Anti gun folk in Australia

[wingsof]

Here are some articles I have digged up on the gun grabbers and their failure and obvious paranoia.

A MAN found lurking in a laneway behind a hip Sydney nightclub, carrying a home-made high-powered machine gun, has been sentenced to a minimum of four years’ jail.

Edward Nassr, 31, of Kellyville, told police he had been urinating in the laneway behind DCM on Oxford St when officers saw him emerge carrying a large bag strapped over one shoulder in the early hours of June 9 last year.

A radio check of his name revealed he had previously been caught with a gun in a public place, and when police asked if he had anything in the bag, he replied: “Yeah, a gun.“

The “gun” turned out to be a highly lethal semi-automatic machine gun capable of firing bullets in rapid succession with one press of the trigger.

lso in the bag was a Glock brand magazine with 31 rounds of ammunition adapted to fit the machine gun, and a pair of black and red nylon gloves.

Nassr said he had been handed the bag in the laneway by “an unknown man” just 20 seconds before he was stopped by police and he planned to dispose of it.

He later pleaded guilty to possession of an unregistered firearm in a public place and possession of a prohibited weapon.

Sentencing Nassr in the District Court, Judge Penelope Hock said the weapon was highly dangerous and “a menace to the public.“

“I find the offender’s account to police officers on that night to be incredible,‘’ she said.

Nassr, who was on bail at the time for a similar offence after police caught him with a loaded pistol in a car in July 2007, also has prior convictions for armed robbery, assault and break and enter, the court heard.

Judge Hock sentenced him to a minimum of four years’ jail with a balance of two years and nine months to be served on parole.

With time already served, he will be eligible for release in January 2013.

"Highly lethal Semi-Auto machine gun"? Can someone say fearmongering?

A LONG-SERVING police sergeant was equipped with a Taser when she used a gun to shoot a man in suburban Sydney.

The man, who also had self-inflicted knife wounds died at Canterbury Hospital this morning, the Daily Telegraph reports.

It is believed one reason the officer fired was that the confrontation occurred in the kitchen of the Lakemba house, meaning the man may have been too close for the Taser to be effective.

Police have revealed they were called to the Wangee Rd home about 8.50am (AEDT) after reports of a man trying to kill himself with a knife.

They arrived with paramedics and started to treat the 36-year-old man on the floor of the kitchen.

South-west Metrpolitan Region Commander, Assistant Commissioner Stuart Wilkins, said the man then got to his feet, grabbed a knife and confronted those attempting to help.

A female Sergeant with 21-years experience then drew her service-issue Glock revolver and shot the man once.

“He’s committed self-harm again and have police have wrestled the knife from him,“ Ass Commissioner Wilkins said.

Paramedics again started treating him and raced him to hospital but died.

The shot man, known to neighbours as Adam, had walked next door about 7.30am (AEDT) to ask to borrow a mop, and was not suffering injuries at that time, a neighbour told reporters.

About 90 minutes later emergency service crews were called to the house.

“Upon arrival with the ambulance, police located a male suffering stab wounds in the kitchen of the house,‘’ Mr Wilkins said.

“Paramedics had attempted to assist that person. During this time the male, who has got up from a lying position, we believe he has grabbed a knife from the kitchen and confronted police.

“During that confrontation that male has been shot, once, by police ... a further struggle has ensued, the male has committed self-harm again, police have wrestled the knife from that male person.‘’

The man was then taken to hospital by ambulance.

Four police officers, three women and one man, were at the house at the time of the shooting.

The man’s father was also at the house at the time.

Police say he was not injured, but a next-door neighbour, who did not want to be identified, said the older man had been brought into her backyard for treatment and had been covered in blood.

The father and son are believed to have lived together and were the only occupants of the house.

The man was not known criminally to police.

Mr Wilkins would not confirm that the officers were threatened, but said the decision to use a firearm was “not taken lightly’‘ by officers.

“I’m not here to speculate on the use of Tasers or whether or not that was the appropriate use at that time,‘’ he said.

“Tasers are just one option available to us, we have a number of options available.‘’

To read more go to The Daily Telegraph

This next one is my personal favourite...

Tougher handgun restrictions should be adopted in Australia to reduce the hundreds of thousands in circulation, say the Australian Greens, after the second school shooting massacre in Finland in less than a year.

A student, Matti Juhani Saari, used a handgun to shoot and kill 10 people before taking his own life at a trade school in western Finland.

