Any Mauser Experts?

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CelticArmory

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I have a M1938 Turkish Mauser that I've been fixing up for a customer after the seller on Gunbroker shipped it will insufficient packing and broke the stock. Now that I've gotten everything all fixed up I finally received my headspace gauges in the mail and went to check it. It's supposed to be an 8mm and the bore measures to about the right diameter for 8mm, but it won't seat my 8mm GO gauge. The bolt handle moves only about 30% into battery before it stops. It does seat the 7mm GO gauge.

So here's my Q. Is there enough of a similarity between bolts for a 7mm and 8mm for the 7mm to function in the 8mm rifle but enough of a difference that it won't seat the 8mm round?

OR Is the 7mm bolt and 8mm bolt supposed to be the same?

I know there is a slight difference in case length and the case base is the same diameter.
 
The bore at the end of the barrel where I can measure it goes from .310-.325. The 8mm bullet is .323 in diameter. 7.65 and 7mm are considerably smaller. I've also noted a difference in the lengths of my headspace gauges. Again the case length is different between the two rounds. The bolt doesn't match the rifle for SN, so the only thing I can think of is that the bolt doesn't match the caliber. Otherwise the bolt should seat on the 8mm.
 
The bolt doesn't match the rifle for SN, so the only thing I can think of is that the bolt doesn't match the caliber.
Click to expand...
All Mauser 98 STANDARD length actions use the same bolt(assuming not modified for magnum cartridge).
 
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Ok, well, I have an Interarms Mark X in 300 SBY Mag that uses the Mauser 98 action. I put that bolt in the M1938 and it did seat the 8mm GO gauge but not the FIELD or NO-GO.
 
Sounds like almost time for a chamber cast. :)

If you keep working on the assumption that it is an 8x57 and are somehow able to chamber a round it could be a disaster if it is actually some other caliber and the two don't mix well when you pull the trigger.

A millitary rifle that won't chamber the round it is supposed to be built for dosen't sound right. I'd be very leery about it's history and want to check it out VERY carefully before I put my cheek to the stock and trip the trigger.
 
Did you strip the bolt before trying the gauges? Are you sure there is no broken case in the chamber? I agree with Old Shooter, you want to know for sure instead of guessing.
 
If the bolt numbers don't match the action then there is a good chance that it's just the result of arsenal mismatching. I've recieved more rifles that wouldn't close on a gauge than I have that had too much headspace. All of them would close on a round though. I've fired them after making sure they were chambered for the correct round. The tight chambers seem to be more accurate.
 
Dried cosmoline in the chamber is very difficult to remove sometimes, and can give you a false fit on your HS gauge.
All matching numbers on Turks are quite rare, so just make sure that the bolt that came with it is correct for head space. The bolt needs to be stripped for proper gauge use.

Here's a link to head space 8mm Mauser info from Forster.

http://www.forsterproducts.com/store.asp?pid=26986

My head space gauge is the newer version and it's what I use for my Turk rifles.



NCsmitty
 
Did you strip the bolt before trying the gauges?
Click to expand...

+1.

I don't know your experience level, please don't be offended.

Checking headspace with extractors/ejectors, etc. in play is fruitless.
 
Checking headspace with extractors/ejectors, etc. in play is fruitless.
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I used to believe that until I did my own comparison study. I found a bolt/chamber checked exactly the same with or without the extractor (talking Mauser only here) in place. I now remove the striker assembly but leave the extractor in place.
 
Jimmy, I was speaking in general of course.

You're quite right; if you know what you're doing the Mauser headspace can be checked with the extractor on place. My comment was mostly directed at rifles with plunger ejectors like the M1, AR15, etc. :)
 
And I agree that a chamber cast makes sense.

They are cheap & easy and remove all doubt about the chamber dimensions.
 
a chamber cast makes sense.
Click to expand...
It does and I recommend it to others to do. I, however would clean the chamber and locking lug recesses to ensure there was nothing in there and dress up the chamber with a finishing reamer. If the bore slugged .323 +/-. It would be all that would be needed. The mismatched bolt,in all likelyhood,is responsible for the overly tight chamber. As I say I would not tell anyone else to do that but I am not overly cautious in this respect.
 
My experience level is AGI certified professional gunsmith with 2 years of actual working experience. (I know, not much but everyone has to start somewhere) I check headspace 3 ways from sunday. I usually start with the extractor on. The gauge slips under the extractor in the same manner as a round. I do know to remove plunger ejectors for rifles like the AR. I also remove the extractor for a second test. Though with Mausers the extractor band makes that a major pain (and I ended up breaking his band while removing it. Don't worry, I replaced it on my own dime.)

I'll be meeting with the customer tomorrow and checking with actual ammunition and empty cases (if he brings them). If the rifle won't seat them I'll do a chamber casting. As it is right now the 8mm go gauge will go in and the bolt will rotate about half way into battery. So the tightness is only a few thousandths.

Don't worry about offending me by asking my experience level. I'd rather hear that question than be called names. The only reason I brought this up is that I've never seen a chamber this tight.

Oh, and it's been cleaned thoroughly, twice. First I ran a few gallons of boiling water and plenty of Simple green to get all the cosmo out after running a patch through to push out the majority of the glop. My cleaning process is pretty complete.
 
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Well all right then, that's a solid background. :)

That is one tight chamber! If everything is as it seems, you have a long bolt.

Do you have an 8x57JS finish reamer?
 
No, I have no finish reamers. I'm not wealthy enough to just buy all the tools I want (lol, I want a LOT). I figured if I couldn't get a standard round to seat without trouble then I'd take a casting and get whatever tools needed after measuring things. I did some measuring and comparing between the bolt for my Mark X and the one with this and there are some differences. Also the Turk bolt face is quite rough. It could just need to have the bolt lugs lapped in and have the bolt face polished up too.
 
Ok, well I polished up the bolt face first with a round flat stone for my Foredom tool and then the buffing wheel. It will seat the GO gauge, but not the others. The GO gauge is still very tight, but at least it will fully seat. The bolt face was very rough, like it had never been fired, and there were lots of milling grooves in it. Now it is smooth and even.
 
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