Any reason for buying the cheap pot metal guns anymore?

[Ed Ames]

He's trying to imply that cheap guns often don't work, while pricey ones always do.

Actually, he's trying to imply that people who don't spend as much don't value their lives as much. This is a common idea, not just in guns.

If he is willing to spend more than someone to be safer, he obviously places more value on (his) life than they do. And, since people know themselves best, that means their lives really aren't worth as much.

It is a common emotion-driven sales tactic, to get people to spend more. There are variations for everything from guns to funerals, all intended to get people to spend more by exploiting the emotional response they feel when told that spending less means they care less. And, of course, if it works on you then you have an emotional investment in it being true so you will promulgate the same idea.

 

[grampajack]

I will say one thing. Guns are cheaper now than they ever have been. I just realized that you can get a brand new Sig P250 9mm compact for 380 bucks.

 

[Kiln]

Actually, he's trying to imply that people who don't spend as much don't value their lives as much. This is a common idea, not just in guns.

If he is willing to spend more than someone to be safer, he obviously places more value on (his) life than they do. And, since people know themselves best, that means their lives really aren't worth as much.

It is a common emotion-driven sales tactic, to get people to spend more. There are variations for everything from guns to funerals, all intended to get people to spend more by exploiting the emotional response they feel when told that spending less means they care less. And, of course, if it works on you then you have an emotional investment in it being true so you will promulgate the same idea.

Dead on. There is buying respecable quality and then there is buying marketing.

 

[Tirod]

Some have said that they wouldn't buy any non ferrous alloy frame guns - which puts the question in a different light. But I get it.

What has happened is that the cost of living and the quality of firearms manufacture has now crossed over to where you can buy an LCP for $200 - and quite a bit less used. So why buy "pot metal" when you have the reputation and engineering of a company like Ruger offering quality design and construction?

We haven't eliminated the market niche, it just became polymer and got a better reputation. Instead of "pot metal" we now have rearranged the letters using p-o-l-m-e and added y and r.

Keltec has that market position, along with Diamondback and a few others, too. About the only thing that changed was injecting fiberglass reinforced nylon into a mold instead of hot metal. What you get is a lower engineered to use the material correctly rather than a copy of the Walther PPK where the design considerations were less regarded in order to have a look alike configuration. The pot metal guns made some of the same basic mistakes as the polymer AR lower makers do making their lowers look exactly the same - which doesn't work well and is why both cracked and broke.

Done right it's noted Glocks will break slides first - not lowers.

We are still buying the diecast guns - we just substituted a newer better material and the makers did a better job of engineering.

 

[j1]

I do not know why you ask. You know the answer. Money.

 

[Millamber457]

I love being a devils advocate. and your right! if i'm still alive , and the cops have it , the gun did it's job ! What i was trying to get across , is that for many people out there , all they can afford to protect themselves , are those low cost cheap guns . not that they value their lives and those of their family any less! It did it's job, they have it , and maybe you can afford to scrape together enough, to replace it , hence the throw away side of my statement ! I am not saying you should go out and buy Junk ! Buy the best you can afford ! every time ! Learn how to use it , for some people those $180 Jennings and such , are what they can afford ! If you wanna carry a full blown custom , or a 5000 investment piece , and it makes you secure , than so be it ! But don't take the right from people that have low incomes to defend themselves by doing away with them , and don't Knock someone who's doing their best , with what they can scratch together to take care of them and theirs !

 

[C0untZer0]

I wanted a cheap gun to keep in my car. I wanted a gun that I could access quickly while in my vehicle. Since I wouldn't be carrying it, weight and size weren't much of a factor so I wanted a full-sized pistol. I wanted something really cheap and not something that I would worry about exposing to the heat, humidity and freezing temperatures of sitting in my car. So I purchased a SAR 4.5" 16+1 polymer-framed, SA/DA B6P. I ended up spending $241.43 for it.

I also wanted a gun to keep in a Get Home Bag. I didn't want to spend a lot of money for something that was basically just going to sit in a bag most of the time. I wanted something really cheap and not something that I would worry about exposing to the heat, humidity and freezing temperatures of sitting in the trunk of my car, which is where the GHB would be (mostly). I purchased a Taurus Millennium G2 PT111 at Whittaker Guns for 184.99 + 12.99 S&H.

I have hundreds of rounds through both without any problems.

 

[RX-79G]

Some have said that they wouldn't buy any non ferrous alloy frame guns - which puts the question in a different light. But I get it.

