Another Glock clone is out, which one is the best?

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beagler said:
So true. I have handled Glocks and they were ok. My buddy has a Dagger, and it is much nicer to handle.
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I have a SAR 9 (full size) that is basically an enhanced Glock upper on a VP9 lower, put the small side grips and back strap on it, fit's me like a glove. The other so called clone (by some) is my Taurus G2c, other than a less than stellar trigger it's a trooper and again fits my hand like a glove. Buds currently has the Tisas PX-9 on sale for $209 (cash price), it's also a full size duty gun but Tisas makes quality firearms at budget prices. Nice grip on it also.

Tisas PX-9:

PX-9DBLK-2.jpg

SAR 9:

713304m5_ts.jpg

They both have a whole line including concealed carry models. They are Turkish made if that's a problem.
 
Ok , here is my answer to Glock clones : NO !!!!! Glock has gotten things right with their design. These other places cashing in on Glocks design are just not worth it in my opinion. It's worth paying $100 more and getting the real deal. You can not beat Glock's customer service. There are not many places where you can just roll up on the factory and get your older Glock updated for free while you wait ?
 
kje54 said:
I have a SAR 9 (full size) that is basically an enhanced Glock upper on a VP9 lower, put the small side grips and back strap on it, fit's me like a glove. The other so called clone (by some) is my Taurus G2c, other than a less than stellar trigger it's a trooper and again fits my hand like a glove. Buds currently has the Tisas PX-9 on sale for $209 (cash price), it's also a full size duty gun but Tisas makes quality firearms at budget prices. Nice grip on it also.

Tisas PX-9:

View attachment 1111193

SAR 9:

View attachment 1111194

They both have a whole line including concealed carry models. They are Turkish made if that's a problem.
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Turkish stuff is seductive no doubt. My big preference is to support American manufacturers but thats my thing and I dont expect everyone to understand it...thats fine.

The biggest hangup out side of that is having a good source for parts. Outside the Canik there doesnt seem to be a whole lot available (parts wise) for most of the Turkish stuff. The SAR9 looks good... testing done sounds legit. There just doesnt seem to be anywhere that offers parts that I can find. Turkey also seems to have the Taurus thing going on where they bring pistols out and then discontinue them fairly quickly which causes even more parts supply problems.

I have kind of a 10% rule for purchasing firearms... 90% goes to USA manufacturing and 10% I let myself buy foreign. When I eventually do buy a Turk it will most likely be the Canik (TP9DA most likely) because its shown to have staying power, has some contracts and wont be discontinued, and parts are available for purchase to have spares on hand. It really stinks to have to struggle to find an extractor, striker, whatever spring etc. etc.

PSA made a REALLY good move offering spare parts like they have for the Daggers. Not difficult at all to get a few spares. They dont rape you on the cost either.
 
What gun is more copied than a Glock, ok CZ, but really. Go to the original.Even if you get a beat up one, Glock will go over it and replace all the stuff.Then you can know it will last.
 
tercel89 said:
Ok , here is my answer to Glock clones : NO !!!!! Glock has gotten things right with their design. These other places cashing in on Glocks design are just not worth it in my opinion. It's worth paying $100 more and getting the real deal. You can not beat Glock's customer service. There are not many places where you can just roll up on the factory and get your older Glock updated for free while you wait ?
Click to expand...

Hey now... People been cashing in on American Designs forever. Seems like we are due for some payback these days. I applaud all these new smaller manufacturers giving us excellent Glock clones at more realistic prices. Glocks gotten rich of the backs of US/foreign contracts as well as the everyday tax payer. They will be just fine. Everyone in this country thats ever payed a tax has likely given money to Glock wether they wanted to or not.
 
starling said:
Turkish stuff is seductive no doubt. My big preference is to support American manufacturers but thats my thing and I dont expect everyone to understand it...thats fine.

The biggest hangup out side of that is having a good source for parts. Outside the Canik there doesnt seem to be a whole lot available (parts wise) for most of the Turkish stuff. The SAR9 looks good... testing done sounds legit. There just doesnt seem to be anywhere that offers parts that I can find. Turkey also seems to have the Taurus thing going on where they bring pistols out and then discontinue them fairly quickly which causes even more parts supply problems.

I have kind of a 10% rule for purchasing firearms... 90% goes to USA manufacturing and 10% I let myself buy foreign. When I eventually do buy a Turk it will most likely be the Canik (TP9DA most likely) because its shown to have staying power, has some contracts and wont be discontinued, and parts are available for purchase to have spares on hand. It really stinks to have to struggle to find an extractor, striker, whatever spring etc. etc.

