Any benefits of a SA over DA revolver?

[TargetTerror]

Is there any real benfit to a modern SA revolver over a modern DA? With a DA, you can still cock the hammer and fire in SA, so there is no real benefit to the SA there. Plus, with the DA you have the option of firing in DA and reloading is MUCH faster.

One thing I have heard in favor of SAs is that they tend to be very strong. Eg, the Ruger Blackhawks are renowned for taking a steady diet of magnum loads. But is it really that much stronger than say a S&W large frame?

 

[Old Fuff]

It depends on how you define "strong."

In a double-action, hand ejector revolver the cylinder is attached to a hinge (usually called a “yoke” or “crane”) on which the cylinder can be swung to the left for loading or unloading. While the frame is solid (as opposed to a top-break) it is still weaker then a single-action revolver, and any looseness between the frame and yoke/crane can cause the chambers to be misaligned with the bore.

A single-action frame has the cylinder turning on a heavy rod (called the “basepin,”) that is mounted to the frame through two holes, one in the front, and one at the back of the frame. It is next to impossible to knock the cylinder out of alignment.

In a weapon’s context, being able to shoot in the double-action mode can be critically important, and the relatively quick reloading offered by the hand-ejector system is important too. In a outdoor/hunting/target shooting revolver these features are less necessary, and the strength and simplicity of the single-action may be more advantageous.

It might also be noted that Freedom Arms Co. revolvers, which are reputed to be the most accurate production revolvers on the market, are built on a single-action platform.

It boils down to making a choice based on whatever purpose you have in mind.

 

[Steve C]

You have already listed a few advantages of the SA. The SA can be tuned to a much lighter trigger than a DA without sacrificing reliability in ammo ignition. The modern SA generally fills the role of target and hunting handguns. With fewer moving parts and cylinder that remains fixed in the frame they don't suffer as much from the battering of magnum cartridges.

 

[PrimaryB]

I have to agree with the posters above. The question, is this for hunting or defense? Your hunting game, single is the way to go. If game is hunting you, DA perhaps is the way to go. I'm not nearly as proficient as a shooter as some of these guys so I benefit from a single action. If I were really good and proficient with a DA I might consider that a primary hunting gun but I don't have 4 legged bear around where I live. Just 2 legged bear. I'm only gonna get one shot off anyways. My New Model Super Blackhawk is scoped is the reason why. Even if it wasn't I'm not about to go popping off rds at a fleeing deer. Good luck in your choice. Single action guns have a lot of history or connections to the past but they are not obsolete by any means. They are just more or less advantageous in certain situations.

 

[Archer1945]

For many years a DA was no where nearly as strong as a SA but with modern metallurgy and manufacturing techniques that is no longer true. We now have DAs capable of firing ammunition which just a few years ago would have given even the best of the SAs a problem. For general use a DA is hard to beat, if you're primarily interested in hunting or informal plinking the SA might be the best way to go because they are usually slightly less expensive. It all depends on what you want to do, besides you can get get one now and the other later. Never can have too many revolvers. Or semi-autos, rifles or shotguns, especially if you can justify them to the spouse.

 

[jad0110]

A single-action frame has the cylinder turning on a heavy rod (called the “basepin,”) that is mounted to the frame through two holes, one in the front, and one at the back of the frame. It is next to impossible to knock the cylinder out of alignment.

As Fuff pointed out, this feature also makes the average SA more accurate than the average DA.

 

[Bezoar]

Conservation of cartridges. One trigger pull on a SA will fire the gun once if the hammer is cocked. A DA will fire until all cartridges are fired.

That fact makes the single action popular for horseback, and on atvs and snowmobiles as a sudden jerk of horse or vehicle can easily make every muscle in gun arm and hand flex making it fire a double tap.

This is questionable information.^^^^^ A DA revolver does not just fire off all of the cartridges in one trigger pull. My DA revolvers are fired with consecutive puls of a fairly long trigger pull, not the ease of firing depicted above. Please check your info.

