Another "Which Manual" question.

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SC_Dave

SC_Dave

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Maybe with a slight difference.

I only load for 2 calibers. I know, I know. How do I even call myself a reloader. :rofl:

9mm FMJ RN 115 and 124
223. FMJ BT 55 and 62

#LotOfBookForTwoCalibers
 
SC_Dave said:
#LotOfBookForTwoCalibers
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No, not really. Most of the value of a reloading manual is in the material at the front that explains internal ballistics. The load data itself - you can get a lot of that for free these days. That's not the main value proposition.

To answer your question, I like Speer, Hornady, and Lyman manuals as general reference works, in about that order. Lyman moves up if you like loading lead.
 
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Dave, if you are human like the rest of us, that won't stand (two guns...four bullets).......you will be assimilated.;)

I started with Speer because that came with my Rock Chucker Kit, 40+ years ago.
Sierra came next.......started shooting their rifle bullets almost exclusively.
I bought a Colt Gold Cup .45, and a Ruger convertible .45........no reason to add manuals for years.....but I was assim......you know.
Hornady came next, then Nosler..... I like Nosler's hunting bullets..never read (yet) Lee's tome although it's got a good rep.......nor Lyman's.....not into casting.

All of the above have a great education to give if you'll study those important pages before you get to the load references.....as for loading your two calibers.....take your pick....and one will work, but I play it safe. My manual load data and bullets match, brand-wise. (My pistol bullets are all jacketed.) For cast, and plated pistol, Lyman ought to work great.
 
I'm a fan of the Lyman manuals because they use bullets and powders from companies other than theirs. They also recommend most accurate combinations in their tests. That would be one.

For a second manual I would but the book from the company you use bullets from most.

Add in the online load databases and you should be well covered whether you load for two calibers or twenty.
 
For Pistol I use Win 231 but the Hodgden site only list 2. Lead and Speer GD Hollow Point. Neither of which apply to me using RMR 115 or 124 RN FMJ
 
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ArchAngelCD said:
I'm a fan of the Lyman manuals because they use bullets and powders from companies other than theirs. They also recommend most accurate combinations in their tests. That would be one.

For a second manual I would but the book from the company you use bullets from most.

Add in the online load databases and you should be well covered whether you load for two calibers or twenty.
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+1 for Lyman's manual.
Hornady, Nosler, Speer, and Sierra, of these bllet makers, I have only purchased a couple or so of their bullets.
Between Lyman's and powder company's own data, has gotten me through a good portion of reloads.

Not saying other manuals wouldn't have been helpful.
 
The closest data that I see in the Lyman book is FMJ HP. Can FMJ HP data used in the absence of FMJ RN data?
 
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It used to be the data was as valuable as the reloading lessons in manuals, but these days there is so much free data online from the powder companies many people simply skip the manual. Some of these people then struggle because they don't know so many things they need to know to reload safely and problem free. Plus you can learn online these days if you can sit through the bad advise. We have a very high signal to noise ratio here, but there are lots of places on the web where the signal to noise ratio is poor.

Most people I would just tell to buy a good manual, but SC_Dave has proven himself to be competent and so I'd say it's a tossup as to how much he will get from a manual. There is sure to be good information he can use though, and buying one is never a bad idea.
 
SC_Dave said:
The closest data that I see in the Lyman book is FMJ HP. Can FMJ HP data used in the absence of FMJ RN data?
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Roughly, yes. But OAL will generally be different as dictated by the profile of the bullet, and differences in diameter and seating depth may require charge weight adjustment.

The RMR FMJ RN bullets have a blunt nose, long bearing surface, and are sized a bit larger than most at .3555". Especially if you don't have a lot of leade the OAL you will need to plunk will be shorter than usual and the seating depth often a bit deeper. All of these factors point to making more pressure/velocity at a given charge weight, so you might wish to back off the starting load a tenth or two and work it up to a velocity equal to or less than the max load indicated in your load data.

When I worked up the RMR FMJ RN 115gr. with CFE Pistol the 115 Gold Dot data was starting at 5.3 and max at 5.9gr. 5.4gr. with the RMR bullet produced roughly the same velocity as 5.9 did with the Gold Dot, so I stopped there.

I have a hard time believing there isn't somebody here who has chrono'ed W231/HP38 and these bullets and can give provide direct load data. Dudedog, bds?
 
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Reloading procedures, ballistics, etc., there are several good manuals. If all you want is load data, go online as it is more up to date than printed books.
 
I bought a few, the issue is they can become outdated before they hit the book store.
 
