Any thoughts on the 8.6 BLK?

[JmacD]

Fax on/Q has a new cartridge, and I find it intriguing. I’ve been following the discussion on the controlled 80,000 psi sig fury cartridge here (I find that intriguing as well) but I’d like to hear other peoples thoughts on this other BLK. The 300 definitely has made its mark.
I find the 1:3 twist interesting, and though I like the stabilization of big/long bullets, I wonder what it will do with shorter ones? In my mind (might be overthinking it or completely full of something you don’t want to step in) a shorter bullet won’t properly contact the rifling. Just curious on y’all’s thoughts.

 

[Demi-human]

Just curious on y’all’s thoughts.

I think it’s strange to be touted as a uber cool, long range, subsonic hunting cartridge but there is no sub sonic loading in that particular spread sheet. And the name is comical, like a video game spoof.

The twist is uncommon but not unusual. A fast twist is more explosive on varmints, this would world the same.
A short bullet is of the same diameter. The bore is the same, the twist is faster.
A lighter weight bullet(shorter) can be driven fast enough to burst apart from the rotational forces, but it will get there engaging the lands the same.

Seems silly to me, but I don’t have use for it. Some hunters might like truly suppressed hunting a lot and wish to do it farther, seems great for that.

 

[C-grunt]

It's an interesting round. However what I've seen is the 2450 FPS round is a 155 grain bullet. I can't imagine a 155 grain 338 bullet to have a good BC.

 

[CapnMac]

Well, it's brand new, so, all we really have is hype and SHOT Show gushing.
May be a niche for an itch that don't scratch so much.
Only time will tell.

 

[ExtremeSquared]

8.6 Whisper?
13mm Whisper is technically a real cartridge.

There are diminishing returns on external ballistics of subsonics. In a vacuum, .22lr subsonic and 13mm Whisper follow identical trajectories. Trying to eke out more range or consistency with higher mass and BC gets hard quick.

 

[mcb]

If I had a 338 suppressor I would definitely be interested in this cartridge.

 

[WisBorn]

Unless I completely missed the boat someplace here.? This cartridge is defying physics???

 

[Ohen Cepel]

J.D. Jones didn't do this already (he made all the other Whisper rounds many years ago)?

The ballistics chart is confusing to me. It is a subsonic round doing 2400fps at the muzzle and still super at 600 yards? If that is what one is looking for I'm sure there is something similar with more support today.

It may be neat, and may find a niche but I am not sure people will be clambering to adapt it. The 300BLK fit in an Ar15 mag which made it the pretty girl at the party.

 

[kcofohio]

View attachment 1055616 View attachment 1055617 Fax on/Q has a new cartridge, and I find it intriguing. I’ve been following the discussion on the controlled 80,000 psi sig fury cartridge here (I find that intriguing as well) but I’d like to hear other peoples thoughts on this other BLK. The 300 definitely has made its mark.
I find the 1:3 twist interesting, and though I like the stabilization of big/long bullets, I wonder what it will do with shorter ones? In my mind (might be overthinking it or completely full of something you don’t want to step in) a shorter bullet won’t properly contact the rifling. Just curious on y’all’s thoughts.

I'm just curious at this point. I ran across the 338 Whisper at Ammoguide the other day. But I can't make out the specs on the picture you posted.

338 Whisper

 

[someguy2800]

I just recently joined the world of suppressors. I think it would be a very cool and unique cartridge to shoot subsonic and suppressed, but entirely uninteresting and pointless to shoot supersonic. I honestly am confused why they are marketing this as a cartridge for supersonic use. Doesn’t really bring much to that table.

Maybe it will lead to some new bullets in 338 which I would be happy about.

 

[Gordon]

I think it is an AR-10 format.

 

[Varminterror]

People loved the dumb idea of the 300blk in the AR-15 action, so they are laying the bet that people will love the dumb idea of the 8.6 Blackout in the AR-10 platform.

This isn’t a rebrand of one of JDJ’s cartridges, although he basically did EVERY caliber, so he did something similar. It’s just a 6.5 creed case cut short enough to fit a heavyweight, long ogive 33cal bullet into an AR-10 magazine.

For suppressed hunters which have found the 300blk lacking, AND which are ok with the idea of hauling a heavier AR-10, this will be a unique option. For everyone else, it’s kinda like hyping new truck axles for an 18 wheeler while they’re shopping for a 4 door sedan.

 

[BreechFace]

This cartridge makes no sense to me. But whatever floats peoples boats.