According to media reports he had a valid licence for the weapon.

Greens leader Bob Brown said today there were 300,000 hand guns in Australia and it was time for a dramatic reduction.

"The people who require a (hand) machine gun be carried around available to them, in the glove box or whatever, is very, very limited in a peaceful society like our own," he said.

"There is no reason for so many hundreds of thousands of handguns, including effectively hand machine guns, to be available in Australia."

Senator Brown said long guns had been dealt with in 1996, following the Port Arthur massacre, but the question of handguns had not been tackled.

"They were never collected and destroyed, and taken out of the hands of people who didn't need them, and that's the majority of people who own them," he added.

The Sporting Shooters Association of Australia said there was no need for tougher gun laws.

Association spokesman Tim Bannister slammed Senator Brown for his comments within hours of the Finnish tragedy.

"We find it quite distasteful to talk about the acts of criminals and the mentally unhinged straight after the event," he said.

Mr Bannister accused Senator Brown of being extremist, populist and exploitative.

"Handgun ownership has always been incredibly strictly legislated," he said, and more laws would not stop the criminals.

Mr Bannister said the problem was criminals - he mentioned bikies and the mafia - who had handguns but no licence for them. The police should crack down on such activity.

"Criminals don't listen to laws, that's why they're criminals. They're outlaws," he said.

Mr Bannister said only people with a genuine reason, such as target shooters and vets, could get a handgun licence. He could not comment on how many handguns there were in Australia.

Calls for tighter handgun restrictions were sparked vy last year's Melbourne CBD shooting in which former bikie Christopher Wayne Hudson used an illegal handgun to shoot dead one man and severely injure two others.

Ok, the guy (Bob Brown - Greens senator (Left wing party)) is obviously a nutcase who makes no sense at all.
1. Its illegal to have a handgun in the glove box (It has to be in the boot of the car, with the ammunition in a seperate vehicle).
2. Handguns do serve a LEGITIMATE purpose in sporting shooting in Australia
3. Handguns are SEVERLY regulated to the point where its much easier to goto your local organized gang or drug dealer and get yourself a firearm.
4. "Hand Machine Guns"? You gotta be kidding me!

Oh and if you're wondering what gun was used in the shooting, it was a Llama Minmax in .40 (or .45). And to clarify things, We can only have handguns that have a barrel length or at least 120mm (revolvers 100mm), maximum 10 round capacity and a calibre limit of .38.

And if you were wondering, the shooting was a random shooting and the dead victim had NO AFFILIATION with the perpetrator. He was just in the wrong place in the wrong time.


This article is obvious scarmongering in reducing firearm ownership...

MORE than half of all South Australian child gunshot deaths in the past four decades were homicides, a University of Adelaide study has revealed.

The study shows that over the past 37 years, at least 42 children under the age of 17 have died from gunshot wounds.

The study shows that 52.4 per cent of the deaths were homicides, 33.3 per cent were suicides and 14.3 per cent were accidents.

Many of the homicides were murder-suicides.

Forensic pathologist Professor Roger Byard said the figures were disturbing, but well below that of comparative regions in the United States, where private ownership of firearms is far more common.

Child shooting statistics in San Diego, California, were used as a comparison in the study.

"In San Diego, there were 185 paediatric deaths over an 18-year period as a result of firearms," he said.

"The incidence of homicide was significantly higher in San Diego County compared to Adelaide, but per capita there were more murder-suicides in South Australia."

Professor Byard said the study showed that death rates from gunshots were five to six times higher in the United States than other countries of a similar socioeconomic level.

"Availability and access to firearms in the United States must be considered a potential factor," he said.

"The comparative rarity of gunshot deaths in Australian children relates to differences in cultural and legislative practices, with reduced access to weapons in this country."

Actually, no, its the safety teaching of firearms and proper parenting/responsible that reduces the amount of firearm homicides. Oh, and the reduction of gangs since its not un-common to see 13-17 yr old gangbangers in gangs.

Oh and I wonder how many kids have died from swimming pool drownings?

 

[War Squirrel]

That's so insane, but it's a good indicator of typical media spin.
I'd love to get one of those "Glock revolvers".

But jeez, I'd say over 37 YEARS, only 42 deaths of children in S. Australia resulted from the current standard of weaponry on Earth? That's a good record compared to most nations. Tragic of course, but it could be much worse.

