Any anti gun people on this forum?

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Anti-Gun? I think those are called "Wisconsin Sportsmen" :rolleyes:

I don't think hard core anti's are interested in debate. That's why they favor using the judiciary instead of the legislative branch. All the anti's I have debated with have simply dismissed me as a schill at best or a criminal at worst and have never visited the CDC website with me so that we can know what kind of stats we are really using to get results.

This is why you won't find a forum at GunGuys.com, or other anti websites.

Sorry for the crack about WI sportsmen ... just frustrated that sportsmen in WI keep voting in the anti's and it makes me wonder ...
 
I haven't seen any outright antigun types here. Though there are quite a few who aren't for the second amendment. You know the type they say they support our right to own guns but they've always got some group of people they don't think should have them. Or some kind of gun they don't think people should have. Or they want you to get government permission before you can have a certain type of gun.
 
Anti gun until I got the bug

I was anti gun most of my life, but only mildly so. I always appreciated target shooting and the sinister beauty of guns.
That all changed when I bought a rural cabin. A long repressed urge to do target shooting reared it's ugly head with with a great deal of force.

Now I am pro-gun and I already have had some heated arguments with morons who say "guns are evil!". People are evil, not guns...geez...what is wrong with their logic?

I am also taking alot of pride in handling my guns with a great deal of care and safety in order to impress those anti-gun people that we are responsible.

Overall, though, here in Canada, there is a general perception and assumption that because you like guns you are therefore a redneck white supremacist dude or some such.

What is really fun is to watch the face of an anti-gun person shoot your rifle at a target (after some convincing) and then politely and gleefully ask you if they can shoot some more with a grin from ear to ear.
 
According to this article....

there are 4000 accidental deaths due to drowning, lets write our representatives to ban water, it's very dangerous you know.


There are so many interesting ways to die in America, that we felt it was just wrong to limit it to the most frequent causes, which are all boring diseases and infections and stuff. (Except in Alaska, where suicide generally makes it into the top ten.) You want to hear about the terrible calamities, the tragic consequences of an error in judgment or a general lack of coordination. Do we ever disappoint?



10. Machinery
Deaths per year: 350

We can thank the farmers of America for the inclusion of this particular misfortune as a cause of death. Between corn-huskers and wheat-threshers, is it a wonder? The reason it is last on the list is that there just aren't enough people in farming these days. Ironically, they have all been replaced by machines. Hmm… accident, or deliberate act by wanton machinery? We may never know.


9. Medical & Surgical Complications and Misadventures
Deaths per year: 500

While we are incredibly insensitive people, we did not coin the term "medical misadventure"- the National Safety Council did. How is death by surgeon a "misadventure?" While we're not sure, we suspect that this number refers to elective surgeries that people undertake, such as liposuction. After all, the removal of a brain tumor is not usually considered to be an "adventure."


8. Poisoning by gases
Deaths per year: 700

There's nothing like the smell of napalm in the morning … In this category, you mostly have deaths by carbon monoxide poisoning due to faulty operation of a heating or cooking appliance, or a standing automobile. We assume, however, that the noxious gasses emitted by Uncle Albert qualify too



7. Firearms
Deaths per year: 1,500

We can thank our second amendment rights for all 1500 of these deaths; call it the "right to die" amendment. You probably don't want to know how many countries in the world do not even have "accidental death by firearms" on their top ten, or their top twenty. Suffice it to say that it's most of them. Of the 1500, you're looking at about 75% young males between the age of 14 and 25 (and getting younger every year), who unintentionally shoot themselves or someone else. For more information on the place of guns in society, click over to our pros and cons section.


6. Suffocation
Deaths per year: 3,300

Call this one the "Heimlich" section, as these deaths mostly resulted from blockages of the respiratory system by food or other objects.


5. Fires and burns
Deaths per year: 3,700

This would include deaths resulting from fires, such as smoke inhalation, falling beams, and sitting through Backdraft. Ironic that cancer is number two on the total deaths list, and a by-product of smoking is responsible for one of the top causes of accidental deaths. Are we getting the picture that this is a dangerous pastime? What kind of warnings do we have to put on these boxes, anyway?


4. Drowning
Deaths per year: 4,000

This includes all sorts of drownings in boat accidents and those resulting from swimming, playing in the water, falling in, or even having a bath. The human body is what, 70% water? And we begin our lives in a watery environment, there's lots of oxygen in water… what's the deal? Something for the scientists to work on.


3. Poisoning by solids and liquids
Deaths per year: 8,600

These would be all your commonly recognized poisons, as well as such items as mushrooms, shellfish, drug overdoses, and problems with medicines-which is a wide category, and why it is so high on the list. What they leave out is things like food poisoning or salmonella, which they classify as "disease deaths" and place on another list.


2. Falls
Deaths per year: 14,900

Then we come to the America's Funniest Home Videos category of accidental death, including falls from ladders, down stairs, over curbs, off buses, into manholes, and through plate glass windows.


