Anyone carry the Cold steel Talon 2

[KodeFore]

So i was looking at spydercos, got into the matriarch 2 and wanted one, discovered that anything outside defensive use is not covered under warranty and I don't want a knife you can't use like a knife then i found the Cold Steel Talon 2 witch has the same basic design with a beefier tip and no usage restrictions. The knife is pretty big for edc but the thin profile looks like might be do able. i currently carry the emerson sheepdog but its a bit fat for my liking.

I want any knife i carry to be at least somewhat practical for general purpose cutting. ( Ya, that knife is cleary primarily desinged for personal defense i get that) I also ordered the Lansky sharpener made specifically for those CS serrations. As an additional "Accessory" for the Talon 2 I ordered a swiss army knife hiker for times when displaying such a cool looking blade style as the T2 might send any snowflakes present into full meltdown.

Does anyone have any long term experience with this knife? If its pure junk I still have time to cancel my order lol.

 

[Mk-211]

Why did you pick the serrated blade over the plain? I like the look of it but serrations are a PITA to sharpen. On top of that, most people don't know what they're doing when they try to sharpen serrations.

A serrated blade is only sharpened on ONE side not both. If you give it to anyone other than the factory to sharpen and they do both sides, they just ruined your blade! That and most will try to use a belt to sharpen them and round off the tips. Once again, they just F'd up your nice knife!

Personally, I think the knife is good for EDC only and having the SAK as a backup is a good idea. The tip might be beefier but it's going to snap off if any real pressure is applied to it.

Being a Spyderco means that it's quality for the most part and if anything happens to it, they'll fix or replace it.

 

[hso]

anything outside defensive use

They're not designed for anything outside of defensive use (and very specific defensive use at that).
Carrying one is not an EDC decision, it is a defensive knife decision. I have a variety of the early Spyderco Civilians and Matriarchs (including a couple of prototypes) and spent time talking with Sal and Michael Janich about the knives. They're not well suited for anything outside the defensive role and the Talon with the same general blade shape won't serve you well as an EDC, but could be an impressive defensive knife.

 

[JohnKSa]

The Cold Steel opening shelf for wave opening is going to wear pockets quickly. Something to keep in mind. I think Spyderco's take on that functionality is going to be a lot easier on clothing although it might be a bit less positive in operation compared to the Cold Steel design.

I agree that it's not an ideal EDC blade, but I don't think it would be useless in the role. You'd have to get used to new ways of using the knife compared to more conventional blade designs.

But if you plan to use the knife, you will eventually have to sharpen it and that's a problem. I have sharpened a lot of serrated knives and although I've never run across one I couldn't sharpen, some serrations styles are definitely worse than others. The Cold Steel serration style is one of the worst to sharpen. It's an excellent choice for a defense knife since good serrations definitely help with aggressive cutting and because self-defense knives don't get dulled very often--if at all. But if you plan to use the knife for EDC type activities, I wouldn't get the serrated version.

And while we're talking about sharpening, blades with a reverse curve are more challenging to sharpen even without the issue of serrations.

If you want a defensive knife and the technique you plan to use works with that blade style, then it's not a bad choice as long as you are willing to deal with the pocket wear issue. But if you are looking for an EDC that can serve defensively as well, then that's really a different story, IMO.

 

[Ranger99]

Some of my neighbors are LEO's, sheriff's
deputies, prison guards, detectives

They all have the same advice about
defensive folding knives-
" get a gun. . ."

 

[KodeFore]

Why did you pick the serrated blade over the plain?

Because CS claims the serrated version is 3x more effective than a plain edge.

I already have plane edge and partially serrated knives, fully serrated seems like a logical progression.

Lansky makes a pocket sharpener made just for CS serrations. Under 8$.

Some of my neighbors are LEO's, sheriff's
deputies, prison guards, detectives

They all have the same advice about
defensive folding knives-
" get a gun. . ."

Who said anything about carrying a knife INSTEAD of a gun? I'm sure all those guys also carry folders of some sort too...

 

[JohnKSa]

Lansky makes a pocket sharpener made just for CS serrations. Under 8$.

Yup, that will definitely work. The fact that it has multiple grooves will make the process go a bit faster, but you're going to be working each of the fine serration sections individually.

There are 4 peaks on the sharpener and 5 grooves on the serrations so it's not a straight matchup, you'll have to be sure you shift back and forth by one groove to get even sharpening. Then repeat for each of the 8 serrated sections.

Then sharpen each of the 8 scallops individually.

Then take the burrs off the flat side of the blade and go back across all the serrations with a very light touch to finish the sharpened side.

Then finally the plain section at the tip will have to be sharpened separately.

As I said before, it can certainly be done, but it's going to be a chore.

If I were going to carry the Talon II as a self-defense knife, I would carry another knife with a more conventional blade style and a plain edge for EDC type use.

