Anyone have an Astra A-400/600?

[Dr.Rob]

A buddy of my dad's showed me his... alledgedly they can be had 'on the cheap'... I recall thinking wow... that's one solid old pistol.

Who has one? What do you think of it? Accuracy/reliability. What about spare parts? One source I found said no spares have been made since 1946.

Wouldn't want it for defense or ccw or anything... just looks like a neat old gun to take the the range once in a while.

 

[Moonclip]

I have a 600 made for the Nazis but never delivered. Very good shape, got it for $160 recently. I'd look for a 600 over a 400 as 9mm para ammo is easier to find. Stupidly passed a 400 at $150.

These can sometimes be picked up cheap even though they blue book high as Spanish guns have a poor rep. These are generally reliable and accurate due to the fixed barrel blowback design. people are put off by the odd look too.

Mine feeds WWB hollowpoints even. A recent issue of Shotgun News wrote these up and said the Nazi SS was issued a quantity of them even.

The 400 is known as a garbage disposal gun that can feed other calibers like 9mm para and 38 super but for safety this should be avoided.

I believe Gun Parts Corp has parts. Two good sources of info are the book Spanish Handguns by Gene Gangarosa and www.gunboards.com has a Spanish handgun forum that has knowledgeable people. Feel free to ask or PM me if you have further questions.

 

[grendelbane]

I have an Astra 400. The bad points are a very poor grip angle, and a concealed hammer. (It may be safe, but I don't trust it. No problem as I only use it as a fun gun.)

The accuracy is quite good, though it is difficult to achieve with the poor sights and heavy trigger.

Ballistics are respectable, all I have ever fired is factory ammunition.

Since I also own a .38 Super and a 9x23mm Winchester, I am very careful about what goes in the magazine.

I have owned worse. And that includes several American made well known brands.

 

[Morgan]

Rob, there was a good article on the old Astra's in a recent Shotgun News.

I'll let you know by e-mail if I still have it...

 

[BluesBear]

I've owned a couple of 400s and one 600. They were fun guns. when clean they were boringly reliable. Well any gun that works is never really boring.

I always shot .38 ACP in my 400s since 9mm Largo was almost impossible to find in the 70s and if you did it was Berdan.

I always though one made in .45acp would be great.

Yeah the grip angle is strange by todays standards but I grew up on a Llama 7/8 sized 9mm so it was familiar to me.

 

[only1asterisk]

I wish I had my 400. A guy offered me twice what i paid and...

I fed mine 38 Super too. Lots of it. The book prices are a bit more than I'd pay, but if a solid 400 was made available to me at <$200 I'd bite.

David

 

[Nick_90]

I own an Astra 400 which was given to me by an old Spaniard who fought on Franco's side during the civil war. I have shot it a few times and it feels rather safe for a seventy year old gun. On the other hand I don't like the angle of the grip...

 

[Onmilo]

What, you mean one of these?

As stated, the gun is boringly reliable, suprisingly accurate and has a very decent trigger pull weight.
Don't try shooting 9mm Parabellum, 9 Steyer, or .380acp in one of these Model 400s, you are asking for trouble.
Shoot only 9mm Parabellum, Luger, whateve
r you wish to call it, ammunition in a Model 600, anything else can and probably will ruin the gun.
Most work best with plain old full metal jacket loadings, you just don't need hollowpoints in these old guns.

If your Model 400 is marked '9mm/38 it has a chamber that will accomodate .38acp ammunition along with the original 9mm Largo ammunition.
If the chamber is marked '9mm L' or '9mm' it is only chambered for the Largo/Bergmann-Bayard cartridges and it will probably malfunction if you try the .38 acp/super stuff in it.
Modern Commercial .38 Super should work in a 9mm/.38 marked
gun too but have a gunsmith look it over before you decide to shoot any and stick with standard .38 super full metal jacket 'promotional loads', i.e. Winchester white box, Remington yellow box, etc.
This stuff is actually loaded pretty mild for Super, it is really is closer to .38acp loading and i think the ammo companies do this intentionally in case somebody stuffs some into an old Colt .38 automatic.
I have some Santa Barbara 9mm Largo and it is a ballistic twin of the original .38 super load, 1350 fps, 450 fpe.
If this is intended for the Astra 400, the Llama and the Star, I see no reason why .38 Super ammunition couldn't still be fired in the gun, if it is in good shape
.38 Super Silvertips worked fine in my gun too but I really see no reason to use them, the pistol is a fun gun, not a defense piece.

 

[gc70]

Check the 9mm Largo website for lots of good information.

I used to have a 600. The 400/600 model guns are built like tanks; they had to be to hold up as blowback pistols in the calibers in which they were chambered.

They are fun guns, with only two major shortcomings - tiny, nearly nonexistant sights and recoil springs heavy enough to use in an exercise program to build your arm muscles.

 

[Morgan]

Guys, I've already discarded my Shotgun News with the Astra article in it.

Anyone else have a copy they can send to Rob?

 

[Gordon]

I put all new Wolfe springs in my 400. I also fitted a Federal Ordinance stainless barrel in 9mmx19 . They do shoot anything!

 

[Onmilo]

So those Federal Ordinance barrels really work eh?
I am a bit more than leery of anything those folks offer and can't personally comment on whether this conversion to another caliber is considered a sound practice.
The breechface and ejector on the Model 400 are dimensionally different than a true 9mm Luger caliber like say, the Model 600 and I get the feeling accelerated parts wear, or malfunctions, or both would be the norm instead of the exception using one of the conversion barrels.

