Anti-Gun Motive One Reason for Mass Shooting at Louisville Bank

[N555]

Alex Jones, anyone?
Sure conspiracies happen. Is this a large operation or a lone wolf? Maybe we'll never know. Fact of the matter is, this guy was disillusioned enough to believe he should commit this act as a means of furthering an agenda HE believed in. Whether fabricated in his own mind or convinced by an outside party and trained up, HE did it. He bought in, he fired the shots, he left the obligatory journal and outline of his plan/reasoning/gripes.

We have the who, when, where, how, and a good portion of the why. What is what's debatable. What makes certain people with mental illness resort to violence while most are non violent? What makes white dudes seemingly more susceptible to behave this way?

Bear in mind that this may be the only instance on record where the shooter was self-proclaimed anti 2A. In most other cases, the hatred is based on race/ethnicity or a real (or perceived) very personal slight.

I had utube video of a shrink based on NYC giving a lecture and was telling a room full of other shrinks and shrinks in training if you have someone saying they want to go on a shooting spree, just tell them to do it. But the uTube channel it was posted on has been nuked by uTube.
A bunch of NYC head shrinks at a lecture isn't exactly a pro-gun rally.
At what point is it no longer a conspiracy?

 

[Howland937]

At what point is it no longer a conspiracy?

On an individual basis or as a whole?
I've heard of way more cases of random shooting rampages carried out by deranged individuals who've been linked to antisemitic or racist hate groups than have been linked to anti 2A groups.

 

[230RN]

If you say there's a conspiracy you're spreading Russian propaganda, now where have we heard that one before?

See? I told you there was a conspiracy to squash conspiracy theories !

 

[Will Munny]

Sort of. Will depend on who you cite, and where you measure the "start."
Japanese started operation in Korea & China in 1933.
Italy's adventures in Ethiopia were in '34.
The Germans, of course, technically started things up in September '38 in Poland (but an argument can be made for the annexation of the Sudatenlande).
US involvement, officially, in December 1941, clearly, yes.

Which is the problem with all things human, the synopsis may not include "all the things," all the important details. Which then can engender mostly pointless arguments about expediency versus deliberate inclusion/omission.

Our world would be a much better place if common sense were more common.

Poland was September 1939.

But no one who knows what they are talking about actually chalks WWII up to "revenge", except perhaps on the part of the USA in a limited sense. The "Germany was angry over 1919" bit is a fairy tale history taught in public schools, it has nothing to do with the actual history of what happened.

Insofar as this relates to the 2A, its important to keep the record straight because the same people who pedal the "revenge" theory use it to substantiate a worldview of national defense and security wherein simply being nice and placing authority in international organizations such as the UN is the solution, with states and particularly citizens having no role in maintaining peace. In reality, the war had nothing to do with revenge, and its actual geopolitical origins are a cautionary lesson about the importance of national defense, which includes an armed populace.

 

[N555]

On an individual basis or as a whole?
I've heard of way more cases of random shooting rampages carried out by deranged individuals who've been linked to antisemitic or racist hate groups than have been linked to anti 2A groups.

At least a portion of the mass shooter phenomenon appears to be helped or groomed.
Here is a good example.
Family claims fbi gave their mentally ill son at least $2,000 to buy guns and put a plan in his head to go shot up the capital.

Dad Accuses FBI of Setting Up 'Mommy's Boy' Son in Bomb Plot

The parents of an Ohio 20-year-old arrested for allegedly plotting an ISIS-inspired attack on the U.S. Capitol say their son is not a terrorist.

abcnews.go.com

Say they're setting them up just to take them down sure. But what would stop them from setting up an attack and just not stopping it either intentionally, through incompetence or say the agent died suddenly?

 

[230RN]

I feel obligated to bring up a logical sequence I mentioned a while ago where people were denying the possibility of something since there was "no proof" of it.

I think the logic is relevant in this case of whether some mass shootings could be proven to be related to creating anti-2A sentiment.

Follow this logical sequence:
----------------------------
On "proof:"

1.There is no proof without evidence.
2. There is no evidence without investigation.
3. There is no investigation without suspicion.
4. But suspicion without proof is paranoia, so shut up, you paranoid conservative.

They wrapped all that up in a nice little package, right?

-------------

Terry said that.

 

[Howland937]

just not stopping it either intentionally, through incompetence or say the agent died suddenly?

Seems like any type of sting operation like that would involve more than just one agent, so one dying wouldn't derail the whole thing. Busting the kid may have been peripheral as they were after the people he was getting guns from too?

Intentionally allowing an attack would require cooperation/negligence from multiple agents. We've seen enough examples of failure to follow up that you'd have an easier time convincing me that the conspiracy is to do nothing vs actively arming and grooming people.

4. But suspicion without proof is paranoia, so shut up, you paranoid conservative

Maybe it's just to the point where folks are weary of fabricated facts coming from both directions. Someone comes to tell me the sky is falling, they better bring a cloud or a rainbow... cause an apple won't cut it.

 

[230RN]

^

Your first quote doesn't seem to cover other possible groups who might want to get the actor to act... foreign or domestic, Terry added, archly.

Don't limit your perspective.

I agree with your remark on proof, but the problem is that the process of obtaining that proof may be short-stopped by claims of paranoia or whatever. Where investigation is stifled (by paranoia accusations or by the PTB), there can be no proof, no rainbow, no cloud.