Want something subsonic suppressed that is quiet, it’s going to be a lot handier in an AR15 platform a la 300BLK.

Want something suppressed with lots of mass, look no further than 450BM, 458 Socom, or 50Beo.

Like was said above they are touting its supersonic abilities which aren’t that impressive, just stick with the 338 Federal. Not to mention the 1:3” twist rate just screams issues to me with excessive pressure due to friction forces as well as the RPM’s the bullets are going to have to stand up to will limit one to monos.

Q can go ahead and market this one, I’ll do what I’ve done with his other high priced novelties, look at them say that’s neat and move on.

 

[someguy2800]

I guess if I wanted to hunt with a subsonic suppressed rifle, it would be with a bullet diameter that starts with 4 or even 5, and if I wanted something to shoot the 300 grain 338 match bullets subsonic I would do a 338 spectre in an AR15, and if I wanted a 338 caliber supersonic hunting cartridge for an ar10 I would get a 338 federal, so not sure what I would have to have going through my head to make this interesting.

 

[sarduy]

It doesn’t do anything a 338 federal won’t do.

 

[Goosey]

The twist is still crazy.

An 8" twist would already be fully stable (SG > 1.5) with a 300 gr Berger Hybrid at 1000 fps, at sea level, at -30 F.

3"??

 

[tark]

Unless I completely missed the boat someplace here.? This cartridge is defying physics???

Looks to me like somebodies idea of an early April Fools joke.

 

[3Crows]

With that much twist the bullet better remain very much subsonic or centripetal force it will have it fly apart.

 

[someguy2800]

With that much twist the bullet better remain very much subsonic or centripetal force it will have it fly apart.

I watched a video on it the other day and they said they are getting solid copper bullets to hold together at 2500 fps or something like that.

 

[Varminterror]

It doesn’t do anything a 338 federal won’t do.

It fits heavy, long ogive bullets into AR-10 mag length, which 338 Federal cannot. Which is largely the entire point of the cartridge.

 

[.455_Hunter]

It's been awhile since I have done any rotational stability calculations, so I don't know if the 1-3 twist is reasonable. It definitely seems like a good candidate for a gain twist set-up if such a rate is needed.

 

[Varminterror]

It's been awhile since I have done any rotational stability calculations, so I don't know if the 1-3 twist is reasonable. It definitely seems like a good candidate for a gain twist set-up if such a rate is needed.

I see a lot of guys saying this online this week, but it really doesn’t make that much sense. The rifle is designed for sub-sonic ammo. We’re not talking about extreme accelerations, twisting jackets apart with ridiculous RPM’s which have to immediately overcome inertia to suddenly reach its muzzle spin rate. 1100fps in a 1:3 twist is only 264,000rpm at the muzzle.

 

[.455_Hunter]

I see a lot of guys saying this online this week, but it really doesn’t make that much sense. The rifle is designed for sub-sonic ammo. We’re not talking about extreme accelerations, twisting jackets apart with ridiculous RPM’s which have to immediately overcome inertia to suddenly reach its muzzle spin rate. 1100fps in a 1:3 twist is only 264,000rpm at the muzzle.

Similar to .300 BO, I saw mention of there being a full suite of loadings intended- subsonic to full-performance (2000+ fps). That changes the projectile / rifling engagement relationship a bit with the higher velocity loads.

This round is not on my radar screen, so all of my observations are purely "Huh, that's interesting" and noting that it's at least its a road relatively little traveled in terms of bore size/projectile weight/sub-sonic velocity- not "Yet Another" 6mm to 7.62mm short action special.

 

[JShirley]

9x39mm fires a 252 gr SP at 920 fps from a 6" barrel.

8.6 BO looks like it will have slightly more throw weight, and higher potential velocity. In exchange, you have a longer (AR10) cartridge with little testing done, vs a well tested cartridge that fits in AR15-length platforms.

John

 

[BreechFace]

I see a lot of guys saying this online this week, but it really doesn’t make that much sense. The rifle is designed for sub-sonic ammo. We’re not talking about extreme accelerations, twisting jackets apart with ridiculous RPM’s which have to immediately overcome inertia to suddenly reach its muzzle spin rate. 1100fps in a 1:3 twist is only 264,000rpm at the muzzle.

Except for when one shoots a supersonic bullet out of it, as these are being marketed towards both supers and subs from what I've seen. But a solid copper projectile wouldn't have an issue, but it has the potential of limiting what projectiles can be used for this cartridge.

I've been told that anything over 300k RPM's and one starts to potentially see bullet failures, dependent on bullet construction.