Another point regarding my decision on .308 or 30-06.

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onewithgun

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I have been viewing ballistics data and have noticed a few things.

They say the .308 shoots flatter and is more accurate.

Every chart I've seen shows that the 30-06 caries more energy, more velocity and has LESS drop than a .308 at all ranges...

So how the hell can people claim that the .308 is the more accurate cartridge when all ballistics charts show data that points to the '06 being more accurate/better.

I'm going with the 30-06 for those reasons and the availability of the ammo in shtf situations.

I need advice on purchasing a firearm and all of your guys help would be appreciated.

Here are my criteria for the weapon.

I need a 30-06, that's bolt-action, has a 5 round capacity magazine, and a 26" barrel. Stainless steel would also be a huge bonus. Any recommendations would be helpful too. Oh and also It needs low profile iron sights. (just incase I have to take something out at less than 100 yds.)

Thanks.
 
I have been viewing ballistics data and have noticed a few things.

They say the .308 shoots flatter and is more accurate.

Every chart I've seen shows that the 30-06 caries more energy, more velocity and has LESS drop than a .308 at all ranges...

So how the hell can people claim that the .308 is the more accurate cartridge when all ballistics charts show data that points to the '06 being more accurate/better.

I'm going with the 30-06 for those reasons and the availability of the ammo in shtf situations.

I need advice on purchasing a firearm and all of your guys help would be appreciated.

Here are my criteria for the weapon.

I need a 30-06, that's bolt-action, has a 5 round capacity magazine, and a 26" barrel. Stainless steel would also be a huge bonus. Any recommendations would be helpful too. Oh and also It needs low profile iron sights. (just incase I have to take something out at less than 100 yds.)
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onewithgun,

You're confusing the amount of drop (exterior ballistics) with accuracy. Ballistics tables tell you nothing about accuracy. Good luck on your search for the .30-06 that matches your criteria. That's the problem nowdays with the .30-06; no match rifles being made for it. It's a great cartridge for a LR tactical rifle, but it's a custom build rifle and handloading proposition.

Don
 
You are right in saying that the 30-06 carries more energy with the same bullet and it it flatter shooting, but that doesn't make it more accurate.
 
Drop can easily be calculated and allowed for with .308. Simply knowing how much drop the bullet will have in any caliber does not effect the inherent accuracy of that particular round. Accuracy generally has more to do with the quality of the load and the gun that your bullet is coming from,as well as the bullet design itself.

eta:USSR,ya beat me to the punch.:)
 
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There has been many an argument regarding inherent accuracy. As the others have said, the 30-06 is definitely the more powerful cartridge by a fairly small margin, but it has been said that the 308 is inherently more accurate. If it is, the only way you would ever know it is if you were a hard-core benchrest shooter, measuring your groups in thousands of an inch.

I am a fan of the old '06 myself, though I also have a 308 that I like as well. In reality, it's not real hard to find a good used '06 hunting rifle that will shoot plenty good enough, without shelling out the dough for a high dollar sniper set-up. I found a nice old Ted Williams (store brand model 70 Winchester) in 30-06 a couple years ago, used, for $225, put a $65 scope on it, and it will consistently shoot under 1 1/4" at 100yds. The best I shot with it was 1 1/2" 5 shot group at 200 yards.

Used hunting rifles are a great value if you know what to look for, and what to avoid. As to your specific criteria, sorry I'm not more help there.
 
I'm going with the 30-06 for those reasons and the availability of the ammo in shtf situations.
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I don't see the logic in that. .308 will be more available in SHTF scenario.
 
Thanks guys. I'll be searching gun broker for the '06 that I have in mind.
I'm sure there's one out there!
 
I need a 30-06, that's bolt-action, has a 5 round capacity magazine, and a 26" barrel. Stainless steel would also be a huge bonus. Any recommendations would be helpful too. Oh and also It needs low profile iron sights. (just incase I have to take something out at less than 100 yds.)
Click to expand...

That calls for a nice custom rifle, the only medium calibers you will find stock with a 26" barrel are (Savages) .243, .308, and some manufacturers offer a 300 Win Mag with a 26". And no one puts iron sights on those. I've just bought a Savage FV in .243 with a heavy 26" barrel, and am ordering barrels in .260 and .308 (for different disciplines) in 28". Depending on what you are doing a .243 shooting 95 gr. + VLD's has less wind drift and drop than either of the 30's, and a lot less recoil.

I am a huge fan of 30's though, I hunt and shoot with a .308, 30-06 (2), and a .300 Win Mag. That little extra the 06 has allows it to push heavier bullets that stay supersonic a little longer than a .308, but in Army trials back in the day the .308 showed slightly smaller groups (at 600 yards) with the .308.
 
One;

Omitting the iron sights & 26" barrel, it would seem one of the current crop of Tikka's would come closest to meeting your stated needs. Five round magazines are available, stainless is easy, accuracy is considered to be quite good, price is moderate, but the barrel will be shorter and bare.