That "paranoia" claim is a very powerful deterrent. Yet "non-clinical" paranoia is a survival trait. I use the analogy of a cat crossing an alley in the city. Stops, looks both ways, skulks across, stopping, freezing, for anything suspicious, and finally successfully gets to the other side.

Sometime, somewhere, somehow, that cat learned something.

Terry, 230RN

 

[N555]

Seems like any type of sting operation like that would involve more than just one agent, so one dying wouldn't derail the whole thing. Busting the kid may have been peripheral as they were after the people he was getting guns from too?

Intentionally allowing an attack would require cooperation/negligence from multiple agents. We've seen enough examples of failure to follow up that you'd have an easier time convincing me that the conspiracy is to do nothing vs actively arming and grooming people.


Maybe it's just to the point where folks are weary of fabricated facts coming from both directions. Someone comes to tell me the sky is falling, they better bring a cloud or a rainbow... cause an apple won't cut it.

See operation Northwoods

 

[Riomouse911]

At least a portion of the mass shooter phenomenon appears to be helped or groomed.
Here is a good example.
Family claims fbi gave their mentally ill son at least $2,000 to buy guns and put a plan in his head to go shot up the capital.

Dad Accuses FBI of Setting Up 'Mommy's Boy' Son in Bomb Plot

The parents of an Ohio 20-year-old arrested for allegedly plotting an ISIS-inspired attack on the U.S. Capitol say their son is not a terrorist.

abcnews.go.com

Say they're setting them up just to take them down sure. But what would stop them from setting up an attack and just not stopping it either intentionally, through incompetence or say the agent died suddenly?

Ala the ATF’s botched Fast and Furious?

Incompetence happens quite often, as humans are involved. I’m not so sold on an intentional killing spree being sanctioned.

Lets hope and pray neither happens, there has been enough senseless bloodshed.

Stay safe.

 

[N555]

Ala the ATF’s botched Fast and Furious?

Incompetence happens quite often, as humans are involved. I’m not so sold on an intentional killing spree being sanctioned.

Lets hope and pray neither happens, there has been enough senseless bloodshed.

Stay safe.

Yes F&F is an example of the government doing it on large scale.
The 2015 incident is an example of government arming an individual to go do a thing.

The government has sanctioned multiple killing sprees over the years going all the way back to wounded knee.
Operation northwoods was the government planning a false flag .ass shooting attack to gain anti-communist support.

 

[N555]

See operation Northwoods

I love red pilling normies.
Nothing beats exposing people who are always going on about "government would never do this or never do that" are to operation Northwoods. And just like that all stuff they thought was just "crazy conspiracy theories" are no longer just theories.

 

[Old Hobo]

Any potential copy-cat nutcase knows that he will get tens of millions of dollars-worth of press coverage from the mainstream media if he goes on a shooting spree. Therefore, these killings will continue.

There have been semi-automatic rifles around for over a century. After WWII, look how many tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, of M1 Garands and M1 Carbines were distributed all over the nation. Yet, there were not these mass shootings.

Back then, sanity ruled the day. Not so much now.
.

 

[230RN]

...

 

[N555]

Any potential copy-cat nutcase knows that he will get tens of millions of dollars-worth of press coverage from the mainstream media if he goes on a shooting spree. Therefore, these killings will continue.

There have been semi-automatic rifles around for over a century. After WWII, look how many tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, of M1 Garands and M1 Carbines were distributed all over the nation. Yet, there were not these mass shootings.

Back then, sanity ruled the day. Not so much now.
.

Yeah heard that after ww2 m1 carbine and garands could be had for pocket change.
The first effective semi auto rifle was about 1907 or 1908. All mass shooting were criminals/government or called "war" through the 60s.

 

[Basura Blanca]

Police have now released a report on the murder spree and referred to notes and journals the POS kept. He called himself a "psycho" and had been hospitalized for mental problems.

Don't invest too much thought into the words of a murderer, particularly with respect to any self evaluation. There isn't a deeper layer to it. Nor is there a learning opportunity for preventative use. Tons of research indicates there is no "red flag" to be found in any of these cases. Evaluating some journal to suss out meaning to these killings is an act of futility.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

I have a Winchester Model 1907 that was manufactured in 1927 in what they referred to as 351 Self Loading. I keep a close eye on it but so far it has not made any threatening moves. It resides next to an AR and an AK on the gun rack.

 

[jmr40]

I think we'd be better off not releasing ANY info after these things. Not the shooters name, the gun they used, their motive, nothing. Just a statement that the shooter is dead. No headlines, no misplaced glory, no way to get their manifesto made public. IMO it would greatly reduce the copycats and eventually the number of incidents.

Of course, NOT releasing any info would just fuel the conspiracy theories.

 

[230RN]

I think we'd be better off not releasing ANY info after these things. Not the shooters name, the gun they used, their motive, nothing. Just a statement that the shooter is dead. No headlines, no misplaced glory, no way to get their manifesto made public. IMO it would greatly reduce the copycats and eventually the number of incidents.

Of course, NOT releasing any info would just fuel the conspiracy theories.

I don't know... I was brought up pretty egalitarian, but I would like to know last names.

I keep mentioning that there's a difference between pre-judice and post-judice.

Let that bomb fall where it may.

Terry, 230RN