Another Glass Question: Fixed vs. Variable

[John C]

Fellas;

What's the dollar/value differential between a fixed and variable (3-9x) rifle scopes?

What I'm asking, does in your opinion a $300 fixed power scope have the same quality glass and image as a $600 3-9x? Or perhaps is the value maybe $300 fixed versus $400 variable?

I'm just trying to figure out the equilibrium point. I think with what I want to do, I'd prefer a higher quality fixed scope versus a lower quality variable. My budget forces me into the $3-400 range.

-John

 

[MDHunter]

No Big Glass Difference.....

John,

Most of the brand names scopes have good quality glass, as long as you get a scope that has FULLY MULTI-COATED LENSES, you should be good to go. I believe that fully multi-coated means that the lenses are multicoated separately, giving the best clarity and light gathering (I hope I didn't botch the definition, but the point is you want fully multi-coated lenses).

Nikon, Bushnell, Weaver, Leupold (Vari-X II) all have quality variable and fixed power scopes in that price range. Go check a few out and see what looks best to you!

Michael

 

[John C]

Thanks, MDHunter.

I guess what I'm getting at is a comparison. My dilemna is that I haven't decided whether I want a fixed or variable scope. Like many things, it comes down to price. I haven't really worked it out yet, but if the difference is maybe $50 or so, then variable is probably worth it. If the difference is $300 between an equivalent quality fixed and variable, I'd probably go fixed.

The true answer, I know, is get the best for the purpose I intend, but the truth is I don't know yet. I'm the kind of guy that needs to get something first, mess around with it a while, figure out what I like and don't like, and then trade it in on something. The case now is that I want a quality piece of glass.

I only own two scopes now, a cheap 4x burris on the top of a 10/22 I got when I was 14 and Leupold 1-4x20 on the top of a .223 Contender barrel. I'm a pretty serious handgun shooter, but basically new to rifles.

Thanks again,

-John

 

[rbernie]

If price is the big factor - you'll likely find that a 3x9 will be the cheapest scope in any manufacturer's lineup. Not because it's cheaper to make than a 4x, but because they sell one hundred 3x9s for every 4x that they sell. Since they make fewer 4x scopes, the cost of setting up the production line and such is spread out over a smaller number of units.

 

[esldude]

I have several Nikon Monarch scopes. They all have had the same coating and glass quality. For reference, at www.swfa.com a 3-9x 40mm is $299. A 4x 40mm Monarch is $229 with a 6x 42mm is $239.

Now there are reasons for a fixed versus a variable choice. In this case with Nikon Monarchs the difference in price is not too great. The scopes are of very high quality. If you aren't sure of which power you might need, the 3-9x would cover most things other than varmint hunting or very long range pursuits or pure accuracy target games.

Other scopes I know to be of comparable optical quality are 2.5-10x 40mm Bushnell Elite 4200 (with very effective rainguard) for $349 at www.theopticzone.com or the Weaver Grand Slam 3-10x 40 mm for $249 at www.swfa.com in this case.

Monarchs, Elite 4200's and Grand Slams all have fully multi-coated optics with good glass, good mechanisms etc. As someone else mentioned, because of the popularity of 3-9x scopes you get sort of the most for your money in that power scope. The price versus a fixed scope is a pretty small differential, with modern scopes the internals are good enough you really aren't loosing anything versus fixed.

 

[LHB1]

John,
As a hunter, birdwatcher, and photographer, optics are a major hobby for me. I have always believed the fixed power scopes are sturdier than comparably priced variables simply because they have fewer moving parts inside. Have used both on my hunting and target rifles. These days I use Leupold 3-9 variables on my rifles, 3-5X for hunting and 9X for target shooting. I don't trust the quality of optics or construction on cheap variables. For that matter I believe in using top brand optics, i.e. Leupold scopes and Leica binoculars. Just my .02.

Good shooting and be safe.
LB

 

[1911user]

For hardcore use, a fixed is probably more sturdy than a variable. You'd probably be more happy with a good quality variable unless you plan to go to war with it. I just purchased one of these for $235 : Mueller 3-10x44 mil-dot recently. The $235 is a shipped sale price; no clue how long it will last. Normal price is $320. It's getting some good reviews (especially for the cost) from the long range (sniper) sites. I'd think it'd be a nice hunting scope and a good start for sniper/tactical type competition shooting.