 

[JShirley]

Some of my neighbors are LEO's, sheriff's
deputies, prison guards, detectives

They all have the same advice about
defensive folding knives-
" get a gun. . ."

That's about the silliest thing I've heard this week. It's not one or the other. Just more tools in the toolbox.

 

[JShirley]

Some of my neighbors are LEO's, sheriff's
deputies, prison guards, detectives

They all have the same advice about
defensive folding knives-
" get a gun. . ."

I've been some of those things, and I've trained with some nationally known trainers. My personal experience and the elite professionals I respect have said nothing similar. No one I know with any sense just has the blanket response to SD of "get a gun". That's like getting insurance but not keeping a fire extinguisher, smoke detector, or exterior lights. All of these things are tools to help keep us safe.

John Shirley

 

[Zack856]

I'd do terrible unspeakable things to get my hands on a matriarch, police, or civilian in ats-55. That will probably never happen. No experience with the talon but I've got a dozen or so CS knives and a couple spydies. I've fallen for the xl voyagers and stocked up on those. Super thin and light. I've got three which should last me. Had a tanto xl as well but my old man took a shine to it. The voyager is the only knife I really carry. As for sharpening serrations, it only takes one swipe with the correct file between each tooth before you go ahead and sharpen it like a straight edge. Only adds a minute or two to the sharpening process and if you do it right you can split paper between any two teeth from that single swipe.

 

[KodeFore]

I'd do terrible unspeakable things to get my hands on a matriarch, police, or civilian in ats-55. That will probably never happen. No experience with the talon but I've got a dozen or so CS knives and a couple spydies. I've fallen for the xl voyagers and stocked up on those. Super thin and light. I've got three which should last me. Had a tanto xl as well but my old man took a shine to it. The voyager is the only knife I really carry. As for sharpening serrations, it only takes one swipe with the correct file between each tooth before you go ahead and sharpen it like a straight edge. Only adds a minute or two to the sharpening process and if you do it right you can split paper between any two teeth from that single swipe. View attachment 1008352View attachment 1008353

Actually the matriarch 2 cost about the same as the Talon, judging from i see in your pictures that's absolutely within your reach. I chose the CS version because that tip on the matriarch looks tooth fragile for my liking. It seems that "voyager" series from CS offers the same handle with a number of blade styles. That Kriss blade looks completely impractical but so cool i kinda want one lol, not enough to pay that $ for something I would never carry.

 

[Zack856]

Actually the matriarch 2 cost about the same as the Talon, judging from i see in your pictures that's absolutely within your reach. I chose the CS version because that tip on the matriarch looks tooth fragile for my liking. It seems that "voyager" series from CS offers the same handle with a number of blade styles. That Kriss blade looks completely impractical but so cool i kinda want one lol, not enough to pay that $ for something I would never carry.

You can grab one in their soft vg-10. Good luck finding one in ats-55. They only made one sprint run in ats-55 because it work hardens and destroys the tooling. Super hard to machine but the end result is a much harder edge than the rest of the knife and every time you sharpen it the new edge hardens. No manufacturer want to to deal with all that now that we have powder metallurgy though.

 

[JohnKSa]

...soft vg-10.

What does this mean? Based on my quick poking around, it looks like Spyderco vg10 blades run 60-62RC which seems very reasonable.
https://agrussell.com/knife/Spyderco-RockJumper--SPC254PBK

They only made one sprint run in ats-55 because it work hardens and destroys the tooling. Super hard to machine but the end result is a much harder edge than the rest of the knife and every time you sharpen it the new edge hardens.

The only information on a Sypderco ATS-55 knife that I can find indicates a Rockwell hardness of 59-61 which is right in the same range as the figure for their vg10.
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/spyderco-knives-c05gs-standard-w-g10-handle-ats-55

Spyderco claims they went to vg10 even though it was more expensive than ats-55 because it tested better both in the lab and in practice. Where did you get the information on the problem with work hardening and tooling problems?

 

[Zack856]

It's harder to sharpen and won't hold a fine edge as well. You are gonna notice that 60 Rockwell if you have to reprofile it but you won't notice it helping you retain and edge at all. All that extra money for the vg-10 goes into the molybdenum for corosion resistance. Makes for a worse knife steel IMHO. There's really no good info on ats-55 that isn't in Sal Glessers head. I know when they switched from ats-34 they dropped the mollyb drastically and added cobalt and copper. Those two effect the tempering and hardening process so that might have something to do with it. They might say it tested better in a lab but I haven't heard anything complaints about ats-55 and my vg-10 delica won't stay sharp and takes a half hour to sharpen. They have been using vg-10 for almost 30 years and ats-55 for only 6 months. That short run that sent them running back to a new steel with a similar composition to their tried and true ats-34 and them trying to add the cobalt and copper to ats-55 to play with the hardening and tempering tells me it was probably tearing up their gear to fool with the stuff.

