another child killed (while robbing people) with a gun

[gunsmith]

very interesting! This is a NJ case and it was an unregistered gun used in self defense
http://www.nj.com/news/times/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-4/114313446619290.xml&coll=5#continue
Boy, 15, killed in robbery was carrying a pellet gun
Boy, 15, killed in store robbery had pellet gun
Thursday, March 23, 2006
By LINDA STEIN
Staff Writer
Daquan Cullers, the 15-year-old boy who was shot and killed while trying to rob a corner store, was armed with a pellet gun, an assistant prosecutor said yesterday during a bail hearing for his half-brother, Larry D. Walton.

But the black, metallic pellet gun that Cullers was carrying in the March 13 holdup at La Nueva Grocery on North Clinton Avenue appeared to be a real firearm, Assistant Prosecutor John Carbonara said.
Bail for Walton, 18, was kept at $250,000. He, David Colvin, 19, of Norman Court in Hamilton, and a 14-year-old who is identified only as also being Walton's half-brother are being held on robbery and weapons charges, Carbonara said.

Police said Colvin, a known gang member, was arrested Sunday by the NY/NJ Regional Task Force. He also is being held on $250,000 bail.

Carbonara said a store worker was ambushed at gunpoint by a side door of the bodega by three males who forced him to let them into the store. When Cullers entered with his pellet gun, a clerk grabbed a gun from under the counter and fired one shot.

Walton, who turned himself in, "admits planning the armed robbery," Carbonara said.

Police reported that Walton told them he stayed outside during the attempted robbery, but other witnesses said he was inside the store.

In 2002, when Walton still was a juvenile, he was sentenced to two years probation for burglary, Carbonara said.

Defense lawyer Diane Lyons asked that Walton's bail be reduced but Superior Court Judge Thomas Kelly refused, saying there is "a high likelihood of conviction."

"This was an armed robbery that resulted in death," the judge said. "What we're dealing with here is historically, one of our more serious crimes. As a result of what happened, someone is dead."

While the gun used by the store clerk was not registered, the case is still under investigation and no charges have been filed against the clerk, said Casey DeBlasio, spokeswoman for the prosecutor.

-- -- --

Contact Linda Stein at [email protected] or (609) 989-6437.

 

[ARperson]

Hopefully, the real victim in this will not be charged with anything, though I am not holding my breath on that one.

It's a shame that children are not taught by their parents to make better decisions and that one of them had to die because of his poor decisions, but.....actions have consequences and I do not hold the victim responsible for the child's death in as much as he was merely defending himself. He did not seek the boy out to shoot him.

Wonder if this death will be added to the number of children killed with a firearm statistic?

 

[Double Naught Spy]

When you play with the big boys, you play by their rules. There are consequences for poor judgment, stupidity, etc., even as when one is a child. Sometimes, children who do bad things manage to not grow up because they get themselves killed.

Oh well.

[PS Yep, I could not care what as the person was. He used a pellet gun as a threat of lethal force, never explaining that it was a less lethal pellet gun. The use of the gun to show that he was capable of force, perceived as deadly force. For the person being robbed, it does not matter what the age of the threat is if the intended victim is threatened with such force. Nobody likes killing kids, but they like it less than being killed by kids.]

 

[Manedwolf]

I would be all for a justified-use-of-force law caveat that if a perpetrator willingly has painted over or removed the orange tip of an airsoft/etc gun and uses it in an armed robbery, IT COUNTS as a lethal weapon!

How are you supposed to know the difference otherwise? Ask them to hand it over to inspect it?

 

[James T Thomas]

without understanding

This is just a symptom of a larger malady. Our culture with it's driven urge to have a society where the "children" are in charge, where trends in music, entertainment, consumer goods, clothing fashion, etc. have been cultivated by economics to abandon and reject all adult authority, perspective, and guidance has resulted in the twentyfirst century "brave new world."

Don't bother with the old fogie sarcasm please. If what your eyes behold and your ears bring to your brain does not establish the deterioration of society that exists, then you will not understand.

"Eyes, that have been closed, ears that have become dull of hearing, and a heart that has 'waxed gross,' walking in the 'vanity of their mind,' to the point of having the understanding of it all darkened.

My regret is that the gradeschool children will not even recognize, just as the current young adults do not, just how this all came about. They will live with all the strife and accept it as inevitable. "Perilous Times."

 

[Standing Wolf]

Walton, who turned himself in, "admits planning the armed robbery," Carbonara said.

If he'd lived longer, he could have got a cushy government planning job.

 

[whm1974]

I'm sorry, but what standered is a 15 Y/O that commits adult crimes considered a child?

The punk brought this on himself.

-Bill

 

[gunsmith]

the Sarah Brady standard

I'm sorry, but what standered is a 15 Y/O that commits adult crimes considered a child?

unfortunatley, this will be added to the rosters as a child killed with a gun.

So the next time an anti says "blah blah children a day are killed by guns"
you can point to this case and tell them that without "kids" like this one, you don't have a leg to stand on.

