Any experience with muzzle-loading shotguns?

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Preacherman

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Hi, folks. I'm posting this in the Shotgun forum, but will post a link to it in the Blackpowder forum as well, to address both groups.

Has anyone here got any experience with the reproduction blackpowder muzzle-loading shotguns that are available (for example, see here).


p006386hz01.jpg


I'm particularly interested in how well they pattern with various loads: choke options (Cabela's offers screw-in chokes, but do other suppliers have them on their shotguns?): effective range: use of a solid projectile (e.g. musket-ball type, or home-cast "slug") instead of shot loads: etc.

Fire away! :D
 
I'm glad you asked these questions and posted that pic! I rec'd my catalog as well.
I also like the Rifle pictured under the Shotgun on same page (53). :D

Bunch of years ago I actually shot a BP Dbl SG. Fella loaded it and said "here". Wings cupped, feet down...mount , swing ,BANG!... *cough* *grin* "Where'd it fall?" *cough*. * grin* :D

I have no idea what make or model of SG. I am dumb when it comes to BP , figured " a shotgun is a shotgun - I can do this". I did , greenheads went "splat"! He loaded I shot and he shot my shotgun...We were being invaded / attacked by greenheads...no time to get a BP lesson you understand.

I had a ball, fun factor is w-a-y up there.

The thought crossed my mind...ummm, what if / wonder - if these things shoot ball as well as shot.
 
I've run across a few here and there. Some replicas, some originals. A few things in common.

All the doubles I've tried were sweet in the hands. Nice balance, and very pointable. I found the hammers a bit of a distraction.

Some repros are bored so that one can use plastic wads and almost duplicate the performance of modern stuff. Dixie Gun Works carries lots of shot flasks and so on for a complete setup.

Reloading these is a slow process. All the same, some types of hunting do not require high volume or fast repeat shots.

The late Russell Annabel wrote about his experiences shooting a ML shotgun from Mexico to Alaska. IIRC, he used an 11 gauge double for geese.
 
Preacherman:

I don't have any direct experience with a BP shotgun, but I will relate a semi-funny story from my [frequently] mis-spent youth...

Hunting/school buddy Ron lived out on the farm, about 5 miles outside of town. One of his 'chores' was to keep the crows & other critters out of the corn. His dad told him "You can't use your 870 Rem for that, 12Ga shells are too expensive. Use Gramps gun" Wellllllll it seems that "Gramps" gun was a BP, about like your pic.

Ron hated all the cleaning & stuff required to keep the charcoal burner useful, so he decided to try a new wad system....BP charge, LARGE wad of steel wool over powder, shot charge, and another LARGE highly compressed wad of steel wool. Ron figured the steel wool would 'scrub the bore' with each shot. Worked pretty good, too, until Ron looked back one day, and saw through the flames & smoke that he was making 7 acres of popcorn!
 
I've got a TC New Englander single barrel 12 ga. I have used it for rabbits and pheasants with quite good results. I like the SxS replicas that are available these days but haven't had a chance to shoot one yet.

If you get one, my usual load is 90 grains of 2f GOEX with a shot charge of the same volume. IOW use the same measure for both shot and powder.

Some people use the same wad over the shot charge as over powder, but I like to use a 1/16 inch cork(gasket material) wad that I cut out with a sharpened piece of 3/4 inch pipe. It breaks up when fired and doesn't disrupt the shot string. Not sure if they'd withstand recoil on the unfired side of a SxS though.

You can use regular shot cup style wads, old style felt, or even just 1/2 a paper towel wadded up and tamped over the powder charge. No need for high tech, I guess.

Don in Ohio
 
These guys cannot seem to deliver the British BP pistols I have been craving

http://www.gosea.com/loyalistarms/

But they claim to have flintlock BLUNDERBUSSES often in stock, as well as numerous BP repros of famous combat arms such as the Brown Bess and many more. Nice thing about any of these is that they can fire shot as well. Fowlers and shotguns most certainly could fire balls, but the long barreled muskets were a bit more accurate. Modern shotguns can use ball loads with the right shotcup as a sabot. I use the .662 roundball in my SPAS 12 and it's like a magnum musket with the penetration of a SS109 round.

