on using and 870. Sabot slugs are also not cheap to shoot and again are just as finicky as the slug guns that shoot them.

If you're on a tight budget I would go with a standard 870 Express and set of clamp on the rib rifle sights. TruGlo makes some very nice and affordable rifle sights that clamp on the vent rib. Then pick up a few boxes of your favorite reduced recoil slugs (no need for full power slugs for deer IMHO). With minimal tuning this can be a legitimate 100-120 yard deer gun on the cheap both the gun and the ammo.

Foster slugs usually like a cylinder bore but if you have choke tubes in you selected gun don't be afraid to try a slightly tighter choke to improve accuracy. Start with your most open choke tube and if you are getting bad groups try the next tighter choke tube incrementally. My 1100 actually shoots Remington Managed Recoil Sluggers best out of a modified choke tube.

 

[Armored farmer]

If I was only going to slug hunt with the gun, I would find an H&R Ultra slug in 20 ha or use the Savage 220 @Armored farmer suggested. He also has an H&R so it would appear we have similar tastes.

My 12ga h&r, son's savage 220 20ga for comparison.
We have a few 870 express around here. I think they would be fine for a dedicated slug gun, although I much prefer the wingmaster.

 

[entropy]

Cantilever mount barrel, preferably Hastings. I harvested several deer with just that setup in WI before we went to all rifle. I only got to hunt shotgun zone in MN one year before I moved to WI, down by Jordan, and I let a small doe go by me, because there was a kid in the next copse over. It was his first deer.
The Savage 220 is what I'd use now if I had to.
Saddle mounts work, but they do tie up the gun for deer only while they are on the gun.
The best thing about a cantilever mount barrel? You wanna hunt ducks after sighting in? Pop the barrel off and put your 30" on. Sight in time? Pop the barrel on, fire 5 to verify zero, done. My zero never wandered in 20 years with that Hastings barrel, and that was with a cheap 2.75x Bushnell Sportview.

 

[d2wing]

I use a 11-87 with a saddle mount and shoot Winchester sabot slugs. I get decent accuracy out to 75 to 80 yards. Because of the rapid drop of slugs beyond 100 yards I consider that the realistic maximum range of a slug gun in field conditions. However some specialized slug guns can extend that range with the right ammo and near bench rest conditions. I also have a Mossberg 500 slug gun as it was cheaper than just the barrel for my 870. I like the 11-87 better. I used to hunt near Henderson and near Mapleton. I much prefer hunting in the rifle zone and now hunt near Tamarac National Wildlife refuge. I would imagine that a cantilever mount is better than a saddle mount but you are not going to get rifle accuracy or range anyway. I use red dot sights.

 

[Armored farmer]

Fyi
If you overtighten a saddle mount....it will bind up the action.

 

[EIB0879]

I bought a Mossberg cantilever rifled barrel for my 870 (yes they make them) a few years back. Caught it on sale for $160 direct from Mossberg. Put a Nikon PS 2-7x BDC on it and chaged the stock out for a thumbhole Rem stock. It's like shooting a rifle.

 

[entropy]

You can get better than 100 yards with the right barrel/slug combination. My Dad nailed a doe someone else had jumped up in a creek bed, and gut shot with a bird barrel and Foster slug. We later used the rangefinder with me standing where he hit the deer, just over 225 yards. Double lung shot, she dropped right there. When she did, they guy yelled over "HOPE YOU DON'T THINK THAT'S YOUR DEER!" My Dad yelled back"NOPE-JUST DIDN'T WANT IT GETTING AWAY FROM YOU!" He used a 24" Hastings (Are you sensing a theme here?) rifled cantilevered barrel with Winchester Sabots. I was using a 20" Hastings on my 870, with Hornady SST Sabots, and was confident out to 200. Longest shot I was presented? 70 yards.
I forgot; I said earlier I didn't get a deer with my 870 in MN, but yes I did. The day after that I got a 6 pt. buck at 35 yards-my Dad was rattling and the buck was so intent on getting there, he never saw me tracking him with my 870; when he stopped to jump over a log, I dropped him wit an SST through the aorta. This was on a family farm just outside Kingston, MN.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Over at the ASSA, Hastings barrels are regarded as being generally more accurate than others.

 

[PapaG]

After fifty years of 870s using everything from a riot barrel to a cantilever Hastings I switched to an Illinois legal rifle, the Savage 220, and haven't looked back.

 

[Kingcreek]

I have used an 870 with slug barrel and rifle sights for years. If I anticipated shots over 100 yards I would cantilever mount a scope.
I have dropped a buck at 112 yards. Most of my shots are under 50 yards.
The savage bolt guns are better than anything else

 

[22250Rem]

Fyi
If you overtighten a saddle mount....it will bind up the action.