 

[Sleeping Dog]

painted over or removed the orange tip

The orange tip doesn't mean much. If a bad guy paints the muzzle of a gun orange, is it less deadly? No, it just means he can carry it around without attacting as much attention.

Regards

 

[mzmtg]

I bet the robbers were good kids who never hurt anybody and were just trying to turn their lives around...

 

[LAK]

Manedwolf

I would be all for a justified-use-of-force law caveat that if a perpetrator willingly has painted over or removed the orange tip of an airsoft/etc gun and uses it in an armed robbery, IT COUNTS as a lethal weapon!

Orange tip or not, as far as I am concerned any gun - is a gun. Unless - on a case by case basis - I happen to know or am able to decide otherwise.

I had a boy point a rifle at my head from a few yards away once. Turned out it was a toy, and it did not take me long to figure it out. But in the few seconds between start and finish the onboard computer was racing, and alot of different things could have happened. In those days, a bright orange tip may have given me some relief alittle earlier. These days I would need more convincing; as a bright colored barrel tip may be an intentional ruse for reasons not immediately apparent.

---------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Pellet guns don't have orange-painted tips because they are technically low-powered firearms and not toys. I imagine that in the right circumstances a powerful enough pellet gun could kill a human. I know they do the business on rabbits and squirrels.

There is a certain amount of tragedy here, to be sure. The culture that these kids and their parents live in is clearly a failed culture. The kid who died was too young to really understand the gravity of his actions, and the he didn't create the failed culture into which he was born. But tragedy or not, 15-year-old youth or not, the kid committed a grave act with grave consequences and the world will be a better place without him and with his brother and friends locked up for life.

 

[medic_guns]

Reminds me of the robbery in Georgia last year in which two teens tried to rob a store, only to be caught in a cross-fire that resulted in their deaths. The married couple that ran the place blasted their thug behinds. It is sad that teens have to die like that. In this case, one of the teens shouted at the old man to hurry up with the money right before he received a lead shower instead. Stupid is as stupid does.

The Medic (formerly)
Now the Public Accountant

 

[Sistema1927]

"This was an armed robbery that resulted in death," the judge said. "What we're dealing with here is historically, one of our more serious crimes. As a result of what happened, someone is dead."

Sounds like they have some really stupid judges in the PRNJ.

That "someone" who is dead is the idiot who decided to embark on a life of violent crime. Good riddance, the gene pool is purer today (assuming the perp didn't leave a couple of girlfriends knocked-up). Maybe we need to reintroduce the word "reprobate" back into our national vocabulary.

 

[Soybomb]

Pellet guns don't have orange-painted tips because they are technically low-powered firearms and not toys.

I would disagree and say if there's no fire, theres no firearm.Certainly many states enjoy calling them firearms and regulating them, but I think thats just gun grabbing

Can you really blame culture? If the culture were to blame wouldn't he be the rule and not the exception? How about bad parenting?

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

Can you really blame culture? If the culture were to blame wouldn't he be the rule and not the exception? How about bad parenting?

Certain cultures seem to foster bad parenting: cultures that tolerate high illegitimate birth rates, or even encourage them; cultures with high numbers of single-parent families; cultures that engage in rampant drug abuse; cultures that have a disproportionate number of fetal alcohol and unwanted babies; cultures that don't place value on things that help raise members out of poverty, like education. I grew up in one such culture--poor rural white people--and I am now surrounded by another such culture--poor urban black people. It used to be that there was still a strong enough sense of community in the poor rural white population that there was still a strong social taboo against violent crime and property crime, but that has changed in recent years thanks to the meth epidemic.

Culture plays a huge role in crime rates because, as pointed out above, culture largely shapes parenting philosophies. But an even greater reason culture plays such a huge role in crime is because of peer pressure. If the criminal element is highly regarded, and even glorified in the culture, the members of that culture are more likely to emulate the criminal element.

 

[Manedwolf]

Reminds me of the robbery in Georgia last year in which two teens tried to rob a store, only to be caught in a cross-fire that resulted in their deaths. The married couple that ran the place blasted their thug behinds. It is sad that teens have to die like that. In this case, one of the teens shouted at the old man to hurry up with the money right before he received a lead shower instead. Stupid is as stupid does.

I don't think that's sad at all. Instead, I'm glad that the criminals bought it before they had a chance to hurt or kill an innocent person.

If someone decides that they're going to commit violent crimes, they're of no use to society.

 

[sm]

Master Cullers will not be doing that again, nor will he be breathing my air anymore. One less person breathing my air, and one less candidate for Cell College .

Always the intent of the person - not the inanimate object .

Pink with yellow polka dots T- ball bat can be cute in a T- ball game - or if the intent is to bash a skull , a pink with yellow polka dotted T ball bat will injure, maim or kill.

T-ball bat doesn't know - it is inanimate. User is responsible for intent of how inanimate objects are used.