You could say that about any manual, but Lyman, Hornday, Speer, etc at least test their loads. I am guessing that these guys are just reprinting data from other sources, but I don't know for sure. That is probably my real question, not that it matters since I already own a bunch of manuals such as those mentioned. I like flipping though them and comparing data between various cartridges sometimes.
 
From one of my manuals
124gr JHP 1.06 OAl
W231 start 3.8 MAX 4.5

125gr JHP 1.075 OAL
W231 start 3.9 MAX 4.4

115 JHP 1.09 OAL
W231 start 3.5 MAX 4.9
A little lower than Hodgdon lists.
Hodgdon #s
125 GR. SIE FMJ Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.090" 4.4 1009 24,600 CUP 4.8 1088 28,800 CUP
125 GR. LCN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.125" 3.9 1009 25,700 CUP 4.4 1086 31,200 CUP
124 GR BERB HBRN Plated Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.150" 3.9 920 27,400 PSI 4.4 1037 31,900 PSI



115 GR. SPR GDHP Hodgdon HP-38 .355" 1.125" 4.7 1075 25,300 CUP 5.1 1167 28,100 CUP
115 GR. LRN Hodgdon HP-38 .356" 1.100" 4.3 1079 28,400 CUP 4.8 1135 32,000 CUP



Not sure what you were looking for Velocity wise but for what it's worth.
With the HP38 loads I was looking for something around 125-128 PF.
This is mixed range brass, S+P SP 5" 1911
Charges as thrown after setting measure.

String: 2
Date: 10/29/2017
Time: 9:42:14 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1068
Low Vel: 1004
Ave Vel: 1034
Ext Spread: 64
Std Dev: 24
RMR 124 MPR JHP 4.3 HP38 OAL 1.055 5inch 1911
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1046 129.704 301.222
1021 126.604 286.995
1004 124.496 277.518 Light charge? This one skews the data
1068 132.432 314.026
1034 128.216 294.35
Throwing out the 1004 load
1046
1021
1068
1034
Average 1042.25
ES 47 yuck still not good
SD 19.98

String: 5
Date: 10/29/2017
Time: 10:07:31 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1003
Low Vel: 962
Ave Vel: 983.2
Ext Spread: 41
Std Dev: 15.5
RMR 124 MPR JHP 4.0 HP38 1.06 5inch 1911
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
986 122.264 267.656
975 120.9 261.717
990 122.76 269.832
1003 124.372 276.965
962 119.288 254.785

I need to restest HP38 when I have a chance weighing every charge to see if the SD/ESs improve.

The MPRs are also a little larger dia .3555-.356
Not HP38 but to show the bullets are not the cause of high ES/SDs above

String: 5
Date: 10/29/2017
Time: 9:29:34 AM
Grains: 124
Hi Vel: 1092
Low Vel: 1071
Ave Vel: 1085
Ext Spread: 21
Std Dev: 8
RMR 124 FN-FMJ 5.0 BE86 1.08 5inch 1911
Velocity Power Factor Ft/Lbs
1084 134.416 323.506
1071 132.804 315.793
1092 135.408 328.298
1088 134.912 325.898
1092 135.408 328.298


I keep telling myself I need to get all my chrono data in an Access DB for easy lookup, but just never seem to find the time.
I will look and see if I have anything else.
 
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I have many many manuals. My Lyman manuals go back to the 42nd Edition and Speer back to #4. I like comparing old data to new and I like having data that is no longer thought to be necessary like Cast bullets in bottleneck rifle cartridges.

I must have 40 books and manuals and all are useful IMO. I did not buy them all new, I wasn't reloading back then. I bought them in all different places.
 
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FWIW, I subscribed to Load Data . com and I'm sorry to say was unimpressed. Wish I had that money back. No offense to you guys who use it and like it, I'm glad it works for you. I found it cumbersome and confusing. But then again I'm that special kinda dumb you read about in medical books.
 
I also recommend at least one printed manual for the handloading techniques and theory, as well as the load data. I like Lymans because they have excellent instructions and articles, plus they give data for cast as well as jacketed bullets. But then I like to have the manual of the manufacturer of the bullets I use most, so I have Hornady, Nosler and Sierra. Hornady is nice because it has separate sections for 5.56x45 and M1 Garand .30-06. Then I always xref with the powder manufacturer and Hodgdon has one of the best online.

I eventually added QuickLoad to my tool set for exploring various bullet types and alternate powders (back when all components were scarce).