Astra 400 parts are getting hard to find,,,,,,

 

[astraman]

mine is very accurate & dependable(600). it's also fun to shoot. the only drawback is that due to being a blowback in 9mm, the recoil spring is very strong. this makes disassembly & reassembly a potentially dangerous task in which parts can be forcefully thrown long disances- making them easily lost.

 

[BluesBear]

BAck in the 1960 I remember reading the mail order ads from places like Hunters Lodge and Gander Mountain (yes you could buy a gun through the mail back then) for the Astra 400. The advertisements actually stated that they would fire. 9mm Luger, 38 Super and even .380 in addition to 9mm, Browning Long, 9mm Bergmann Baynard & 9mm Largo.
And they would. (well... .380 was kinda iffy)

As I recall the prices were aroung $20 or less and we knew several people who had them.
Since we already had a 9mm in the house we always has 9mm Luger ammo around. When we'd go shooting we'd always shoot each others guns. All I ever fired in those early 400s was 9mm Luger. Mostly commercial 124 gr FMJ. The lighter 114-116gr ammo wasn't popular or widely available then. It functioned very well in thos eold Astras. I recall very few stoppages and most of those were from dud surplus ammo.

Years later when I finally owned a 400 I shot a fair bit of 9mm Luger throgh them with no ill effects. But since I was already reloading .38 super I fired mostly .38acp loads through it.

 

[Onmilo]

I don't doubt you did fire lots of 9mm Luger in your Astra back in the way back Blues Bear, lots of folks did.
But parts were still available and if you did manage to break something on the gun, pitching a $19.95 plus $1.89 for Express Mail gun wasn't all that heart breaking.
Attrition has gobbled up quite a few of these fine old pistols in the last 45 years and I just can't justify recommending what was, even then, an unsound practice.

 

[BluesBear]

The only danger involved was the headspace problem of using a too short cartridge.

My point was that if you put a 9mm Luger barrel into a 9mm/38 model 400 I doubt that any damage would be done. The rim size of a 9mmLuger is smaller than the .38acp.

 

[Onmilo]

I understand what you are saying.

Fed Ord has made some, let's just say, less than quality stuff in the past and I personally haven't seen where the quality has improved much.
Split a barrel and you will pretty well wreck a Model 400 in a permanent sort of way.

The rim of the 9mm is indeed smaller and this means the cartridge cases rock around on the breechface.
This accelerates wear not only on the extractor and ejector but on the firing pin port also because the case is bashing against the right side on one shot, the left side next shot, the top of the pin port on the third, etc.
All this is happening while the firing pin is in the process of returning to the rest position, shoot enough and this wobbling of the firing pin will eventually elongate the firing pin port with leads to primer flow, misfires, etc.

Again I just don't feel it is worth the effort to convert a gun to a caliber it was never meant to be and I will never recommend shooting a cartridge in a gun that it was never meant to fire.
The claim by the early gun pushers that the 400, and the Star 9mm Largo would shoot 9mm Luger sure did sell a lot of these guns didn't it.
And the gun pushers thought they would never get rid of them!
Suprise, suprise what a little "effective advertising" can do.

 

[BluesBear]

A good, in spec, chamber will hold the cartridge in one position. If a barrel has a chamber that is so sloppy it will allow the cartridge to "rock around" or "wobble" on the breechface then you have much bigger problem.

Several of us here in THR have installed 9mm barrels into .38 Super slides and fired thousands upon thousands of rounds with no problems. It's the chamber that secures the case not the slide.

 

[BluesBear]

By the way...

Ordnance = military supplies including weapons, ammunition, combat vehicles, and maintenance tools and equipment

Ordinance = a law set forth by a governmental authority; specifically : a municipal regulation.

 

[only1asterisk]

Several of us here in THR have installed 9mm barrels into .38 Super slides and fired thousands upon thousands of rounds with no problems. It's the chamber that secures the case not the slide.

Don"t you know thats just not proper! What would Dave Sample say!!!

David

 

[BluesBear]

He'd approve. The cartridge rims were flush with the barrel hood.

 

[Onmilo]

Yeah I should proof read better but nobody is paying us to type this scribework out.

I am happy you report that several have used 9mm barrels in .38 pistols.
I still don't like Federal Ordnance replacement barrels because I have seen two that failed.
Since Federal Ordnance is the only barrel manufacturer that produced a replacement barrel in 9mm Luger caliber specifically designed for the BLOWBACK operated Astra 400 which function just a bit differently than the 9mm Luger barrel in a .38 Super slide trick using what I can only guess are Colt automatics or clones that use LOCKED BREECH operating principals I feel your retort is unneccessary.
I have successfully used .38 Super barrels in 9mm Luger slides when paired in the Colt 1911 platform.
No damage, no problems, no issues, but a 1911 does not an Astra 400 make.

 

[BluesBear]

My comments were based on this:

The rim of the 9mm is indeed smaller and this means the cartridge cases rock around on the breechface.
This accelerates wear not only on the extractor and ejector but on the firing pin port also because the case is bashing against the right side on one shot, the left side next shot, the top of the pin port on the third, etc.

That's just some flawed logic. How is a smaller rim going to accelerate wear?

The chamber is holding the cartridge against the breechface at the moment of firing. Unless the chamber is very very sloppy it will hold the cartridge in the same position for every shot. This is especialy true on a blowback pistol such as the Astra which has a fixed barrel.

Also if a soft brass pistol cartridge can "wobble" about against a hardened steel pistol breechface and cause noticable wear then that's not a gun I'd care to be firing at all. I wouldn't consider it to be safe with any cartridge.

My retorts may be unnecessary but at least they aren't incorrect.