PSA made a REALLY good move offering spare parts like they have for the Daggers. Not difficult at all to get a few spares. They dont rape you on the cost either.
Click to expand...
I didn't think about parts availability, duh....... I know SDS has Tisas 1911 OEM parts but not for the others that I can find. Yup Canick is well established here and make excellent firearms.
 
starling said:
Hey now... People been cashing in on American Designs forever. Seems like we are due for some payback these days. I applaud all these new smaller manufacturers giving us excellent Glock clones at more realistic prices. Glocks gotten rich of the backs of US/foreign contracts as well as the everyday tax payer. They will be just fine. Everyone in this country thats ever payed a tax has likely given money to Glock wether they wanted to or not.
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And S&W,Ruger,Sig,SA,Walther, where do I stop.
 
If I didn't know any better, I would say that Polymer 80 is using the old Strike 80 frames with a couple of changes made for the SCT19 and Anderson KIGER 9C frames. They sure look a lot like the discontinued Strike Industries Strike 80 frame. And yes Polymer 80 made the Strike 80 frames for Strike Industries.

Strike 80

Strike 80.jpg

Anderson KIGER 9C

KIGER 9.jpg

SCT19

SCT19 1.jpg

NOTE; the Strike 80 has a Strike Industries magwell installed.
 
jonb32248 said:
And S&W,Ruger,Sig,SA,Walther, where do I stop.
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S&W and Ruger are American Manufacturers. These foreign based compnies have zero loyalty to American Firearm enthusiests. They will sell us out on a dime for a major military contract.
 
12Bravo20 said:
If I didn't know any better, I would say that Polymer 80 is using the old Strike 80 frames with a couple of changes made for the SCT19 and Anderson KIGER 9C frames. They sure look a lot like the discontinued Strike Industries Strike 80 frame. And yes Polymer 80 made the Strike 80 frames for Strike Industries.

Strike 80

View attachment 1111197

Anderson KIGER 9C

View attachment 1111198

SCT19

View attachment 1111199

NOTE; the Strike 80 has a Strike Industries magwell installed.
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Little bit different but not much. Probably useing the same molding company or bought the tooling. I know FMK design and makes their own stuff.
 
12Bravo20 said:
Which would be Polymer 80. Polymer 80 owned the molds and produced the frames for Strike Industries. There was a falling out between Polymer 80 and Strike Industries in late 2020 or early 2021 and the Strike 80 frame was discontinued.
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Sounds like you know your stuff in all aspects of Glock clones and building. I will keep that in mind for future reference if you dont mind. Been trying to figure out a couple simple things the last few months with no real luck. Just "Who makes this?" type questions. So much aftermarket Glock stuff out there now I get a little lost.
 
I'll be glad to help if I can.

I built enough of them over the years plus I am a retired machinist and gun smith. I was an active member for a couple of years on the old Marine Gun Builder forum that was all about building 80% firearms.
 
I really like the Poly 80s complete guns. Traded into one that had the best feel and trigger on any 19 size pistol I ever shot. Put my Shadow Systems to shame!

Shot the PSA Dagger and it’s a nice pistol. But I’m leaning towards the RIA pistol as a possible purchase.

Lefty
 
I just read up on the STK100 the armscor version. There is some points that vary where it may not be compatible with Glock parts but the fixed the Gaston angle issue and made a two piece aluminum lower. Now that seems like perfection to me!
 
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Blkhrt13 said:
I just read up on the STK100 the armscor version. There is some points that vary where it may not be compatible with Glock parts but the fixed the Gaston angle issue and made a two piece aluminum lower. Now that seems like perfection to me!
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Hard to say. Its a pretty radical desigh change thats for sure going 2 piece like that. Glocks have flex built into the design a bit. Put that in with an aluminum two piece clam design seems like there would be quite a bit of stress on the screws holding things together. Particularly any screws in the locking block area. Thats where Something like a Glock frame gets the most abuse. Even a slide buffer wont cusion that. I have not had my hands on a RIA and disected one though. Its interesting. Long terms/extensive testing will say a lot. Hopefully they have the clamshell screws dialed in. Not to hard but not to soft either.