Sorry that i left out a few words from the article by Ayoob. it seems that, according to his article, that some people on a horse will indeed jerk their trigger finger again when the horse starts jumping around, that makes the user PULL THE TRIGGER again, and if its a DA gun, it will fire again, and the process with repeat until the horse stops jumping around and the gun user stops operating the DA mechanism on his or her gun.

 

[Jim March]

With a lot of practice, the SA action is the fastest to first shot. In the right hands it's still an excellent defensive weapon.

The grip shapes used typically "roll in the hand". The original design was created for one-handed fire on horseback. They tend to excel at controlling big power for a given weight.

You REALLY need to see this video of an SA master shooter firing a custom .500 SA revolver one handed:

http://www.customsixguns.net/

We've all seen the various YouTube videos of people shooting big power and getting hurt or watch the gun fly away or both. Now watch how it's really done.

 

[jsmosby]

I agree with Mr. March's comments.

I prefer SA over DA because I am a one-handed shooter. SA is more accurate than DA because the latter is all over the place as distance increases due to a heavier trigger tension. I was trained to shoot one-handed by my father who was a WWII Marine officer.

I will be applying for a CCW permit soon. I am debating about carrying a .45 Blackhawk 4 5/8" (SA) with a .44 Special Bulldog 3" as a backup. I am comfortable with SAs since I have been shooting them for over 30 years. I have held two burglars at gun point in my house with a cocked .45 Blackhawk 7 1/2". I have also done open carry in Arizona with SA. Since I am moving to a cold winter climate, concealability with a 4 5/8" will not be a problem for part of the year. When it is, I'll just carry the Bulldog.

I generally have my SAs "smithed" so that I can cock the hammer without moving the barrel appreciably out-of-line, and so the trigger tension is 3-4 pounds (for accuracy).

Good luck finding quality DAs that fire .45 ACP or .45 Colt. There aren't many. There are, however, a lot of SAs that do. The .45 is a proven man-stopper. That's why the Marine Corps has been fighting to keep it for elite units.

Finally, on a historical note, Wyatt Earp carried a .45 Colt SAA as late as 1915 when he was doing special jobs for the LAPD. Earp had carried a DA in the 1890s (San Francisco prize fight), but apparently preferred SAs. He typically carried his pistol in his clothing pockets (OK Corral and San Francisco) so that he could pull it quickly without fumbling with a coat and a holster. Earp prized accuracy.

 

[SnWnMe]

Conservation of cartridges. One trigger pull on a SA will fire the gun once if the hammer is cocked. A DA will fire until all cartridges are fired.

That fact makes the single action popular for horseback, and on atvs and snowmobiles as a sudden jerk of horse or vehicle can easily make every muscle in gun arm and hand flex making it fire a double tap.

 

[Jim March]

Yeah...Bezoar, I wasn't going to say anything but...you need to fire a DA wheelgun. Trust me, it doesn't work like you're describing.

 

[RON in PA]

Bezoar, you are taking about semi-autos aren't you. Have you ever shot a DA revolver?

Other than nostalga or for hunting there is no need for SA revolvers. If you practice enough, shooting the DA revolver DA only leads to excellent accuracy. I've gotten to the point where I shoot DA exclusively and could live without the SA trigger pull.

 

[Cosmoline]

Size and weight are also factors. A Super Blackhawk or Freedom Arms will deliver magnum firepower with considerably less bulk and weight than a Super Redhawk or supersized Smith.

And the trigger, while noted above, deserves to be mentioned again. Even the slickest DA can't compare with a SA's trigger. For longer range shots while hunting this is no small factor.

Also, the cost difference can be enormous. A Redhawk or SRH will run you far more than a Blackhawk or SBH. And the big bore DA Smiths & Colts are also quite expensive. The reason is pretty simple. The big double actions require more fitting and more material. Compare an old model blackhawk disassembled with a big bore double action diassembled and you'll see what I mean.

 

[Brian Williams]

I added a warning of misinformation in Bezoar's post, it does sound like he is talking about full auto, not SA/DA. Kindly, Gently instruct him in a manner worthy of THR

 

[jad0110]

Now, I have heard other THR members say that riding horseback with a DA revolver can jostle the cylinder open.