“During that confrontation that male has been shot, once, by police ... a further struggle has ensued, the male has committed self-harm again, police have wrestled the knife from that male person.‘’

Wait, that's weird. Why do the cops have guns if the people shouldn't have 'em?
This hill is getting awful steep. And that's downwards.

 

[chuwee81]

........Okay,...... so bad stuff happens in finland (or anywhere else in the world for that matter).......... therefore we need to ban it here.....

makes as much sense as .......
THIS

 

[Aaron12]

yeah, australians gun laws are rubbish, dont think theyll ever change either..

 

[Boris Barowski]

Written after a young couple was shot (with illegal guns) and burned in their car by their neighbor.
From a Belgian newspaper.

The murderer of Shana and Kevin owned multiple guns. Is the Belgian Firearms law strict enough? "Yes, but the enforcement is lacking" says crimonologist xxx. "Still there are more illegal than legal firearms. This will inevitably make our society more dangerous".

In a Democratic state with laws, it are the government agences who maintain the civil order and security through a monopoly on force. This means that self defence by civilians should and must remain a rare exeption.

However, we see that our society become more violent. Home invasions in which civilians are threatened by violence and firearms and robbed of their money and jewelry were virtually non-existant five of six years ago. Now they are routine.

Violence calls for even more violence

Despite noble and successful action like the major collection of non-registered firearms, there are a huge number of guns in circulation. This has to do with the increasingly individualistic structure of our society, with an "every man for himself" mentality, in which people take justice into their own hands. But it also has to do with our open society in which immigration from the Balkans and former sovjet republics is common, and firearms are more accepted in those areas

My rule is: Violence delivers more violence. Firearms ownership leads to a fake feeling of security. Armed robbers are prepared to use violence, their victims are by definition not or badly prepared. If civilians think they can defend their home with firearms, they will incur even more violence against themselves.

More illegal guns

I understand the shooting sports, and sport shooters without a criminal record. Nut inevitably some will be uncareful with their collection, so that legal guns end up in the illegal circuit. Of course there are more illegal than legal firearms in circulation. The enforcement of laws to bring down that black market is impossible without the police randomly controlling and invading our privacy.

Spiral of violence.

Due to the lack of airtight control we end up sinking in a spiral of violence. Even legal gun ownership leads to this. Just think of the many incidents where innocent people get mistaken for burglars. Even the police ends up getting shot at every summer when doing routine house controls. In the end, we end up in situation where Shana and Kevin became the victim. Their neighbor obtained firearms. Even psychopaths can do that, because their dangerous condition isn't written on their face.

Belgium not an island

We are in a catch 22: Even if the firearms law is sufficiently strict, the enforcement fails. Unlawful firearms possession is only noticed when it is dramatically late. But make no illusion, Belgium is not an island. We will never succeed in removing all firearms within our borders. But we have to try to get rid of that false sense of security that many civilians derive from legal or illegal guns. We should to everything we can to make self defense a very rare exception.

I translated it quickly, but it should reflect the sentiment quite accurately. I especially loathe how he uses explicitly personal statements to influence public opinion. This is supposed to be a respectable newspaper

Australia is not alone in this

 

[Shung]

of course, the problem is the gun, not the vicious murder, that would have done just the same using a knife, a big stick, or simply his hands..

What's wrong with this people ?

Just think of the many incidents where innocent people get mistaken for burglars.

Oh really ? can't even think of one exemple in Switzerland recently..

If civilians think they can defend their home with firearms, they will incur even more violence against themselves.

I'll take my chances this way Sir, THANKS.


Boris, could I get a link to the article in french ( or flamand ? )

 

[cambeul41]

Post 5

The enforcement of laws to bring down that black market is impossible without the police randomly controlling and invading our privacy.

Even the police ends up getting shot at every summer when doing routine house controls.

Police doing random home invasions? OMG!

 

[wingsof]

But make no illusion, Belgium is not an island. We will never succeed in removing all firearms within our borders.

Even if belgium was only an island, criminals would still be able to smuggle firearms into the country. For example, here in Australia bikies (its what we call bikers here) import firearms by taking them apart and placing the parts in engine blocks. The oil in the engine blocks deter sniffer dogs and the placement of the parts of the firearms are well concealed from x-rays. And to make matters seem worse, barely 1 in 20 engine blocks get searched and the searches are actually declining.