What has happened is that the cost of living and the quality of firearms manufacture has now crossed over to where you can buy an LCP for $200 - and quite a bit less used. So why buy "pot metal" when you have the reputation and engineering of a company like Ruger offering quality design and construction?

We haven't eliminated the market niche, it just became polymer and got a better reputation. Instead of "pot metal" we now have rearranged the letters using p-o-l-m-e and added y and r.

Keltec has that market position, along with Diamondback and a few others, too. About the only thing that changed was injecting fiberglass reinforced nylon into a mold instead of hot metal. What you get is a lower engineered to use the material correctly rather than a copy of the Walther PPK where the design considerations were less regarded in order to have a look alike configuration. The pot metal guns made some of the same basic mistakes as the polymer AR lower makers do making their lowers look exactly the same - which doesn't work well and is why both cracked and broke.

Done right it's noted Glocks will break slides first - not lowers.

We are still buying the diecast guns - we just substituted a newer better material and the makers did a better job of engineering.

This really isn't at all true.

The zamak guns use cast zinc for the frame and slide, and the use of cast metal allows them to secure a fixed barrel to work with the simple blowback action.

A cheap Keltec only works because it is a recoil operated pistol, which is harder to engineer. And they use a machined steel slide. There is a major cost savings in using a polymer frame, but it requires higher end components everywhere else to work. Plus, they have a more complex hammer fired trigger system.

 

[C5rider]

There are guys who collect shark's teeth. Why would we not think that someone would still want a firearm, no matter how lowly it might be revered by some.

 

[IMTHDUKE]

I always thought "Pot metal" was Cheech and Chong listening to heavy metal on their boom box.

 

[jstert]

it is not a semiauto but my "pot metal" heritage roughrider 22lr/wmr has a 1000 or so rounds through it without any issue. inexpensive fills a useful niche.


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[ThomasT]

Guns that work perfectly right out of the box tend to not be very expensive.

Thats true. My current truck gun is a SW9VE I bought for $325 OTD several years ago. S&W at the time had a $50 rebate AND two free factory mags when you bought one. So I figure I have a little over $200 in it. And it also came with one of the high intensity flashlights like a Streamlight that sits on my nightstand right now.

And of all the rounds I have fired it has never bobbled one single time. It just runs and runs and runs. I did a small spring exchange and that helped the crunchy trigger. And mine is the only solid black version of this gun I have ever seen. Some of the new versions are all black but those are the SD9VE models.

And I have owned several lorcin, Jennings, one Sterling and one Davis and they all functioned. The Davis 32 only like FMJ ammo. Thats OK because that was all I had.

I do have an Iver Johnson PT-22. It just works. And its pretty darn accurate out to 15 yards. I have even used it twice when I thought I was about to be attacked. The second time the guy I thought I was going to use it against did end up robbing and killing someone a couple of weeks later. Cheap metal or not I was damn glad I had it in my pocket.

So yes, inexpensive guns still have a place.

 

[Fishslayer]

There are guys who collect shark's teeth. Why would we not think that someone would still want a firearm, no matter how lowly it might be revered by some.

Not me, but the old SNS genre definitely has it's collectors. The Raven .25 was the go-to SNS from my younger days. I would buy one if it was cheap enough just as a curio. Would probably shoot it from time to time as well.

 

[pockets]

Guys, where dd this 'polymer frame' idea come from?
The small Keltec, Ruger (and other such guns that are loosely based on the K-TP32 design) DO NOT HAVE A POLYMER 'FRAME'. They have a machined aluminum alloy frame pinned inside the polymer 'handle'. The serial number that you see is part of that internal aluminum 'FRAME'. The steel slide rides on the aluminum frame, not on the polymer handle. They are not remotely the same as ZAMAK blowback guns made by Raven, etc.

That said, ZAMAK is used for all sorts of products that we trust our lives to daily. There are many forms of ZAMAK alloy (Zinc, Aluminum, Magnesium, & Copper). It has been a long time since the 1930s and those ancient early ZAMAK alloys.

.

 

[FROGO207]

Many years ago when I turned 21 the first handgun I legally purchased through a FFL to celebrate was a Jennings J22. I had purchased another 38 SPL FTF which was legal, a couple years before but that J22 was what I could afford to purchase while attending a Tech school. It was actually quite accurate for what it was and I never felt that I was defenseless with it. Also the ammo was cheaper and easier on me than reloading 38 SPL when using my time to study. Oh yeah, I still have it and it has run through at least 3K of CCI stingers (what it liked) ammo without blowing up or falling apart FWIW. If I need to take something with me that is really small and deep concealable I still trust my life to it. YMMV

So when fearless leader came out and said we needed to get rid of the SNS options to keep our nation safe I purchased a half dozen Hi Points to help keep them in business.