I have no experience with the personally, but maybe others have. This would appear to be another SA advantage.

 

[Jim March]

Hmmm...horseback with a DA...

Yeah, depending on release type.

The Dan Wesson release at the front of the crane I would guess is not a big issue. The worst would be the Ruger "button release". The forward-slide-releases of the S&W/Taurus/Charter type...dunno. I would guess somewhere in the middle.

The Colt pull-release has more surface area to "grab" by accident than most push-types, and more of a "lip".

The best would be the Taurus "Raging" series with double release latches.

Esp. with the Ruger system, I can see it happening.

Also: any issue likely to affect horsemen can also affect bikers .

 

[Majic]

That fact makes the single action popular for horseback, and on atvs and snowmobiles as a sudden jerk of horse or vehicle can easily make every muscle in gun arm and hand flex making it fire a double tap.

Why would you be firing a handgun while driving an ATV or snowmobile?

 

[MCgunner]

My main reason for preferring SA revolvers over DA for outdoor use, hiking, general carry is that a POWERFUL gun like the Ruger Blackhawks in .44 mag or .45 Colt with a 4 5/8" barrel are typically stronger than an equal weight handgun in a DA. You can load the .45 Colt in a Blackhawk to levels you can't do in an N frame Smith, both about 40 ounce guns. You can move up to the Redhawk/X frame size guns, but then you're way heavier than a Blackhawk.

The Freedom Arms .454 is a heck of a revolver for bear country hiking and the five shot custom Blackhawks from John Linebaugh redefine light weight power for the hiker/outdoorsman in wild country. If I lived in Alaska, I'd send a Blackhawk to Linebaugh for the treatment with probably a 5 1/2 inch barrel. Such a gun would be very comforting on the hip while salmon fishing in Alaska. But, my .45 Colt is plenty for my lower 48 needs.

And, regarding grip shape, all I need to is fire a hot .45 Colt from my Contender, then from my Ruger. The Contender is a heavier gun, but it HURTS to shoot hot stuff out of it, slams the web of the hand. The Ruger just rolls up and take the sting away.

 

[Jim March]

Majic: I think the issue with horseback is that while the gun is holstered, if it's at your side and your legs are all splayed out around the grossly oversize doggie, the area of the gun where the DA latch release is gets pressed into your belt.

Which might indeed cause the latch to release during movement.

Then you pull the gun and find the crane flopped open, and possibly even shells flying loose. This is not conducive to effective self defense.

 

[jad0110]

Why would you be firing a handgun while driving an ATV or snowmobile?

Re-creating the opening sequence of True Lies perhaps ?

 

[Confederate]

If you're talking about target shooting or hunting, the single-action does have some advantages if you enjoy shooting them. If you're talking defense, that's another matter. Also, if you're talking heavy caliber, it even compounds the problem.

In defense situations, Massad Ayoob says that prosecutors often try to prove you accidentally pulled the trigger. This is more of an issue with a DA, though. (If you have a SA, what other choice did you have except to cock the gun before firing?) With heavy recoiling calibers, SA often has the advantage of strength unless you're limiting your choice to Rugers. Then it's more of a preference of grips than anything else because who, after all, shoots their .44 mags DA?

I prefer DA overall. But I have this Ruger Single-Six that I love....

 

[lawson]

While I like both, there is just something about shooting a single action .45.

My old model Vaquero was slicked up by it's previous owner for cowboy action, so it's got a nice light trigger pull. It's a very comfortable design to shoot, even with hot .45 loads there is very little muzzle flip and felt recoil. If you practice shooting single action, follow-up shots can be very quick.

The only real disadvantage a Colt SAA style gun will have against a swing-out DA is the reloading speed. With a double action, being able to eject all the empties simultaneously is a big plus.

I shoot revolvers almost exclusively, and my SA and DA revolvers both get about equal amounts of range time. It is not any slower to shoot an SA revolver, considering the control required for accurate double action shots.