 

[Boris Barowski]

@cambeul41,
In the summer, when a lot of people are on holiday, the police patrol for suspicious activity, such as open doors etc, which could mean someone is breaking in. Or someone is at home. Anyway, sometimes they enter the house, and apparently get shot.

I don't think it happens that often, especially since when you phone in a burglary at night, they drive around the neighborhood with lights and sirens on for about 5 tot 10 minutes before checking your house. This is to make sure all burglars are already gone by the time they arrive, it's way safer for them.

@wingof. True, that's an easy way to smuggle firearms. And (unfired/cleaned) guns don't smell any different than other metal objects. 1 in 20 blocks sure is a lot. Belgium is a transit country for everything you can imagine, and due to the number of cargo I think depending on the terminal 1 in 500 to 1 in 3000 containers actually gets checked.

@Shung. I'll try to get you the link, but I can't find it at the moment (I translated this from an aggregate list of similar articles). It's in dutch/flemish. And yes, I'd rather take my chances too, and have some defensive capabilities nearby. If they are prepared to shoot me, I better do my darn best stopping them and provide some negative incentives. If they don't plan on shooting me, they still have no business in my house, and I intend making that very clear.

 

[StarDust1]

I thought guns in any form were now "verboten" down under?

 

[wingsof]

I thought guns in any form were now "verboten" down under?

Nope, only Pump action shotguns and semi-auto/auto rifles/shotguns are forbidden in Australia. Even then, you can't own a gun for personal protection (It must be for sporting shooting, hunting, pest control) and you have to jump through about 1,000,000 facist hoops to get your first firearm, even if it is an air rifle or a single shot .22lr. Oh and did you know the police come to your house and inspect to see you have stored your firearms properly every once in a while?

 

[4v50 Gary]

I also want a Glock revolver. Do they shoot plastic bullets?

 

[Aaron12]

Semi autos are not "forbidden" in Australia, you can get them, you just need the correct licenses.

 

[wingsof]

ah, yes true. However you need to be a primary producer or pretty much shoot for a living. Collectors can own deactivated semi auto/fully auto firearms.

 

[Morgo]

Seriously, what did you expect from anti gun groups and a biased media here in Australia?

 

[withdrawn34]

I'd be more interested in seeing a Glock revolver which happens to be a semi-auto hand machine gun.

But, sorry to see this. Sadly, there are plenty of people like that in the US, and many of them are in positions of influence like the media and political office.

 

[ozhuntsman]

the laws here are up the %*#!.

i can own a pump action 30-06 but i can't own a pump action 12g. check on this website:

http://http://www.usedguns.com.au

if it's legal (with licences and permits) to buy in australia, you will proabably find it here.

it takes weeks to get a 6 plus weeks to get your first gun, even if it's only a air rifle. yet you can buy a compound bow with licence or waiting periods.

and we have no rights to defend ourselves/ families in our own homes.

i'm seriously considering moving to america to enjoy the greater right and freedoms you guys have.

 

[Arcticfox]

If civilians think they can defend their home with firearms, they will incur even more violence against themselves.

So, I guess I should cower in a corner, and Pray that the burgler doesn't shoot me, or my family.

I think not...

 

[GunsBeerFreedom]

i'm seriously considering moving to america to enjoy the greater right and freedoms you guys have.

You'd be more than welcome here. Hell, I can find you an apartment in 5 minutes.

 

[ozhuntsman]

You'd be more than welcome here. Hell, I can find you an apartment in 5 minutes.

thanks, but it's convincing the wife and getting a well paying job that would be the biggest problem.

 

[wingsof]

i can own a pump action 30-06 but i can't own a pump action 12g.

Whats even more funny is a 2 round pump action 12ga is forbidden, but a double barrel 10ga is fine. I swear the ban on pump action shotguns for ordinary citizens was so they could confiscate more guns.

This is a bit off topic:

I noticed a trend that 3 years after the gun reform, they outlawed a lot of weapons, including extendable batons, pepper spray, tasers, knuckle dusters, flick knives (what we call switchblades), pistol crossbows, daggers, etc. Hell, the state of victoria outlawed kubotans (which means you could get in trouble for possession of a kubotan). Not only that, but it was no longer a good reason to carry any weapon for self defence. Hell, just recently the state of victoria are now targeting areas and searching anyone randomly for weapons because of a random stabbing incident.

 

[Aaron12]

plus, you can only get a pistol if your an active member of a gun club, or you work security. plus another 20 hoops you have to jump through after all that.