Antique gun import from UK?

[Bob88]

Hello, new member, first post.

I have a friend from the UK who has a US Army issue Colt .45 M1911A1 S/N 2296xxx and two clips that he inherited (found in a barn or some such). He tells me that citizens of the UK can no longer own or possess handguns (but he has it just the same). So when I saw him last, he said to me that if we can get the gun over here, I can have it, he would use it (at shooting range) from time to time with me when he is in the US. I have an firearms ID and own two other handguns.

Looked into this and understand that an FFL has to file a ATF Form 6 (or can I get the form and do it on behalf of the intended FFL?).

The gun (we assume) is not worth a lot of $$, but we agree that it would be nice to have and to shoot instead of being kept illegally in the UK. (Edit: Maybe it is worth more than I thought? The serial number looks up as 1945 production, end of WWII) Two FFL's (both of whom I have used for domestic transfers) say that it is not worth the time, trouble and expense. Is this truly the case (and is there part of such a transaction I could do to make it easier for the FFL?). I would like to have the gun imported if it was feasible.

So, I would like to hear people's experience and if there are FFL's who have (and would) do this sort of transaction, I would be grateful to know about them. Also, any opinion of such a guns worth?

Thanks in advance and regards,

Bob

 

[Pulse]

you would have to do it over the offical channels, wich in turn means that the UK gov will get to know that he has a handgun -> he goes to jail for 5-10 years, will be portrayed as childmurdered in the media and he will have trouble traveling once he is out of jail, especialy in to the USA.

tell him you destroy the gun as fast as he can, its not worth the trouble.

 

[woodybrighton]

being under a 100 years old and not an obslete calibre its as illegal as grandads bring back mp 44 would be in the states assuming it was'nt registered.
I'll check with my mates one is a dealer and the other might as well be a hundred odd rifles all for personal use yeah right.
serious old european sporter habit to fund.
But I doubt theres a way round the law.
some people do own handguns still ,very rare e.g. farmer owns a colt python for animal dispatch and a bit of plinking.
there is a machine gun club couple of lewis guns and vickers in the back of an old landrover while .22 olympic target pistols were in an armoured van for safe keeping.

 

[woodybrighton]

first thing to realise is the brit 'mate' is in possession of an illegal unregistered firearm. now that is serious pokey time. (if its not a de-act)
'I was just going to ask the police if I could export this handgun I found to a mate in the states' will make a very interesting defence plea and I for one would love to hear the judges reply.
so in a word no hell no

 

[woodybrighton]

if if it was a 1911 could be held on a section 7

possilby a registered firearms dealer could export it for you find one who has a section 5 licence and give them a ring don't turn up with said gun they won't be impressed.
but I'd bin it somewhere deep and wet

 

[Bob88]

"if if it was a 1911 could be held on a section 7"

It is a M1911A1, etc., etc. as described in my original post. It is a 1945 vintage US Army (stamped right on the gun) handgun.

So far, sounds like monkeys flying out of my butt would be more likely than figuring out and realizing a legal transfer into the US.

What's a "section 7"? Guess that is a UK loophole which allows possession of certain firearms?

Can't my buddy simply state that he was returning the property to the US where it came from? ;-) At least there would be a shred of truth in that defense...

 

[woodybrighton]

sorry he might approach a sympathic firearms dealer but a watery grave is probably its best bet

much like the argentine para stock FAL my god farther might have given me
section 7 allows handguns to be held at certain armourys but only certain types.

some rugers were allowed to be held due to "ASETHIC REASONS" but not colts or smiths as there ugly

 

[armedandsafe]

I;m sending a message to an UK buddy who might have some input.

Pops

 

[EmGeeGeorge]

does he have an ocean worthy sailboat... do you?

 

[Odd Job]

Tell your mate to ditch that 1911 pronto. Unfortunately no good will come from any handling of that pistol. Them's the breaks.

 

[armedandsafe]

Here is the response from my buddy in England.

Pops
The problem here is that the guy with the Colt in the UK is committing a serious offence with a minimum 5 year jail term. It doesn't sound like he is a gang member type, but the law is the law and he is on the wrong side of it. I would stay well clear, I doubt there is anyway he is going to legally send it anywhere. If I were to advise him I would suggest he hand it to the police or a dealer without delay.


Quote:
Originally Posted by armedandsafe
Jump in here...

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=424090

Pops

__________________
DVC - Diligentia, Vis, Celeritas - Accuracy, Power, Speed.

A little silliness can be good for the soul

This from a guy who hangs out with SAS and police agencies to repair guns and shoot full autos.

Pops

 

[Geneseo1911]

This makes me sick. A piece of history and the best advice that can be given is to destroy it. This pistol should be cherished and shot, but socialist feel-gooders have destroyed personal property and self-defense rights.

I know we don't advocate law-breaking on THR, but if it was me, I'd mail it to the US in several small packages with no return address, from the continent if necessary. I wouldn't tell another soul on either side, and I wouldn't leave any paper trail. This noble old weapon deserves better than a watery grave or languishing in some museum as an example of what free men used to be able to enjoy.