1. Motor vehicle crashes
Deaths per year: 43,200

The winner, by a ridiculously huge (and ever-increasing) margin is: death by car wreck. Head on collision, sideswipe, single-vehicle smash-up, full car rollover, pedestrian takedown, choking on own carsick vomit, spontaneous combustion-the fun never stops for car owners. Try air travel instead; it's much safer. Do you see it anywhere on this list?


http://www.soyouwanna.com/site/toptens/accidents/accidents.html
 
on a more serious note....

What are the odds of dying?
The table below was prepared in response to frequent inquiries, especially from the media, asking questions such as, "What are the odds of being killed by lightning?" or "What are the chances of dying in a plane crash?"

The table has four columns. The first column gives the manner of injury such as motor-vehicle crash, fall, fire, etc. The second column gives the total number of deaths nationwide due to the manner of injury in 2003 (the latest year for which data are available). The third column gives the odds of dying in one year due to the manner of injury. The fourth column gives the lifetime odds of dying from the manner of injury. Statements about the odds or chances of dying from a given cause of death may be made as follows:

The odds of dying from (manner of injury) in 2003 were 1 in (value given in the one-year odds column).
The life-time odds of dying from (manner of injury) for a person born in 2003 were 1 in (value given in the lifetime odds column).
For example, referring to the first line of the table below:

The odds of dying from an injury in 2003 were 1 in 1,755.
The lifetime odds of dying from an injury for a person born in 2003 were 1 in 23.

The odds given below are statistical averages over the whole U.S. population and do not necessarily reflect the chances of death for a particular person from a particular external cause. Any individual's odds of dying from various external causes are affected by the activities in which they participate, where they live and drive, what kind of work they do, and other factors.

Source: National Safety Council estimates based on data from National Center for Health Statistics and U.S. Census Bureau. Deaths are classified on the basis of the Tenth Revision of the World Health Organization's "The International Classification of Diseases" (ICD). Numbers following titles refer to External Cause of Morbidity and Mortality classifications in ICD-10. One year odds are approximated by dividing the 2003 population (290,850,005) by the number of deaths. Lifetime odds are approximated by dividing the one-year odds by the life expectancy of a person born in 2003 (77.6 years).



Odds of Death Due to Injury, United States, 2003

Type of Accident or Manner of Injury Deaths One Year Odds Lifetime Odds

http://www.nsc.org/lrs/statinfo/odds.htm


According to this you have 16 times more chance of being assaulted by someone with a weapon than you do getting hurt by accident.

......................................Deaths...........One Year Odds.....Lifetime Odds

Assault by firearm.................11,920.........24,400.........314
Assault by sharp object...........2,049........141,947......1,829
Firearms accidental discharge.....730.........398,425......5,134
 
I just found this forum because someone I very very vaguely know posts here (no names, you'll probably figure out why). So, first, the admission of guilt - I was born in socialist Sweden and live in socialist Canada (and like it). I don't own a gun, and I only know one person who does (a long gun, not a handgun, just as an heirloom). I live in a big city, and the police are always just a few minutes away, so I feel very safe even without a gun.

Having said that, I'm not anti-gun. If you handle your weapons responsibly and do your best to ensure that they aren't stolen from you, more power to you! If there was a fair and reliable way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, then I'd be all for it, but I think that's true for everyone here. Present gun control measures are not very fair; they punish the majority of gun enthusiasts for the actions of a few criminals who aren't affected by those measures anyway.
 
I live in a big city, and the police are always just a few minutes away, so I feel very safe even without a gun.

That didn't count when there was a shootout at the Eaton Center last Christmas. Police were there, but not before a bunch of people were killed. I lived in Toronto for a year and a half. You have a false sense of security.
 
I'm not sure which shooting you're talking about... there was one near the Eaton Centre in April 2005 where 3 people were injured, but no one died. That's hardly a false sense of security. I wouldn't expect a city of 5.7 million people to have absolutely no gun crime.
 
having tons of guns, numerical superiority, the element of surprise, and years of government training didn't help 7 FBI agents on April 11, 1986.

are you implying your ccw gives you real security? i mean really, what's the point in hacking on someone's sense of security if you're only going to replace one poor solution with another one?
 
I know at least ONE person died in the Eaton Centre shootout. It was a 14 year old girl. I believe there were 2 more who died from their wounds and something like ~15 people sustained injuries. Toronto is a lovely city, but it's not as safe as everyone portrays it to be. According to the media, you'd think Toronto was a violence-free wonderland. It's NOT the case. There was also a murder in the apartment building where I lived (on Bloor, near the ROM). When I refer to false sense of security, I mean that most people believe that there is NO violence in Toronto, which is BS. Toronto doesn't have the high number of murders NYC does, but Toronto is also less populated. Percentage wise, violent crime is rather high. Don't believe me? One word... Scarborough.
 
So let's say an attacker or robber/burglar enters your home and has a big knife which he wants to use to kill you while you are in your bed, and he is coming down the hallway. If you could, would you: a) Reason with the said attacker explaining that he needs to wait until police arrive to prevent the attack? b) Call police and tell them to hurry before you get killed? c) Reach in you nightstand and grab your .357 revolver?