 

[j1]

Non ferous metals precludes the Beretta. They are NOT garbage whether the Bobcat or others.

 

[hdwhit]

Any reason for buying the cheap pot metal guns anymore?

The question answers itself.

Yes, because they are (relatively) cheap.

 

[Sarge7402]

From someone that had to depend on Pot metal guns back in the 80's and 90's I for one am glad they existed and were as reliable as any 300 gun from colt or S&W. Do I still have them today? Not the ones I had back then, but examples recently purchased. No I don't regularly carry one on a day to day basis, but would have no qualms if they were only what I had to work with.

 

[Old Fuff]

Like later "plastic," zinc/copper based die castings have earned a bad reputation they don't deserve. The latter material used in die castings are indeed far less expensive to make then from a completely machined steel or aluminum forging. But it is an historical fact that at the U.S. Army's request, Colt made several 1911-A1 .45 pistols with die cast frames and slides. Otherwise they were standard pistols, and they went for 5000 rounds of USGI .45 Hardball without any failures.

The problems with later .22, .25 and .32 pocket pistols was in design and poor quality magazines. The latter insured feeding issues. Most had manual safeties that were anything but safe.

But "pot metal" in and of itself shouldn't be considered an issue.

 

[j1]

If you do not have much money buy a good knife.

 

[MedWheeler]

^^ I do like a good knife, but I don't care for the proximity required to fight with one. My old Jennings J22 still reaches farther than my arm can. Maybe the knife as a backup in the unlikely event that distance closes after the gun runs dry..

 

[kozak6]

Consider the first rule of a gunfight.

If you can't afford the time or money for a proper gun, a Hi Point would be reasonable. They generally work, and often better than you'd expect.

However, I doubt it's worthwhile to completely cheap out on a Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez/etc or the other junkers unless you plan to flip it at a buyback.

A good friend of mine briefly owned a Bryco. It would fire the first round in the magazine reliably to point of aim, every time. Otherwise, it might malfunction on every remaining round in the magazine. Failures to extract, eject, light strikes, stovepipes, everything.

The most creative malfunction was recoil activating the takedown button, leading the pistol to half field strip itself upon firing.

Another friend of mine owned a Phoenix Arms HP22. It might also malfunction on every round in the magazine (including the first), and it had severe accuracy issues as well. A soda can an arms throw away would be completely safe.

 

[Kiln]

Consider the first rule of a gunfight.

If you can't afford the time or money for a proper gun, a Hi Point would be reasonable. They generally work, and often better than you'd expect.

However, I doubt it's worthwhile to completely cheap out on a Bryco/Jennings/Jimenez/etc or the other junkers unless you plan to flip it at a buyback.

A good friend of mine briefly owned a Bryco. It would fire the first round in the magazine reliably to point of aim, every time. Otherwise, it might malfunction on every remaining round in the magazine. Failures to extract, eject, light strikes, stovepipes, everything.

The most creative malfunction was recoil activating the takedown button, leading the pistol to half field strip itself upon firing.

Another friend of mine owned a Phoenix Arms HP22. It might also malfunction on every round in the magazine (including the first), and it had severe accuracy issues as well. A soda can an arms throw away would be completely safe.

I'd tell your buddy to use CCI Standard or Minimags (sparingly) in the HP22. It'll probably surprise you.

 

[sarge83]

I have one pot metal gun I bought for $25 from a buddy twenty yrs. ago. It is an RG .22lr revolver that looks like it was ran over by a lawn mower several times. It goes bang every time you shoot it. I carried it in my tackle box for years with snake loads for exactly that copperheads and rattlesnakes. It's laying in a shelf in my garage currently, having looked at it in years.

My wife has a pot metal davis derringer in .22 magnum that she bought and carried in college in the early 90's. She lived off campus and walked to classes and work at the college and there was a flasher that was working the campus over that they couldn't catch. Her boyfriend at the time took her to a pawn shop and bought her the derringer for protection. Still goes bang when you shoot it, but unless you are two feet from the perp good luck hitting them.

 

[DaisyCutter]

IMO, it's in really poor taste to rob the guy who can only afford a $130 handgun to defend himself. When criminals are robbing broke fellas, it's a sad sign of the times, that so many never had a father figure to teach them how to target a victim with something of value to steal.

And to top of off, just think how inadequate the victim feels when he gets jacked and the robber finds his trap spot is bare.

Nobody should be without a decent gun. Glock really needs to start accepting food stamps as payment.