Anybody Ever Have A 1911 "Run Away", i.e. Full Auto?

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Foto Joe

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So myself & a buddy head out this morning with a few pieces of hardware to plink. I as well took my chronograph to test some new cast boolit loads for a 1911. This particular 1911 is a S&W Government Model in stainless and is one of my favorites. I bought it used a couple of years ago in a pawn shop and have since put somewhere between 500-700 rounds through it, 99% of which are my own mild reloads and cast boolits.

This morning after setting up the chronograph and target I took my first shot from a rest and the thing ran away full auto for five rounds. Somebody up there was looking out for me because by some miracle I DID NOT manage to hit the chronograph as this thing went Rambo on me. I subsequently loaded one round, removed the magazine and fired it six times with no hammer drop on cycling. I went on to shoot another 50-75 rounds normally with no issues. I pulled it down and cleaned it after we got back and found nothing out of the ordinary although I didn't strip the action, I'm going to leave that to Borks guns here in Cody as Tony Bork specializes in 1911's and I don't want to mistakenly "fix" it and not know what I did. Either that or have to take it to him in a baggie because I'm not smart enough to put it back together.

When I say "mild" loads I'm talking middle of the road not light and not maxed out using either 164 gr LRNFP's or 228 gr LRN's, so it's not like the slide is failing to come back far enough. This thing is super dependable and about the only time I've stovepiped or had a failure to go into battery was when I was shooting more than a hundred rounds loaded with TrailBoss. This morning the powder was Universal and the gun was clean although it had been carried in a dusty environment the week before but not fired.

Anybody got any ideas what may have caused this or had a similar experience?
 
Usually, it seems like a run away on a 1911 is caused by a worn or buggered up disconnector... That's where I would start anyway.
 
Unfortunately, because it was a used gun, you don't know if Bubba tried some home gunsmithing on it.

I think you're definitely doing the right thing by having a 1911 expert look at it.
 
The condition of the gun when I bought it in 2011 led me to believe that it had been fired very little but ya never know what somebody will "think" they're capable of do ya? I can say that I was VERY glad I was sitting down when it happened, a 45 handgun in full auto will get your attention to say the least. I'll post back hopefully some time this week after Borks Guns does an exploratory surgery on it. One thing that sucks is I was hoping to have him work on the trigger for my S&W Compact 1911 that I regularly carry. Oh well, it's only gun money I suppose, as long as it gets spent on a gun it's not a total waste like buying groceries or some such.
 
A faulty disconnector will seldom lead to full auto fire, it will lead to hammer follow. As can a totally buggered sear/hammer engagement.

If your sear/hammer are right on the edge due to dirt/dust/ improper engagement you will get a jar off, that means the hammer will fall from the vibration of the slide closing-this will lead to full auto fire. This may explain why the pistol worked normally afterwards.

A bit more sear/hammer engagement will likely solve your problem.
 
Although we won't know until it's apart and I am by no means an expert...the "jar off" theory sound possible but in my mind it was just too high of a rate of fire. I've had the opportunity to shoot a Thompson as well as an Uzi and although it was years ago I don't think either would have match this beast when it decided to run away. I had to pull the magazine and count the remaining rounds as I didn't have a clue as to how many times it fired. I'll definitely be interested to know the cause. I do appreciate the input that everybody has given. I'm gonna have to educate myself about the innards of these things, I'm afraid I've spent too many years tinkering with SAA's and I've never had the inclination to tear apart a 1911 all the way.
 
At the very least, you can be assured that you don't have a feed issue with that gun.

Lol too soon?
 
Unfortunately the line between a great trigger job and a dangerous gun is quite slim. I saw firsthand a couple weeks ago something similar happen. A guy paid for a trigger job from a well known local smith. After about 300 rds in a couple weeks he brought it to the pistol match on a tuesday night. First shot tripled on him. He was perplexed but wanted to blame himself. Reloaded and dumped all five in the mag on the first shot.

The on site gunsmith said the other guy got carried away and polished through the hardening allowing the trigger components to rapidly wear, causing the failure after a few hundred rounds.
 
At the gunshop I work at we bought a Colt .380 (1911 style) that had a "trigger job" done to it. I loaded four loose rounds I had on the bench to test fire it and when I pulled the trigger it rattled off all four rounds. Luckily for me it was just a .380 and not a .45acp, otherwise I probably wouldn't have been able to hold it in the test fire tunnel.

It ended up costing us $300 just to replace the parts as only Jack First had any in stock. We ended up selling the gun at cost just to break even.
 