You could always go to the closet and get out that LEO you stashed in there behind that big pile of shoes!
 
What are the odds of dying?

*must resist*

"On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero." :p

The safest things people could do would be to (a) exercise regularly, (b) minimize smoking, and (c) never drive in another vehicle ever again. All in favor of banning cars....

So let's say an attacker or robber/burglar enters your home and has a big knife which he wants to use to kill you while you are in your bed, and he is coming down the hallway. If you could, would you: a) Reason with the said attacker explaining that he needs to wait until police arrive to prevent the attack? b) Call police and tell them to hurry before you get killed? c) Reach in you nightstand and grab your .357 revolver?

How about

d) Calmly say, that's not a knife...THIS is a knife

and pull out a bigger knife :D Sorry, I have a knife collection left over from high school.
 
My ex-wife gave me one of those "Rambo" copycat knifes that were common staples at swap meets and such 15 or 20 years ago. I attempted to use it once to cut through some small brush in my backyard and the darned thing fell apart in my hands. So that wouldn't have been any of my choices for an alternative to my firearms. :)
 
My ex-wife gave me one of those "Rambo" copycat knifes that were common staples at swap meets and such 15 or 20 years ago. I attempted to use it once to cut through some small brush in my backyard and the darned thing fell apart in my hands. So that wouldn't have been any of my choices for an alternative to my firearms

I wasn't really serious... The best alternative to guns IMHO is a good solid maglite or baseball bat

Most of my knives are Spydercos, which are pricey but high quality. Their Civilian model would make one h*** of a weapon retention tool, provided of course you're dexterous enough to open one-handed under stress.
 
Cosmoline said:
I used to be a hard-core anti, about 15 years ago.
<Jaw drops wide open>

Now there is a confession that I'm more than surprised at, but totally admire.

Motivates this story.

I started "hunting" at 9 with a bb gun, got the pellet rifle at 11, a .22 at 13,
then came the shotgun, then the deer rifle...all before 20.

In my late 30's, due to hanging out with too many left leaning swine,
I became convinced that guns were the root of evil.

I had sold all but my deer rifle (Marlin 336 in .35). During grad school,
in a bout of financial desparation, I finally sold it, too.

Roll tape forward 6 weeks.

Still in grad school, living in "the student ghetto". Friday night after a night in the science lab, just laying down for a long rest. Heard what I later realized was a dude, cracked out on (angel dust? coke? speed? ...) trying to rip the gate off my fence. He couldn't, so just came over the top. Next he got up in my window with my dog barking her ass off at him, and pounded on it.

Meanwhile, I'm standing there in my skivvies, baseball bat in hand,
on 911 asking for help with a desparate note in my voice.

The next day (Saturday), I went to the local gun shop to buy a Taurus .38 snubby,
which I replaced soon there after with a 9mm.

Now, have 9mm (Kahr K9), 12 ga (see user name) and several others.

Even anti's can wise up when their life is on the line.

<Hmm...>
 
A few years ago here in Phoenix, one, and maybe two (!), children died from drowning ... in buckets ! You can imagine my surprise that there were no calls to outlaw buckets, or at least to fence in every bucket the way there are always calls to fence in every swimming pool.
 
Who's all for the next fanatical lobby, the "Bucket Ban"? We could add it to the Brady bill and make it, "The Brady Bucket Bill"!!!

WHO'S WITH ME?

No more buckets!
Buckets kill!
 
Forget buckets...

Forget about buckets..I have always been of the mindset that the most dangerous thing in the world is stupidity. Everytime you see someone get injured doing something stupid and careless just think how many could be saved if we outlawed stupid people. The least we could do is make them wear warning signs that say "CAUTION: STUPID PERSON". When they went to gun stores the owners could say "sorry, I can't sell to you because of your sign", when they went to take drivers tests the instructor would know they can't be trusted with anything as dangerous and a motor vehicle, and so forth and so forth.

Then, once the problem is addressed, we could work on prevention. Like requiring mandatory condom use for stupid people...because they tend to breed like bunnies. :)
 
I was actually encouraged by the attitude of the hippies. Most said they were "personally anti-gun" but that the decision should be made by each individual. I have no problem with that line of thinking. If they don't want a gun, that's fine with me. Just don't tell me that I can't have one.

Didn't I see a statistic a few years back about more people dying from medical mistakes than from firearms accidents? Ban all doctors!
 
Cosmoline said:
I used to be a hard-core anti, about 15 years ago. The thing that changed me was simple--KNOWLEDGE. I wasn't persuaded by political arguments at all, I was persuaded as I learned more about firearms and used them more. Then, and only then, did I realize the extent to which I had been lied to

Whoa.

I think the closest thing to an attempt at an anti-gun forum was Michael Moore's website's forums, which had a Bowling for Columbine section. Cosmoline was the biggest muckraker there! Apparently it got closed down after a while--I was only there a few months so I don't know how long it lasted.

What I thought was funniest about the forum was that, after only a month or two, the moderators were already posting stickies saying, "No more threads asking what round is best for giant spiders!"
 
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