........ Or else the action on a Remington 870 will work fine for a while until something in the trigger assembly breaks and the gun becomes inoperable. Guess how I learned that ? That was when I replaced the saddle mount, as the 'smith who repaired my trigger assembly also did a receiver mounted Weaver rail by drilling & tapping and also setting the rail down in a bed of epoxy. This was done in the early 1990's which, IIRC, was before cantilever barrels were available for 870's (?). Been fine ever since but nowadays those cantilever barrels are the way to go. I still have that saddle mount here, complete with its installation instructions. I'm sure it would work fine as long as it's not over tightened enough to cause the receiver sides to flex inwards, leading to trigger trouble. Here's the 870 with the weaver rail. . And the old B-Square 870 12 ga. saddle mount. . Along with the instruction sheet dated August, 1989. .... I'm still cleaning out the man cave so if the OP wants to try a saddle mount I'll send this one for shipping costs. Or to the first interested party if the OP isn't interested. Do they even make saddle mounts for shotguns anymore? Haven't seen one in years. I bet they stopped making them shortly after cantilever barrels appeared (?). Although they're a lot cheaper than buying a new barrel. E.T.A. Instruction sheet says it will fit an 1100 also.

 

[Armored farmer]

........ Or else the action on a Remington 870 will work fine for a while until something in the trigger assembly breaks and the gun becomes inoperable. Guess how I learned that ? That was when I replaced the saddle mount, as the 'smith who repaired my trigger assembly also did a receiver mounted Weaver rail by drilling & tapping and also setting the rail down in a bed of epoxy. This was done in the early 1990's which, IIRC, was before cantilever barrels were available for 870's (?). Been fine ever since but nowadays those cantilever barrels are the way to go. I still have that saddle mount here, complete with its installation instructions. I'm sure it would work fine as long as it's not over tightened enough to cause the receiver sides to flex inwards, leading to trigger trouble. Here's the 870 with the weaver rail. View attachment 938439. And the old B-Square 870 12 ga. saddle mount. View attachment 938440. Along with the instruction sheet dated August, 1989. View attachment 938445.... I'm still cleaning out the man cave so if the OP wants to try a saddle mount I'll send this one for shipping costs. Or to the first interested party if the OP isn't interested. Do they even make saddle mounts for shotguns anymore? Haven't seen one in years. I bet they stopped making them shortly after cantilever barrels appeared (?). Although they're a lot cheaper than buying a new barrel. E.T.A. Instruction sheet says it will fit an 1100 also.

Mine was on an 1100.

 

[armedwalleye]

............ I'm still cleaning out the man cave so if the OP wants to try a saddle mount I'll send this one for shipping costs. Or to the first interested party if the OP isn't interested..

22250Rem, I do appreciate the offer, but I would only be taking it from another who may be able to make use of it, so I would decline.

The problem I have is I’ve got a 80s era wingmaster with that high gloss everything.. and way too nice to paint or dip. If I’m to go the 870 route I need a beater wingmaster, or an Express, and would need a slug barrel in addition anyway, plus the scope or with the scope. With the current shortage of everything, even an express is $350 used, plus even a smoothbore slug barrel is another $150, plus a scope., or $300 for a cantilever and scope combo....

I today had hands on a Savage 220, and, at that $500 mark, and I can get it as a left hand besides, which is preferable to me, that option is looking more attractive than building an 870 slug gun given the cost of the parts.

Kind of sad, really, the days of beater wingmasters seem to be gone for a while. I recall a pawnshop that had them in a barrel, stocks sticking upward in umbrella fashion, with a sign offering choice at $200...

 

[entropy]

This was done in the early 1990's which, IIRC, was before cantilever barrels were available for 870's (?).

I was given mine as a present from my Dad Xmas 1988. He'd had one for his 1100 several years before that.

 

[22250Rem]

If I had to get myself a slug gun today it would be a Savage 220. They are outstandingly accurate and you really don't need a 12 ga. to harvest deer. 20 ga. Sabot slugs work just fine. My 1987 vintage 870 originally had a rifle sighted smoothbore slug barrel but its had a fully rifled Remington barrel for about 20 years now. Shoots good and is zeroed at 100 yds. but at that range I can't get groups as tight as the Savage 220's I've seen. Now I'm wondering if those early cantilever barrels were available fully rifled? Back then even screw in chokes were somewhat new and they offered those screw in rifled choke tubes, remember those? I guess they didn't work as well as promised (?) or else they would have been more popular. I think Armed Walleye would be best off getting a Savage 220 versus buying and converting a beater 870.

 

[cdb1]

I’ve never lived in a state where shotguns must be used for hunting deer. Seems like it would be a pain in the a$$. If I did I’m pretty positive I’d get a Savage 220.

 

[entropy]

Now I'm wondering if those early cantilever barrels were available fully rifled?

Yes they were.

Back then even screw in chokes were somewhat new and they offered those screw in rifled choke tubes, remember those? I guess they didn't work as well as promised (?)

No, they didn't. I tried one in a 28" RemChoke barrel. Didn't improve accuracy at all, either with sabots or Brennekes.

 

[Carpman62]

If shots are not going to be 100 yards or less, go with a standard Remington 870, use a full choke and foster style slugs, have the receiver drilled and tapped for a solid scope base mount, and most definitely have the barrel pinned to the receiver! This is not a permanent installation, but it made my 30" barrel go from shooting 8 inch groups at 75 yards less than 3" at 100.

I have shot a lot of deer, turkeys and hogs with this particular 870, and in over 10 years of use with lots of kills, it's accuracy is still dead on.

And before someone asks, NO, I don't shoot turkey's with slugs! I just like using a scoped shotgun because of my aging cataract eyes. My turkey load is a 1 3/8 oz. load of nickel plated #6 shot, and out to 35 yards, it will completely remove a turkeys head.

For slugs though, a Remington Buckhammer slug in the front shoulder will anchor a deer on the spot.