I have a pair of Murdoch 51 caliber pistols I am about to display, but have not shot them yet. Gotta do that. I also have a shot-snake as pictured in the linked article, and plan to display it with a brass barreled blunderbuss over the mantle of my dojo/arms room. It's getting a major remodel (stone walls and hearth) and I have numerous ancient arms and replicas to display, even armor. I love the matchlocks too and want one if I could find the right European replica
 
Mine is a 12 ga Pedersoli Coach gun. open chokes in both bores. With 90 gr of powder and an oz. and a quarter of shot you can go through a 16 pound bag in a hurry. As far as busting clays I almost never get a double as the smoke the thing generates is well... impressive. There is also a loud KA-WHOOSH as it goes off that make sthe range officer come running.

Oh, its you... again!

Yep, it's me. On wads, fiber and plastic. I had this neat idea that I could use scotch tape to seal shot into a plastic wad, the force of the powder charge would bust the tape and all would be groovy.

So at 10 yards on a patterning target I let barrel #1 fly.. resulting in a 12 ga. hole with 3 pin pricks of #8 shot around the hole.. I had created the BP 12 ga. Glaser slug.. oops. At the same range 10 yards with oh say.. (9) .36 caliber balls in each barrel I was getting cantelope-sized patterns. With star washers or dimes (yeah I am crazy) the pattern opens up a lot more. Sometimes the dimes hit in a solid column, like a slug. Bottom line is I shoy up a LOT of my .36 cal balls, and my Colt Navy wasn't happy about it.

Pedersoli makes a NICE shotgun. The barrels are fluid steel, well regulated and the triggers are excellent. They balance well, are lightwieght and provide hours and hours of fun.

I use fiber wads over my powder, and a half of a fiber wad over my shot, I usually use blue and gray brand.
 
Dr.Rob,
Thanks !
You are not crazy, crazy is me trying dimes, marbles, ball bearings in a old H&R Topper single shot...see you are not crazy. :)

I am un-educated on BP , but I understand the getting a double as I mentioned in my first reply. ( *cough* ...where did it fall?)

Patterns from open bores sounds great! Great...Preacherman starts this thing and you have great info. Humm...you have a pic of yours? What is the weight and dimensions?.

Thanks , I'm learning stuff...and thinking....scheming...rationalizing....
 
I have a pic somewhere or other. Seems like a shame on the shotgun boards all we ever see are tacti-cool rigs.

Mine has "in the white" barrels, a pain to keep rust free but they look cool, all of the other parts, except the buttplate are similarly finished the wood is dark, like cherry.. it's cool. Always get LOTS of compliments on it.

Bought it for 200 bucks second hand at a gun show. I even took it pheasant hunting once. I'm usually the only guy at the Rendezvous with one.

Pretty sure the Cabela's guns are Pedersolis.
 
Here's one of my Murdoch .51 flints as I will display it

I have yet to inset the foam for the piece, but it will be with it's mate and several Scottish Jacobite era and Revolutionary era replicas over my mantle, along with Scottish swords and shields (I make my own shields for re-enactment)

The neat thing is that although I have a premium 2 cavity ball mold for them, they will fire SHOT as well. This early "glaser" would have been used point blank against "ruffians" , perhaps in the local tavern :D
 

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Dr.Rob ,

So the pic in the original thread could very well a Pedersoli ?

Hey I never got into "t" stuff...blue and wood for me. I think I'm going backwards on stuff. Sheesh been shooting single shot shotguns for fun again...guess BP is next - huh?

If you would be so kind to post a pic and more info, I for one would be most appreciative.

Maybe I need to peruse the BP forum - huh? Advise which forum is appropriate and I would like to hear and read more about BP shotguns.

Don't ask me why this interests me..."just because". :p
 
That gun in Preacherman's post is a Pedersoli. I used to have a 12 gauge SxS that looked just like it. I had to sell it for financial reasons. :banghead:

Mine had cylinder bored barrels, IIRC. I think it was made before they offered choke tubes. I shot it with 90 grains of 2Fg black powder and an equal volume of #7-1/2 shot. I used an over-powder card wad, a fiber cushion wad, and then over the shot I put a half-thickness card wad that I made by splitting a regular card wad with a knife. The whole sheband was touched off with number 11 caps.