 

[woodybrighton]

unfortunatly handguns disappeared because somebody who should have had there licence revoked walked into a primary school and murdered half a dozen kids and there teacher
This in a country where handgun shooting was a minority sport and the NRA and other lobbyists bent over backwards never to offend anyone.
The majority of the population was solidly behind the ban having had any access to weapons restricted in the 1920s.
not because of crime because the goverment was afraid of the working class being armed

 

[Bob88]

Gene,

In theory your idea sounds good, but practically speaking: I do not think one could make international shipments anonymously (but it is worth looking into!) and second (if it is like other guns I own) it could not be taken apart sufficiently to no longer make it represent a gun. In this quest I read somewhere that even the frame of a handgun is considered a firearm, and the frame only comes apart so far, the bare frame looks like a gun.

So my summary of posts so far (thanks everyone for your input) is that there is no way to do anything with the piece without taking serious risk, risk that should not be taken lightly. Beyond that, it is just a damn shame that an interesting/nostalgic piece of history must be hidden from the light and is a risk to a person who dares to hold it in that country and further that there is no good way to send it to the place it came from and where it could be held and used legally.

Thanks,

Bob

 

[throdgrain]

Deleted

 

[MagnumDweeb]

A shame really. If I lived in a pseudo-slave state where folks who are worthless live off the doll (as said by friends from England, family in Ireland who are thankfully moving back to a free country) and harass good honest folk, and I had found a gun that had been unfairly put on an illegal list becuase of the 'subject' mindset of a people...that's a hard one. Some folks might try to do the right thing and get pinched by a worthless government stooge. Some might toss it in the ocean, some might disassemble it to oil it up for storage and bury it in separate parts of a property they had access to under foot thick small slabs of concrete and work on figuring out how to make bullets for the gun, even if they are only good for single shots to protect themselves from the possible day the infeebile minded government collapses and gets overrun by hordes of handout self-entitled 'no-snitching' garbage. One should never break the law and I hope I would never have to make that choice.

One should never break the law, and as such I'm glad to live free in the South of the United States.

 

[Bob88]

A shame indeed. Look at the post before yours (which has been deleted). The poor guy thought better (probably more like thought about "big brother") and figured he had better delete what he had posted.

My friend in the UK says he has had a success in regard to this quest today, has good news and to watch here. What could it be? Here's hoping it's something we (he and I) can act on.

Bob

 

[drgrenthum]

"I know we don't advocate law-breaking on THR, but if it was me, I'd mail it to the US in several small packages with no return address, from the continent if necessary. I wouldn't tell another soul on either side, and I wouldn't leave any paper trail. This noble old weapon deserves better than a watery grave or languishing in some museum as an example of what free men used to be able to enjoy."

I second that......Break it down into as many pieces as possible and ship them one at a time.

 

[don134]

M1911 A1 in UK

I am the guy in the UK with this and i really want to thank Bob for setting this up and all the posts you guys have made.

The great news is i decided to use my contacts in the Police armed unit here (i am ex military and worked on UK emergency service network so thats the link i have with them) and all is now well, with the best possible outcome.

I am on route to hand it into the Armed Response Unit guys. They will register it to me, send it for forensics and if it cleared it becomes mine. Now for the mad bit that is i can't have it. Even thought its mine it must stay in their armoury. The good news is that they have informed me i can have it sent to the states via a dealer, which they are going to help me sort out.

I will update this later on with the final outcome, as of course if this has been involved in crime (very unlikely been wrapped up in a barn in South Wales for 30 years) then obviously i won't get it back straight away.

Regards
Aaron

 

[Bob88]

Well this is an unexpected and great development! Once made whole, the task will then shift to doing an FFL import (ATF Form 6 filing, etc.).

Can anyone recommend an FFL that has done or would be willing to do an import?

 

[woodybrighton]

concrats some twisting of section 7 going on but an intelligent response to a problem.

 

[6_gunner]

Wow! I'm very surprised to hear that there is any legal way to export a handgun from England.

I was going to suggest that you "lose" it in whatever barn it was found in, rather than letting it rust in a watery grave.

Too bad you don't get to keep it, but I'm glad it won't have to be destroyed.

 

[ScottsGT]

Call the US Embassy and tell them that you "found" some US property left over from the war, and you would like a US official to make sure it makes it back to the states. Even if it doesn't go to your friend. Better than at the bottom of a lake or smelter. Maybe there is a Museum you can donate it to?

 

[Fred West]

unfortunatly handguns disappeared because somebody who should have had there licence revoked walked into a primary school and murdered half a dozen kids and there teacher

Actually it was 16 children. There was no way we were going to keep our handguns after that.

Fred.

 

[Bob88]

Well, it is the end of the road for me on this, I found an FFL in Montana that does import of handguns, great, right? Not so great. They told me that the US does not allow import of M1911's due to something about the US having manufactured these weapons, sending them over (to whom we do not know) and not getting paid for them. Why that would be the basis for a non-import restriction I have no idea, but assuming this is true (and a place that specifically does handgun imports would know, right?), it is the end of the road as far as getting this gun into the USA :-(

If for no other reason, historical, anyone have any poop on this aspect of WWII era M1911's?

Regards,

Bob