Another Victim of the War on Drugs

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Mr_Rogers

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Firearms related - a gun purchase sting was involved - set up by the police.


http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5450550&page=1


Botched Sting: Killed With Gun She Was Supposed to Buy
Alone With No Training, a Young Woman Dies Working as Police Informant
By BRIAN ROSS and VIC WALTER
July 25, 2008

No training. A botched drug sting. A dead 23-year-old college graduate.
Hoffman
Rachel Hoffman's photo as it appears on a Tallahassee police department Intelligence report.
(Courtesy Tallahassee Police Department)

But authorities in Tallahassee, Fla., have yet to take any action against the police responsible for an undercover operation that led to the death of Rachel Hoffman, a recent graduate of Florida State University.

Police Chief Dennis Jones, interviewed for tonight's 20/20 broadcast, says he does not accept that his department is in any way responsible for the death of the young woman.

"Do we feel responsible? We're responsible for the safety of this community," Jones said, labeling Hoffman a "criminal" because she was caught twice with a baggie of marijuana.

"People we use as confidential informants are people that are familiar with the drug trade," the police chief said.

In the case of Hoffman, her friends say she refused to inform on friends who smoked grass.

Instead, say the friends, police pushed Hoffman to work undercover against two men considered much bigger in the drug scene, and to try to buy a gun. A transaction involving a gun can bring much more serious charges.

Former FBI agent Brad Garrett, an ABC News consultant, says it made no sense to use an inexperienced person like Rachel for a gun deal.

"You have her make the phone call, you have the bad guys come into the picture and you never have her go to them," said Garrett, a veteran of scores of such undercover deals.

"You arrest them in the park and she's never exposed to the gun or the dope," said Garrett.

In the Hoffman case, police sent her out alone, with only one or two officers trailing her.

The chief concedes she had not received any training as a confidential informant, or CI, before the dangerous mission.

"As far as the training she receives, as far as training for, as a CI, we don't provide training for CIs," Jones told 20/20.

After the suspects twice changed the location of the meeting place, police say they lost contact with the young woman.

Both her cell phone and her hidden microphone were apparently out of range, police say.

It's beyond my imagination how the police lost them," said Garrett. "It's clear no one followed her, and once they lost her she was just on her own."

Chief Jones confirmed his men were not trailing her and did not have sight of her.

"My understanding is that there was not eyes on at that point," Jones said.

Garrett, who reviewed the operation for 20/20, said police should have aborted the sting once the location was changed, even if it blew the deal.

"Who cares if it blows the deal? It's all about safety. It's just a drug deal, that's all it is. There'll be one tomorrow," said Garrett.

Hoffman's body was not found until two days later, with multiple gun shot wounds traced to the gun she was supposed to have bought.

The Florida attorney general's office says it is reviewing the handling of the case by the Tallahassee Police Department.

Jones says his department is continuing its own internal investigation, but at this point he sees no reason to take any disciplinary action against any of his officers.
 
Looks to me like only an indirectly "gun - related" subject, and much more of an issue which serves to criticize police work. Not my cup of tea really. The world isn't perfect anyway. Nearly everyone is entitled to claim "victim" status.

;)
 
Totally insane on the cops' part... Total irresponsibilty that lies directly on their shoulders.
Unfortunately, I see no criminal charges stemming from this. But I reckon there will be an extremely costly civil suit on behalf of this girl's survivors.

The "War" on drugs has been a total failure from day one (30 years ago). This is just another useless death...useless!
 
All i can say is that I hope this ends up with firings and/or prison time for everyone involved. I think manslaughter or perhaps negligent homicide would be about right for those who set up the sting and first degree murder for the thugs that actually pulled the trigger.
 
The thread is barely gun-related. If it goes negative, or turns into a public beat-down on police, it will go away quickly. Keep it neutral, and keep it gun related...if possible.

The Florida attorney general's office says it is reviewing the handling of the case by the Tallahassee Police Department.

Jones says his department is continuing its own internal investigation, but at this point he sees no reason to take any disciplinary action against any of his officers.
:scrutiny:

Wow. Seems as though the local department is out-of-touch. It also seems that the Florida attorney general is not out-of-touch. Let the legal system run its course, and justice will be served. The wheels of justice may turn slowly, but the operative word is that they do turn.