Although we won't know until it's apart and I am by no means an expert...the "jar off" theory sound possible but in my mind it was just too high of a rate of fire.

Jarring off is pretty much the only way it can happen. A simple hammer followdown can't do it, even if it follows all the way to the slide.

Failure of the sear to fully reset is the usual culprit. Even if the hammer hooks slip off the sear...if the sear is functioning properly...the half-cock will grab the sear and stop it.

And the cyclic rate of a 1911 is pretty high.
 
I saw one at a USPSA match go full auto. STI Open Gun in .38 Super, Master Class Shooter Owner bragged about its 1.75 pound trigger pull.

The buzzer goes off, three targets to engage, sounds like pop pop, pop pop, brrrrrrt.

25 round magazine, after the two controlled pairs the 21 rounds that went full auto stayed inside the A-Zone on the third target. He did an excellent job of controlling it, and the 5 port compensator helped also.

People started applauding and kept asking him to do it again :).

Hammer hooks on the lightweight Titanium hammer gave and it went full auto. That is what a post full auto inspection showed.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr
 
I've seen doubles and triples from a over adjusted 'over travel' screw in the trigger

(actually 'bump firing', not really FA)
 
I saw it happen twice in matches as a bullseye shooter. It gets exciting during a 10 sec. rapid fire segment.
 
In almost 50 years of shooting, I've never had any gun go FA on me. Well, except for an M16, but given the circumstances at the time, that's exactly what I wanted it to do.
 
I have seen several 1911s go full auto because the owner removed the overtravel screw in the trigger. Just out of curiousity I removed my OT screw and sure enough got rock'n roll. But I was expecting it. Immediately replaced the screw - normal function restored.
 
If your pistol goes full auto when you remove the overtravel screw, you have a problem that goes far beyond the overtravel screw.
 
Also, if it was the over travel screw you'd think that it would have repeated itself which it didn't. I'm suspecting that there was a piece of snot or something in the action that wound up where it didn't belong. All this is just pleasant speculation though until I get it into the 1911 doctor tomorrow morning.
 
In a .22 LR target pistol, I tightened up some slack pre-travel in the linkage of a 1.2# trigger.
I shot the pistol and it seemed fine except it sounded odd.
It was shooting "two rds" each and every trigger pull. Was interesting for one mag. I put a little slack back in the linkage. That was in the 1980s. It still runs great.

I wouldn't be surprised if an O.T. screw set PRECISELY at the break might stutter-step.
 
If your pistol goes full auto when you remove the overtravel screw, you have a problem that goes far beyond the overtravel screw.

This...and I can't quite wrap my head around how it can happen. One 1911 manufacturer won't allow removing or even adjusting the OT screw very much because the grip safety that they use doesn't have an in-spec built-in overtravel stop. The trigger stirrup lifts the sear spring off the disconnect...and the disconnect drops out of position when the trigger is pulled. When that happens, the sear resets and grabs the half-cock notch.

This can be reproduced by assembling the gun without the grip safety and fashioning a hook from a paper clip. Pull the sear spring off the disconnect...and pull the trigger. If you can get the hammer to drop at all, it'll stop before it hits the firing pin.
 
A self-styled M1911 "gunsmith" in the area liked to brag about his knife edge sears and light trigger pulls. But when his guns kept dropping the hammers on loading, and the half cock notch damaged his perfect sears, he decided to grind off the half cock. After a couple of his guns went full auto (fortunately without damage), it was "suggested" by a lawyer and the cops that he take up another line of work. Last I heard, he is repairing lawn mowers.

Jim
 
Just for a second, the testosterone in me made me think "Awesome!!!" Then I thought about it for a further three seconds and though "Yeah no, that isn't awesome." Glad nothing bad happened.

At the very least, you can be assured that you don't have a feed issue with that gun.

LOL! Good one man.
 
Bought a lightly used COLT Series 80 Gold Cup National Match for $500 from a guy a few yrs ago.... turns out it was so cheap because on my first trip to the range it doubled and then tripled....

As enamored with my new ownership of a COLT SUBMACHINE CUP as I was, I decided that it would be better if I fixed it to operate as intended.

Turns out some clown had rounded off the primary sear angle (never seen that approach to a trigger job before) and had cut the hammer hooks right on the minimum (.020 which is pretty common)....

I was able to save and reuse the orginal hammer but had to buy a new sear from COLT for like $25.00, so in the end things worked out pretty good.
Will
 
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