NJ will be satisfied when all that is left is brains of residents, just brains sitting in a glass jar on a shelf. Hands, feet, legs and everything else will need to be banned to protect folks from themselves and others.

I think someone alread wrote that script in a Sci -Fi ...didn't pan out too well in that script either...

 

[Lou629]

Just another day in DPRNJ...

This type of thing has happened to more than one LEO. While i can't cite specific cases, i know i've heard similar stories with a trained LEO shooting a kid with a toy because the end had been painted over or removed.
If the police can make a "mistake" like that, then i can't see them getting too upset with a civilian making the same error, especially not if he was in fear for his life. The really bad thing for the clerk in this case is that this is New Jersey, ( the democratic peoples' republic of ) so the powers that be will no doubt pull out all the stops to try to crucify the guy for the 'unregistered' handgun.
I would not want to be in this poor guys' shoes, because in this stalinist gulag, even if you use a legal gun in a SD situation, you are presumed guilty by the local police, press, politicians, & all the liberal weenies this state is full of, until you can prove otherwise.

 

[gunsmith]

wow! is this really NJ?

Charges have not been filed against the store employee who fired the weapon, said Trenton police spokesman Detective Sgt. Pedro Medina.

http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=16342645&BRD=1697&PAG=461&dept_id=44551&rfi=6
TRENTON -- A federal task force arrested the last member of a foursome that was involved in a grocery store robbery in which one of the gunmen was shot and killed by an employee, police said yesterday.

Advertisement

Members of the New York/New Jersey Regional Fugitive Task Force arrested David Colvin, 19, of Hamilton at 6 p.m. Sunday.

Authorities believe Colvin may have acted as a lookout during a robbery at La Nueva Grocery last Monday.

He was charged with robbery and weapons possession, police said.

Colvin, who was arrested near his Hamilton home, is the third teenager to be linked to the crime.

During the robbery attempt, one of his accomplices -- 15-year-old Daquan Donell Cullers -- was fatally shot by a male employee at the store.

Larry Donell Walton, 18, and a 14-year-old -- both of Trenton-- were arrested a day after the botched robbery. Both were charged with armed robbery and authorities allege the pair are part of the foursome who tried to rob La Nueva.

Walton is also charged with weapons possession.

The group allegedly ambushed an employee at the grocery store’s side exit around 9:54 p.m. March 13, authorities said. The employee was threatened and forced back inside.

Once inside the North Clinton Avenue bodega, Cullers approached the front counter with a handgun while two other suspects stayed near the rear of the store.

A male employee, who was behind the counter, pulled a handgun and fired one shot at Cullers, police said.

Cullers’ three accomplices, who were all masked during the robbery, fled the store.

Authorities said Cullers was pronounced dead at the scene in the city’s first fatal shooting of the year.

Charges have not been filed against the store employee who fired the weapon, said Trenton police spokesman Detective Sgt. Pedro Medina.

Police have not released the identity of that employee.

The foursome involved in the La Nueva Grocery robbery may be connected to several other recent robberies of area businesses, police said.

Authorities did not reveal what they believe ties Colvinto the robbery, but investigators announced they were searching for him last week.

Colvin was being held on $250,000 bail.

Police are asking anyone with information about the shooting to contact Detective Manuel Montez at (609) 989-4159 or to call the confidential tip line at 989-3663.

Any information can also be given anonymously to Crime Stoppers of Greater Trenton at (609) 278-8477. Tips that lead to arrests could result in a reward up to $1,000.

 

[beerslurpy]

if a perpetrator willingly has painted over or removed the orange tip of an airsoft/etc gun

*paints the tip of his AK orange and wades into battle* "I'm invincible, no one can shoot me!"

We have juries because they can usually weigh the facts and determine if the shooting was justified. Cut and dried formulas only complicate things and inevitably introduce injustice when an exception to the general rule crops up.

I think that generally speaking if a stranger holding a gun at you acts like it is a gun and tries to victimize you, obviously you should assume it is real unless it obviously isnt. Again, what is obvious? For the jury to decide.

 

[ugaarguy]

It is sad

Yes, this is sad. While this kid made a poor choice and sufferred the deserved consequences does not make it any less sad. No he should not have used the threat of deadly force to attempt the robbery. Yes the clerk quite reasonably felt his life was in danger and absolutely did the right thing by defending himself with the most effective means available. None of this changes the fact that a kid is dead.

"Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
- Ezekiel 33:11

 

[Robert Hairless]

These are still more situations in which the weak laws in other states encourage the importation of unregulated 15-year-old boys into countries like New Jersey, Massachusetts, and Canada. It's long past time to ban 15-year-olds in particular and teenagers in general.

 

[Hemicuda]

I have aq .22 caliber spring-piston air-rifle that shoots pellets faster (by velocity) than most .22 shorts... yes, a pellet gun can be very deadly... and the perp got what they deserved...

 

[jazurell]

+1
Not all 'pellet guns' have orange.
Not all pellet guns are less than deadly.
A .22 pellet at 1100fps can do damage.