Then again it may not even matter on a 9mm. something like a 357sig or 40S&W could be a whole different thing.
 
starling said:
Hard to say. Its a pretty radical desigh change thats for sure going 2 piece like that. Glocks have flex built into the design a bit. Put that in with an aluminum two piece clam design seems like there would be quite a bit of stress on the screws holding things together. Particularly any screws in the locking block area. Thats where Something like a Glock frame gets the most abuse. Even a slide buffer wont cusion that. I have not had my hands on a RIA and disected one though. Its interesting. Long terms/extensive testing will say a lot. Hopefully they have the clamshell screws dialed in. Not to hard but not to soft either.

Then again it may not even matter on a 9mm. something like a 357sig or 40S&W could be a whole different thing.
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You bring up some good points I hadn’t thought of. I recall seeing a thread when I googled about torture testing the dagger it was being passed between different YouTubers to test so they could run the round count up. In this economy that’s the way to see what happens. If I ever win the lottery I would buy them all up and a truck load of ammo and see how the knock offs hold up compared to the original. It’s hard to argue Glock durability. Most guns will likely be bought and stashed or carried but never run to death. I wish some range owner would do the experiment.
 
Blkhrt13 said:
You bring up some good points I hadn’t thought of. I recall seeing a thread when I googled about torture testing the dagger it was being passed between different YouTubers to test so they could run the round count up. In this economy that’s the way to see what happens. If I ever win the lottery I would buy them all up and a truck load of ammo and see how the knock offs hold up compared to the original. It’s hard to argue Glock durability. Most guns will likely be bought and stashed or carried but never run to death. I wish some range owner would do the experiment.
Click to expand...

People talk about perfection all the time but even Glock has had to change, tweek, fix issues through the years. Dagger has had some teething issues like any other firearm. Suprised there have not been more honestly for a newer firearms manufacturer. I know of the mag dropping, walking pins, and a slightly redesigned trigger along with curing some issues with tolerance stacking on the barrel lock.

Pretty normal stuff for mass produced pistols all things considered. Daggers (nor glocks) are not hand fitted to perfection. Bad batches of parts also will happen with anyone. Beretta had a bad run of soft steel on the slides for the 92 at one point. Sig Sauer has had all sorts of issues even with the legacy models through the years that were fixed. Ruger, S&W..... it happens to everyone at some point and will happen again. Even extensive testing such as military trials doesnt always catch it. The big thing is that they get fixed and the issues get resolved.

Im pretty good at spotting weak areas and potential failure points on firearms but even then I still get supised sometimes. Thats why no matter what firearm you choose its always important to become dilligent in terms of cleaning and inspection routines IMO. A lot of times after an initial break in or test fire a good inspection can catch ill fitted or out of spec parts and a little fitting will cure things and prevent the firearm from an eventual,more serious problem. The rougher a firearm is put together... the more work you might have to do.

For the Dagger... I kind of wish they would have done a couple things different. Making it run on Beretta 92 Magazines would have been nice (Glock magazines are not my favorite design AT ALL). The Trigger... I like what they did with the hinged trigger as those dingus triggers are not my favorite. Also would have been nice if they made drop in triggers for SA/DA and true DAO (FMK style) function. Those pattents are likely still in effect though from other designers. Same goes for aftermarket groups that have developed manual safety systems and striker control devices for Glocks. PSAs goal was to make it as close to the Glock 19 as possible though along with some subtle and popular changes for the American Market... and that they have done. So Kudos to PSA for that and Kudos again for not overcharging consumers.... And Kudos yet again for making it easy and affordable to purchase spare parts.

PSA did everything right with the dagger IMO. We will see where it goes from here. If I was at PSA I would be contacting Mecgar and designing an affordable all steel magazine for the Daggers that is compatable with exhisting Glock spec frames.. There are some high end ones out there already but they run around $100+ each. Mecgar or PSA would make a killing if they came out with an all steel Glock 17/19 magazine for around $30.
 
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starling said:
People talk about perfection all the time but even Glock has had to change, tweek, fix issues through the years. Dagger has had some teething issues like any other firearm. Suprised there have not been more honestly for a newer firearms manufacturer. I know of the mag dropping, walking pins, and a slightly redesigned trigger along with curing some issues with tolerance stacking on the barrel lock.

Pretty normal stuff for mass produced pistols all things considered. Daggers (nor glocks) are not hand fitted to perfection. Bad batches of parts also will happen with anyone. Beretta had a bad run of soft steel on the slides for the 92 at one point. Sig Sauer has had all sorts of issues even with the legacy models through the years that were fixed. Ruger, S&W..... it happens to everyone at some point and will happen again. Even extensive testing such as military trials doesnt always catch it. The big thing is that they get fixed and the issues get resolved.