 

[Harve Curry]

From my limited experience the cheaper scopes with variable power settings can change the point of impact. A 4-12 Simmons I have changes 1" from 4-12. I've been told better quality more expensive scopes won't do that.

I have other rifles with Weaver, Leopuld, Redfield, Burris but have not had the chance to check them out that way.

Is there a difference in how the scope reticle is secured from a variable power scope vs a fixed power??

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I only own two scopes now, a cheap 4x burris on the top of a 10/22

I have the same scope on an M82 Kimber -- it's a high quality scope, not a "cheap" one.

I like fixed power scopes, especially 4X for general hunting. I have more variables than fixed power because so few fixed power scopes are made these days. In some 50 years of hunting, I have used a variable at higher than minimum power only once -- shooting from a stand when I wanted to put a shot through a very small hole in the brush.

 

[Skoghund]

Have had a variable Zeiss on my Heym /Ruger for over 25 years and its never been off six power. Not worth buying a variable for hunting. Got a six power Schmitt & bender on a Ruger No 1 a lovely Scope. Have just bought a Merkel Combination weapon with a variable Helios 2.5-7x 32 scope on claw mounts. over 30 years old and the best scope of all. Buy a quaulity scope and quality mounts thats what counts. I have a friend in England who shoots with a fixed 4 power scope. He kills a lot of deer every year and i mean a lot of deer its never been a hindrance to him only haveing 4 power.

 

[Essex County]

I've long been of the opinion that a lot of rifles and shooters are overscoped. I own a number of rifles that are for specific purposes and I try to match scopes to them. Heavy barrel varmiters get a fixed 10X, rifles that are shot for fun wear a 6X, and game guns usually have 2 1/2 or 4x. As you can tell by now I'm a real fan of the durability and simplicity of fixed optics. I also have variables ranging from 1-3 to 6-24. I could get by without them. If I had only one gun it would be a .270 with either a 4 or 6 on it. Thank's for listening...........Essex

 

[Bwana John]

Never had a problem with the Leupold M8 4X scope. Even after belly flopping right onto it with my full bodyweight and a pack full of boned out deer meat.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

Never had a problem with the Leupold M8 4X scope. Even after belly flopping right onto it with my full bodyweight and a pack full of boned out deer meat.

In my opinion the Leupold M8 4X ranks with the Ruger Standard Model automatic, the M1911, or the Winchester Model 70. Once it was developed, there was no need to go any farther -- you can't improve perfection.

 

[browningguy]

To try to get to your question on dollar value, I think that's a tough one. Usually fixed power scopes aren't much cheaper, simply because they don't sell as many of them.

I use both, however my primary big game rifle is a custom Mauser in 275 Rigby (7 x 57 Mauser for ordinary folk), and it wears a 6x42 fixed scope. The advantages I see in fixed scopes (assuming equal quality glass and coatings) are less to go wrong, usually slightly lighter weight, better to look through. An equal quality variable will never have quite as good an image due to the additional air to glass interfaces. Now in high end scopes most of can't see good enough to tell the difference under field conditions but it is so none the less.

 

[rdkngrydr]

Fixed vs Variable

What rifle are you planning on putting the scope on? What kind of shooting do you do? There is a lot more to this than what costs more. If it's a .30-30 Marlin lever gun a fixed 21/2 or 4X would be fine. If it's a varmit/bench rest gun it could use a bigger scope. In any case, you get what you pay for. Buy the best scope you can afford.

 

[JohnKSa]

All else being equal, a fixed power scope will have fewer components and fewer lenses.

That gives it, in theory, better image & light transmission properties, better reliability, lower weight, and more durability.

In practice, the differences may not be significant.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

In my opinion things like light transmission and clarity are over rated in scopes. Yes, they should be clear and free of flaws, but if you want to spend hours looking through an optical instrument, you use good binoculars. A scope is used for only a few minutes (if that) on a hunt.

The important thing is reliability. A good fixed power is hard to beat for reliability.

 

[bogie]

For what kinda rifle? That's the first question.