The 55 gr FMJ is easy to load for. Just be sure to get decent quality bullets like from Hornady (usually can get them for under or near $10/100). Bulk, no name or milsurp or pulled bullets are junk and will not group well. Waste of powder. For powders, H335 is kind of a baseline for 55 gr at 25.0-25.3 gr. I get better accuracy with IMR 4166 (very accurate but filthy), BL-C2, and CFE-223 (amazing all-around choice), but since I mostly shoot 55 gr at 100 yds or less it is splitting hairs. I'm happy with any of those loads for short range. For accurate target shooting at longer distance I prefer the 69 gr or 77 gr BTHP using Varget or IMR 8208XBR, or CFE223.

For the 115 gr FMJ I would look to powders like Power Pistol, AA5, Unique or Universal. Speer is associated with ATK (Federal, Alliant, CCI, etc) so it will be heavier on the Alliant powders. Lyman, Hornady, Nosler, and Sierra will have broader powder selections.

In your situation I would recommend at a minimum the Hornady print manual and the Hodgdon online load tables (Ramshot also has excellent online data but fewer powders). But I would highly recommend adding the Lyman manual as well. Hornady tends to have quality bullets at prices lower than Nosler and Sierra. But if you go with their bullets then I would get their manual instead of the Hornady.

Just as a side note, the Lee manual has excellent articles, but the load data is reprinted collections from multiple bullet and powder manufacturers, but does include cast and jacketed. Like the one booklet per caliber, the Lee Manual is way out of date in terms of newer powders and bullets.
 
I started with Lyman, then Lee, then Speer and Hornady. I now have Sierra and Nosler as well.

I will say that the Lee is pretty low on my list. The information in the front of the manual is not bad, but not any better (IMHO) that any of the other manuals. The load data is nothing more than the data from the powder manufacturer's websites, with pertinent information missing like barrel length (important if you are trying to correlate velocity with a chrono).

I rank Lyman and Speer up at the top.

One manual I bought that I really like reading is the "Pet Loads" book by Ken Waters. Pricey, but there is a ton of general and historic information in that manual about each caliber. Most of the load data is somewhat dated now (some powders not available anymore, newer powders not listed) but it gives me insight not available in other manuals.
 
For the new reloader, I have read and reread both Lee's 2nd ed. & Lyman's Pistols & Revolvers 3rd ed. My opinion is that both are on par as it relates to instructional reading. Both offer the hows and whys. Both offer personal experience. And both, naturally, are there to sell their product. Lyman trumps Lee on data.

I'll admit, I haven't taken time read Lyman's 50th yet.
 
ATLDave said:
No, not really. Most of the value of a reloading manual is in the material at the front that explains internal ballistics. The load data itself - you can get a lot of that for free these days. That's not the main value proposition.

To answer your question, I like Speer, Hornady, and Lyman manuals as general reference works, in about that order. Lyman moves up if you like loading lead.
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I would put Hornady at the bottom of this list with Speer at the top, but I use the same 3 manuals.
 
Bfh_auto said:
I would put Hornady at the bottom of this list with Speer at the top, but I use the same 3 manuals.
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My Hornady manual is now one edition old. Best thing about it is that it does not go with the max-minus-10% start data that so many misunderstand as being a real minimum. If you want published load data for lighter loads, that manual is a good place to get "permission."
 
The truth is that all the manuals these days are excellent. And all of them are going to cover common calibers like 9x19 Luger and 223 Remington.

► The question for you is what bullet are you going to use ? For instance, if you decided that you simply must shoot the Sierra Match King in your 223, then the Sierra manual is going to offer you distinct advantages. If you're going to shoot whatever bullet is on sale, then the Lyman manual is probably better for general purpose use.

► Secondly, be aware that if you get a deal on a Makarov pistol next week, you could be in trouble. For instance, Speer does not make a Makarov bullet, and so the Speer manual has zero data for that gun. On the other hand, the Lyman manual covers almost all calibers, precisely becasue they don't make bullets.

Hope this helps.
 
I have a lot of reloading manuals.Some date back to the 40's and 50's.All of the current manuals are useful but some may not list the cartridge you need data on or perhaps not the powder you want to use.If I was going to buy only one manual it would be the Lyman 50th edition.
 
ATLDave said:
My Hornady manual is now one edition old. Best thing about it is that it does not go with the max-minus-10% start data that so many misunderstand as being a real minimum. If you want published load data for lighter loads, that manual is a good place to get "permission."
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The main complaint I have is the way they list velocities. Lyman lists pressure and velocity for the high and low side. This is why I like it better. I agree with you about the listing of lower loads instead of back off 10%.
 
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