Im pretty good at spotting weak areas and potential failure points on firearms but even then I still get supised sometimes. Thats why no matter what firearm you choose its always important to become dilligent in terms of cleaning and inspection routines IMO. A lot of times after an initial break in or test fire a good inspection can catch ill fitted or out of spec parts and a little fitting will cure things and prevent the firearm from an eventual,more serious problem. The rougher a firearm is put together... the more work you might have to do.

For the Dagger... I kind of wish they would have done a couple things different. Making it run on Beretta 92 Magazines would have been nice (Glock magazines are not my favorite design AT ALL). The Trigger... I like what they did with the hinged trigger as those dingus triggers are not my favorite. Also would have been nice if they made drop in triggers for SA/DA and true DAO (FMK style) function. Those pattents are likely still in effect though from other designers. Same goes for aftermarket groups that have developed manual safety systems and striker control devices for Glocks. PSAs goal was to make it as close to the Glock 19 as possible though along with some subtle and popular changes for the American Market... and that they have done. So Kudos to PSA for that and Kudos again for not overcharging consumers.... And Kudos yet again for making it easy and affordable to purchase spare parts.

PSA did everything right with the dagger IMO. We will see where it goes from here. If I was at PSA I would be contacting Mecgar and designing an affordable all steel magazine for the Daggers that is compatable with exhisting Glock spec frames.. There are some high end ones out there already but they run around $100+ each. Mecgar or PSA would make a killing if they came out with an all steel 17/19 magazine for around $30.
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It has not been released but the Dagger I want to see is the Micro. I don't think it will be as close of a clone of the G-48 as the original Dagger is of the Gen. 3 G-19 due to having to work around patents but I am interested in that size. Also interesting is the fact PSA says they have develped a 15 round G-48 magazine that would work in a Glock 48. If/when they release it if those magazines work well I believe PSA will make a killing on them.
 
Mike J said:
It has not been released but the Dagger I want to see is the Micro. I don't think it will be as close of a clone of the G-48 as the original Dagger is of the Gen. 3 G-19 due to having to work around patents but I am interested in that size. Also interesting is the fact PSA says they have develped a 15 round G-48 magazine that would work in a Glock 48. If/when they release it if those magazines work well I believe PSA will make a killing on them.
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I suspect they are looking at anything and everything they can that has an expired patent and offeres a potential market. No telling what we might see that has been offered before. Savage looks to have the Honor guard design bought (excellent)and bugs worked out so I dont see that. The 5.7 design PSA released suprised me a bit because its such a small market.

Would be a riot if they put out a modern Tec9/AB10 for $200-$250 or so. Those are very inexpensive to manufacturer and with modern methods would be easy. With todays manufacturing and quality polymers they would be a lot better. Tec9 is actually a good design (as were other intratecs) that fell short on execution and materials (polymer was still pretty new). Since all the 3d printed stuff started happening its remained a favorite for builders snatching up parts for home made builds. The uppers and small parts alone sell for rediculous prices these days.

So many inexpensive inexpensive Micros out there these days I wouldnt be if PSA tried it but things are getting saturated quickly. My hope with them is once they have a solid foothold (almost there) they go the Keltec type route a little and start creating or bringing back new products that open the market up more.

Easiest thing they could do right now to really shake things up would be to chamber the 5.7 pistol in 7.62x25mm Tokarev. Of course there is a point where a small manufacturer simply cant meet demand due to resources and manufacturing capabilities. Then keeping the quality high also becomes a factor. So its a very careful ballancing act. Its real easy to get greedy and dig your own grave in a rush to bring out new products. I am seeing even the big boy manufacturers struggling with that simple concept. Be better if everyone would SLOW DOWN and properly test and vet their products better but the new hyper fast/ low standard firearms market is pretty seductive. Its hard to have it both ways.

I find it hillarious that consumers expect things yesterday and then gripe that every bug has been worked out to perfection straight out of the box..... then go on a mission to trash the company online. Its like complaining that you had a crappy or incomplete meal from McDonalds. Almost all uber reliable designs are fairly old and have had many tweeks thoughout that time.
 
I have been waiting to see when PSA will release their Micro Dagger and 15 round magazines. PSA supposedly also has a 22lr Dagger in the works. I'll be interested in the 22LR Dagger for sure.
 
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