900F
 
308 Match ammunition is far more available and far cheaper than 30-06 mathc ammunition, but that's about it really. Semiautomatics in 30-06 aren't that common other than the Garand, which would not be a bad SHTF rifle were you to stock plenty of Garand ammunition. Other than that, there's really not that much difference between the round ballistically. If you prefer the 30-06, go with it because you like it, or the firearms available in that caliber.
 
Just my 2 cents...

If you're nostalgic and want to launch 180gr pills or bigger, the 30-06 is definitely the way to go.

If you're nostalgic and only want to launch 170gr and below, the .308 cannot be beat. Every single one of my .308s are more accurate, over a range of factory ammo, than any of my thutty-oughts. I am a confessed lover of the .308.

If you're not nostalgic, and are a handloader, the 300WSM holds a lot of appeal to me. It's loadable from a light .308 to a heavy 300Win Mag.

But in terms of average accuracy, the .308 sits on top of the pile. See John Barsness' latest article on "Inherent Accuracy" in the latest Handloader Magazine. He talks to most of the major custom rifle makers (NULA, Sisk, Echols, etc.), and finds there's general concensus that the .308 has "something" that makes it more consistent and repeatable.

With 150gr bullets, there is no difference between the .308 and 30-06.

Rich
 
The '06 will do everything the .308 can a little better, especially if you reload.
BUT for match ammo, the .308 is more availible if you dont reload, and some say it has a "bit" more accuracy, but nothing youd notice even in most match rifles.
Honestly the difference is not enought to worry about.
 
Depending on how concerned you are about SHTF you may want to reconsider the 06'. If you are a diehard believer that it will come one day, get the .308. As lamazza says it will be more readily available. Personally I have no use for an 06'.
 
The big issue is the availability of precision rifles in 30-06. As noted, it's a custom proposition. There are plenty of highly accurate factory rifles for the 308, in every price range. Take a look at the Remington LTR, anf FN PBR and SPR rifles for starters.

The Tikka tactical is light and accurate, but there not much in the way of after-market support, you need special rings and magazines are plastic and expensive.
 
You want accuracy? Go talk to the benchrest guys. You want SHTF? Get a Garand.

But mentioning SHTF and "accuracy" at the same time is... misguided, maybe? Benchrest guys might get 0.0something MOA groups, but those guns will be completely useless in an SHTF scenario. IMO of course :)
 
Koos, you said it better than I did. A target rifle and a SHTF rifle are, if not mutually exclusive, then pretty close to being so.
 
Quote:
I don't see the logic in that. .308 will be more available in SHTF scenario.
Click to expand...

30-06 will probably be more available if you're travelling and the suitcase with your ammo gets lost.

Ammo availability during SHTF? Probably neither will be available. If you don't have any, you're probably out of luck.

Ty
 
Perhaps academically amusing, but not very many people can make use of the PRACTICAL difference between the two calibers from FIELD positions.

The only PRACTICAL advantage of the 06 is the ability to use 220 grain bullets. Not much need for that, but if you do need it that might be a consideration.

26” barrel? For field use a 20 does well, a 22 is good and 24 is a compromise if you must. I think you’ll find the shorter barrel lengths much more field friendly.

Finn Aagaard did a good article either in Rifle or The American Rifleman some years ago where he cut a 30/06 barrel down an inch at a time until he got down to 18”. Interesting reading. You may want to track down a copy and read it before making a decision.
 
If you are genuinely concerned about ammo availability in a crisis,stock up now. Thanks to the Internet,you can find whatever you want in just about any caliber and have it at your door in less than a week.
 
With factory ammo the difference between an 06 and a 308 amounts to a squirt of piss in a river, pardon my french, lol. As for ammo availability concerns for shtf, the 06 is one of the most popular centerfires ever, but the 308 is a nato service cartridge used all over the world and by us. So its always going to be made and can be scavenged from troops. Its also a fairly popular civilian sporting round in its own right. Tough choice you have there, but I wouldnt let ballistics influence it.
 
And, since realistically SHTF and getting ammo from soldiers isn't ever going to happen, this is really just a fun exercise. In the end, the soldiers will either disarm you (New Orleans Katrina) or shoot at you. In any case, the point which the current availability of civilian hunting ammo dries up and is not available at any price will never occur. Even if it does, scrounging FMJ from the military won't happen, and even if it did happen, it would be very undesirable for hunting. Anyway, the military wouldn't likely share ammo with civilians, who they would view as in the way at best. It will never get that bad.

Ash

Ash
 
if i did not have a 30-06 i would get a 300 win or wby. 7.62x39 will be far better for shtf,although if the s does htf firearm and ammo availability should improve after a couple of days.
 
For shooting it out with the military, you probably will find a 12 ga and a piece of string around your big toe will allow you to get the barrel in proper alignment more easily that any of the popular bolt action rifles. Accuracy is not a problem. Sights are not needed. What are you thinking? We live in the ONLY NUCLEAR ARMED country to have ever used it offensively, twice! Do you really think you'll see the sun set if you start shooting AT the military?

Really, turn the TV off and go outside for a while.
 
Who said anything about shooting it out with the military?

What's your deal?

Did it ever occur to you that there are people who try to foresee all possible outcomes?
 
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