Now, for the gun-related aspect, were the matter drugs alone, I would be less concerned about an inexperienced participant. However, the instant that a firearm purchase comes into play, all participants should be trained. <<Think it's going to be a real challenge to keep this gun-related>>.

JMHO.
 
Why where the police sending an armed, untrained civilian in to buy drugs? The same thing could have happened if they where sending her in to buy stolen copper pipe.
 
Why where the police sending an unarmed, untrained civilian in to buy drugs? The same thing could have happened if they where sending her in to buy stolen copper pipe.
Yes, and the KEYSYONE cops would be just as negligent.
 
The "gun related" comment was intended to invoke responses.

If this deal had been successfully concluded it would have provided ammunition to the antis to say how easy it is to purchase a gun illegally. No doubt, the illegal purchase of a firearm would have been splashed all over the news media. You can imagine the headline "23 year old girl hero in drug bust - buys drugs and firearm".

As it is the deal was botched. Now, no doubt we will see headlines on the theme of "23 year old girl killed in illegal gun purchase".

My point is, although the gun purchase was only a part of this deal, it provides ammunition to the anti gun community. and that does make this post distinctly gun related.

As for police bashing, the OP was not intended to be focussed on that matter but the local police can hardly dodge responsibility for this situation. A murder has been committed as a result of this drug bust.
 
If you don't get involved in drug-free activities, at some point you will have to pay the piper.

It really can make a difference when you get involved in your child's life. Young people are much less likely to have mental health and substance use problems when they have positive activities to do and when caring adults are involved in their lives.
 
I am in favor of the control of drugs, even aspects of the "War on Drugs", at the present time because we have no coherent alternative option. Put me down as "in favor of the war" but opposed to "how it is being fought" although this would be a long topic to discuss.

The drug use itself is an individual problem. Unfortunately, the crime that is attached to drug use is a problem that effects everyone in terms of violence and crime in general.

A particular aspect of drug crimes that effects us as firearms owners is the strong association between drugs and firearms crime. If the drug related firearms crimes were subtracted from the overall firearms crimes statistics the antis would lose much of their argument.

One of the aspects of the drug bust referred to in the OP is that the firearm purchase was, apparently, added to the drug purchase as a means of increasing the penalty for the drug dealers. It was not a necessary part of the plan to achieve the end that the police required. This deliberate association between crime and guns, cynically created by the police, does not help our cause.
 
I don't know why anyone would be down on the police in this situation... The goal of this operation was to set-up some bad guys for a crime more serious than drug dealing. Murder was committed... Operation a success. Right?
 
"Do we feel responsible? We're responsible for the safety of this community," Jones said, labeling Hoffman a "criminal" because she was caught twice with a baggie of marijuana.
Killer weed. Reefer madness.

Future US societies will look back in amazement at the times in which we live. The fact citizens could still own personal firearms and that marijuana was deemed illegal will bring great marvel.
 
Weed's illegal. Deal with it.

She got caught. Twice.

No one put a gun to her head to cooperate with the cops. Apparently she had no qualms dealing with unsavory characters who sell dope to buy before, why was this any different?

I find this morbidly hilarious how the stoner types and closet anarchists on here can make out the killers of the girl (the dope dealers) are somehow the aggrieved party because of the war of drugs while pinning the blame for her death on the cops.
 
So what is illegal about buying a gun in Florida? Aren't private gun sales perfectly legal? She was 21. Since they were able to trace the bullets that killed her to the gun she was going to buy, I'd be interested in knowing what that gun is. Is it a Class III weapon?
 
The key here is that the gun was being used to increase the drug dealers' prison time.

I believe that prohibition should be ended and that most drug crime will end as soon as prohibition does end but even if you believe in prohibition or just believe in enforcing it because it is currently the law, adding in the "use a gun" crime just to get a longer sentence doesn't make good sense. If lawmakers and prosecuters and judges want to give drug dealers longer sentences just increase the sentence for dealing drugs.
 
No one put a gun to her head to cooperate with the cops. Apparently she had no qualms dealing with unsavory characters who sell dope to buy before, why was this any different?