I never did, but as a cylinder bore gun, there's no reason that you couldn't shoot a patched round ball or even Foster slugs from it.

I could hit better with that smokepole than any other shotgun I've tried. I miss that gun, I need to get a replacement.
 
I have my greatgreatgrandfather's ML shotgun circa 1850ish (appears to be 12 ga.) on my library/home office wall as I type this. I feel inspired to try it out!:D Trip to the gunsmith first, no???

As well, I simply MUST go out and get a blunderbuss. Looks like a LOT of fun.:D
 
El Tejon, correct!

A note about blunderbusses (Blunderbi?). The cast brass barrels one sees are more for decoration than use, though lots are capable of being fired.

The expanded muzzle was to speed reloading in a crisis,not to spread the shot.

A guy I knew a while back had one of about 12 gauge,with a percussion lock. His load of 6 36 caliber pistol balls and 60 gr of FF,IIRC, was impressive in effect and smoke.
 
BP Shotgun

I had two BP shotguns,. One was a Navy Arms, double twelve, that looked like the one in your photo. The other was an O/U Beretta, 12 ga.. Both shot very well. Used them both on dove and pheasant. Also a lot of fun on shooting crows. The Beretta was a well made gun, so I bought a round ball mould( I may still have it somewhere) and used it to hunt deer during Maryland's BP season. Was about 71 cal. and I took a decent buck with it. After moving to Va., I found out that Va. only allows you to use a single shot BP gun, so I ended up selling both of the shotguns.
Go ahead and buy that shotgun. It is really a lot of fun. If you get into a mess of crow, or dove, and you get one shot off, you suddenly realize you have a problem. You can see nothing of your target, so you have to decide to reload the one empty barrel, or wait for a second shot.
Yeah, they are kinda interesting.
 
You've probably a good smith known to the buckskinners in your area, used to dealing with relics, replicas and wrecks. He may start by X raying the barrels to see if there's an old load lurking in there.A startling number of old MLs have just that.

Of course, one can use the ramrod to see if there's SOMETHING down there, a good start....

Ask around,there's a number of ML organizations aorund, or get hold of a copy of Muzzle Blasts, the official magazine for the NMLRA and phone the advertisers.
 
effective range: use of a solid projectile
Click to expand...

Mine is good out to about 65 yards with patched roundballs. Barrels cross over. Right barrel hitting to the left of point of aim and the left hitting to the right. About a 6 inch spread at that distance. There isn't any drop at that range but you have to aim about 20 feet high to make one drop in where you want it at ~150 yards. :D A greased patch slides down those smooth bores a lot easier than a rifled barrel. That's the main reason I love em, but they don't seem to kick as bad to me coming back out the other end to me either.

For birdshot I just split one of those big thick fiber wads in two and use one under and one over the shot. I've taken quite a bit of game with mine. Customary for me to squat down to look under the huge white cloud to see if I can get a second shot at the critter. Bummer when there is no wind. Ya gotta listen for em to drop. It's not the hand of God but I've yet to complain about knockdown power on anything I've hit.

I once pulled both barrels at the same time on a broadside deer. About knocked me off the pail I was stting on! It was like a 10 yard shot. I don't recommend that. My balls must have kissed at the end of the barrel. One went through both front legs down low and the other hit up high just in front of the rear legs. Neither within 2 feet of my aim point. After listening to it run off I had to track that poor critter 3/4 of a mile. Great eatin though. A well placed shot with one of these should drop a deer just as quick as any 30-06. Those big round balls don't slow down for much. I've never recovered one inside an animal.
 
Ok I promised, now that my camera is working again...

Here is my Pedersoli 12 ga. double alongside a Colt Signature series Navy .36.
 

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Dr.Rob

Thank You sir!

Those are awesome! Beautiful wood. Great looking firearms!

Dr. Rob, you are going to have to start a new thread and tell us about loads, patterns, experiences...etc.

I'm going to have to learn about BP and that shotgun sure looks like fun and great way to learn.
 
I get more compliments on that old double than on any other firearm I own.

It's a LOT of fun to shoot, too.
 
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