 

[JohnKSa]

Glesser was the one who posted that the VG10 was more expensive but tested better than the ATS-55 so they went with it anyway. Can't remember which forum now.

I'm having a hard time following what you're saying. Are you saying Spyderco VG10 is harder or softer than ATS-55?

I'm also not really following the comments about edge retention and sharpening difficulty--those two things are usually connected pretty tightly. If a knife is really easy to sharpen, it's going to dull from wear really fast for exactly the same reason it's easy to sharpen--it isn't resistant to wear. Sharpening is just a form of wear. So I don't really understand how a knife can have bad edge retention (poor resistance to wear) while also being hard to sharpen (high resistance to wear).

I do agree that all else being equal, the VG10 will probably be a bit harder to sharpen, the vanadium in VG10 which contributes to edge retention is also going to make it a bit harder to sharpen, as is the slightly higher chromium and molybdenum. Also, all else being more or less equal, the slightly harder figures for Spyderco's VG10 should also make it hold an edge a bit better than ATS-55--and also be harder to sharpen. But truthfully, I wouldn't expect the difference to be huge. I would think that relatively small differences in the blade geometry (especially the edge angle) would make more difference in edge retention than differences in the material itself.

That short run that sent them running back to a new steel with a similar composition to their tried and true ats-34...

Which new steel is that?

...them trying to add the cobalt and copper to ats-55 to play with the hardening and tempering...

Are you saying that Spyderco managed to convince its steel supplier to alter the composition of ATS-55?

 

[hso]

soft

 

[KodeFore]

Got my Talon II today after about a 2 week wait from amazon. i was really looking to it. I figured had done due diligence looking at youtube video & google searches. When i actually got it in my hands after about 15 mins i was ready to send it back. I'll get right to the point, the triad locking system is solid but the release is terrible! I have several lockback knives including a spyderco, buck & several byrd knives. Never ran into anything this awful. The lock up was so tight i ended resorting to pliers the first few times to activate the release. i then used a beater knife to work the action and added some CLP. When i did press it hard enough to dropped quickly and it can bite. After a while, i got the release down. i can choke down, press hard and make sure there something for something for it fall onto. The most efficient way to close it is to hold with 2 hands, one hand on top of the top of the blade and the other on handle to activate the release. Other than the terrible release here are my initial impressions

The triad lock system is sold i don't think the knife would ever release accidentally. ( Hard enough to get it to release intentionally.) There is up/down & left/right flex in the knife. I don't think it would hold up to much prying.

The knife is wicked razor sharp out the the box. There is about 1/4 to 1/2 of usable plane edge at the tip.

Surprisingly, in spite of the curved tip, the knife is very "Stabby" and easily thrust into a cardboard box.

Conclusions: I think this is great defensive knife, but completely impractical for every day carry, but it would work in a pinch. I plan on giving this 2 star rating on amazon and won't to in a hurry to buy Cold steal again. I do hope to pick up spyderco matriarch 2 in the future.

 

[JohnKSa]

The larger Cold Steel knives do have lock releases that are pretty stiff. If you put any pressure on the blade to try to fold it before the release is depressed fully, then they are even harder to release.

There is up/down & left/right flex in the knife. I don't think it would hold up to much prying.

It's not made for prying, most better quality folding knives have blades that are hardened beyond what should be used for prying to enhance edge retention.

When you say there's flex, are you talking about the blade wiggling where it attaches to the handle, or the handle itself flexing?

 

[KodeFore]

The handle and blade itself flex. i don't get that from my 30$ byrd knife or my 225$ Emerson.

 

[JohnKSa]

That doesn't sound right at all. You can actually flex the blade? And the G10 handle is flexing too?

 

[KodeFore]

yes, probably because its a thin knife over all

 

[JohnKSa]

I have a a thin Cold Steel knife with a G10 handle--a couple different models, actually. I went back and tried harder to flex them after your last post. I put as much force on the handle with the blade open as I'm comfortable doing and can only get a very tiny bit of flex out of the one with the longest blade and thinnest handle. Certainly not enough to cause any sort of concern about the quality of the knife and only after putting more force on it than I've ever done before.

None of them have any play in the opening/closing direction when locked and only a tiny bit of side-to-side play in the joint when a really vigorous side-to-side force is applied.

Are you setting it up in some kind of lever situation to get it to flex or is this something you're doing with your bare hands? I don't see how you could have that much strength in your hands/fingers and still have to use pliers to release the lock.

 

[KodeFore]

Bare hands only. i moved it using my hands like you try break a still. i think i have average hand strength.
I don't need the pliers anymore to close it, but its still harder and more awkward than should be. I'd be happy with it if you didn't have to press it so far in to activate it. Maybe that will loosen up over time but i doubt it will see much use.

 

[JohnKSa]

Do you mind saying what company/website you purchased it from?

 

[KodeFore]

JBTools on Amazon