Personally, for a "hunting" rifle, for normal distances (under 200 yards) for deer-sized game, I'd just get on ebay, and hunt down an old Weaver K4.

 

[USSR]

John C,

Hard to give scope advice to a guy who doesn't know it's intended use.

Don

 

[esldude]

Seemed reasonable to me. Guy is comparing 3-9x with fixed in a similar range. Give him the benefit of the doubt he knows what approximate power he needs. Could be deer, could be elk, or many things. His basic question was relative quality vs. price I think. He gave enough info to give some useful answers to the question.

 

[John C]

Thanks, fellas, for all the input.

ESL dude nailed it on the head; I'm just trying to get an approximate dollar value (or multiple) in the difference between a fixed and variable scope of the same (preferably high) quality.

So maybe it would be like this: A Leupold VX-III 3x9-40 is $300; a comparable Leupold fixed 4x40 of the same quality of glass (fully multicoated and color matched) is $200. Therefore, a variable scope of the same quality as a fixed scope is $100 more. Or, perhaps 1.5 times the cost of a fixed, if we were looking at serious high dollar scopes.

However, I'm basically an accuracy guy on somewhat of a budget. I shoot bullseye pistol, and am looking to experiment with riflery. I'm not much of a hunter, though my wife's family has 840 acres of crested wheat grass on the north side of the Great Salt Lake. Unfortunately, the desert partridge that are all over the place are protected (and the topic of another forum) but apparently there are a bunch of coyote and antelope out there. I just need a country boy to show me how to call coyote and/or successfully hunt antelope.

My current plan is to buy a heavy barrel .308 Savage 110 and scope it with a reasonably high quality piece of glass. I'm looking right now at a Nikon Monarch 3-9x40. It appears to be similar quality to a Leupold VX-III (fully multi-coated, color matched) for a competitive price. I fully understand the "get what you pay for" idea. It appears that the Nikon will be adequate for futzing around with a Savage to see if I can make all the holes touch at 100 yards through handloading.

-John

 

[artherd]

Even US Optics makes a fixed 10x SN-3. There are benefits (less weight, somewhat better optical clarity than an equivlent-set variable, and fewer moving parts.)

That said, all my scopes are variable, eg my 5.5-22x nightforce is capable of engaging any threat from 100yds to over 2000yds. You just can't pack that kind of versatality into a fixed power optic, period.

 

[USSR]

John,

First off, Leupold does not make a VX-III 3x9-40. VX-II scopes are 3-9x40, and they are extremely outdated. Yes, of course, you can buy a comparable quality fixed power scope for less than a variable power scope, but the difference in price is not a constant. In your last post, you alluded to the fact that you will probably be using it for hunting coyotes and antelope. For hunting purposes you would be better served by a variable power scope. Aside from the brightness and clarity that most guys look at, you should also take two other things in consideration when looking for a scope: the amount of W&E adjustment, and the repeatability of adjustments. The amount of elevation adjustment will determine just how far you can adjust your scope for long range shots and your can find this by looking at the scope's specs. Since you plan on using it on a .308, which is not a particularly flat shooting cartridge, the amount of elevation adjustment is very important. The repeatability of your scope is something that you can only determine once you have bought the scope, mounted it, and shot your rifle using it. In the price range you are considering, both Sightron and Weaver make scopes that are particularly noted for their repeatability of W&E adjustment. Hope that helps.

Don

 

[texagun]

VX-II scopes are 3-9x40, and they are extremely outdated. Don

Would you care to elaborate or substantiate that statement? I think the VX-II is still one of the best bargains around in a variable scope.

 

[USSR]

Would you care to elaborate or substantiate that statement? I think the VX-II is still one of the best bargains around in a variable scope.

Sure. The VX-III (formerly Vari-X III) model dates back to the early 70's, making Leupold's newest model atleast 30 years old. The VX-II (formerly Vari-X II) is probably 50 years old technology. There have been alot of improvements in those 50 years, and many scopes made by other manufacturers in the same price range reflect these changes. Lest you think I am a Leupie basher, let me tell you here and now, I am not. I have several Vari-X III Leupold's and value them highly. However, all I am saying is, for the amount of money you will be paying for a dated VX-II scope, there are better options available. Just MHO.

Don