Yep, she did voluntarily enter into a deal to reduce her criminal liability for what was probably a low level felony, if not a misdemeanor. But that deal was predicated on the fact that the police would follow and give her protection for the extra danger she was exposing herself to. They failed miserably in that respect - the police failed to hold up their end of the deal and she paid the price for it.
 
I think the thread title sums it up, another victim of the "war on drugs". Cure is worse than the disease. It cost us the 4th Amendment, and now they are trying to associate "drugs and guns" as the tandem evils.

--wally.
 
If you live a criminal lifestyle or hang out with those that do, it's bound to catch up with you sooner or later.....She knew what she was doing and no she was only a victim of the choices she made. Nobody forced her to live the lifestyle she did.

One of the dirty little secrets of our crime rate is that most of the people who are killed in the violent segment of our society are people we'd be better off without anyway.

This thread sure doesn't fit in with all the posts about personal responsibility that are made around here. The culture of victimization sure comes out when it fits someone's political agenda....

Jeff
 
Jeff, I don't think death is appropriate for a young women who's worst crime appeared to be a couple baggies of marijuana.

Neither do I think being forced to try to buy a gun from thugs much higher up the criminal hierarchy to be appropriate. It'd be like trying to get a teenager convicted of underage drinking to help with a mafia drug bust.

Given that she was listed as a recent college graduate, I fully believe that there was plenty of room left for her to contribute to society.

Of course, in my mind I view marijuana as being about as bad as alcohol and tobacco.
 
Absolutely disgusting. They took this poor girl who had the integrity to not rat on her friends (if they banned guns and caught you with one, would you roll over on your friends to get out?), and just threw her to the wolves like so much useless meat. Did they put a gun to her head? Probably not. But I'm sure they made a great terrifying lecture about how a felony conviction would utterly destroy her life.

I don't think you could find a better example of the horrible cost of the war on (some) drugs. It created the murderers who killed this girl by making some flippin', lousy weed so valuable. It turned a police department meant to "protect and serve" into a bunch of heartless militants (and almost certainly utter hypocrites who will go home and have a drink or two after shift). And this girl died for it, all for simply wanting a smoke. Should she have known better, or been more careful? Yeah, absolutely. But that sure doesn't make her fate right. I hope her killers find themselves gunned down, and the cops who put her up to this become overwhelmed with shame.
 
It (War on Drugs) created the murderers who killed this girl by making some flippin', lousy weed so valuable.

That is the single biggest line of BULL I've ever heard! :fire:
NOBODY but the piece of scum murderers are responsible for killing that girl. NOBODY made them shoot her. They CHOSE to do that themselves.
That's the same sort of anti-responsibility pseudologic the anti gun people use to blame guns for crimes rather than the PEOPLE who commit them. PEOPLE have a CHOICE! PEOPLE choose to do evil. You can throw blame somewhere else but it was a PERSON who pulled the trigger on that girl. That's what it comes down to. :banghead::banghead::banghead:
 
No one put a gun to her head to cooperate with the cops. Apparently she had no qualms dealing with unsavory characters who sell dope to buy before, why was this any different?

I find this morbidly hilarious how the stoner types and closet anarchists on here can make out the killers of the girl (the dope dealers) are somehow the aggrieved party because of the war of drugs while pinning the blame for her death on the cops.

Wow, that statement amazes me. I can't say more than that and stay High Road. I am neither a stoner or a closet anarchist, but if the actions of the PD are accurately depicted in this story, *somebody* who made the decision to go with this operation has shown a total lack of the judgment necessary to be in the position to make such calls. I fully realize that the quote below is from her families attorney and probably a bit biased, but when you are a 23 year old fresh graduate who's being told "Do it or flush your future", that's not really a free choice, is it? You can bet your a** that if it were a cop doing the purchase, they would have aborted when they lost contact.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/story?id=5048185&page=1
Lance Block, an attorney hired by Hoffman's father after his daughter's death, said flatly he doesn't believe the deal went down the way the police have described. According to friends of Hoffman's in whom she confided, Block said, police told her she faced as much as four years in prison if she did not accept the offer.

"They told her 'it will all go away,' if you help us get some bad guys off the street," Block said.
 
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