Anyone here know of the 5.7 Spitfire??

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MosinT53Hunter

MosinT53Hunter

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Evening all, recently a deal too good to pass up came my way on Gunbroker, and its now on lay-a-way. For now though, I am looking for information on the 5.7 MMJ Spitfire. Now, here's the odd part....I am not 100% sure its actually a Spitfire. Seems to be an Inland Division WWII M1 Carbine, and some ingenuity from the past, was converted to something else, least that is the best guess by the seller, and even he doesn't know. Not sure myself, as I don't have the rifle in my hands just yet. It has some odd conversion done to it mating a Winchester 77 22. lr barrel to the...um...what's left of the 30 Carbine barrel, and soldered together, from the looks of it. Now, I love neat old guns, the odder, the better. But not even sure what this is. Any info would be helpful, as I am considering in the future to convert it back to 30 Carbine. Pictures below. Thank you all in advance! gun 55.jpg gun 88.jpg gun 58.jpg gun 86.jpg
 
jonnyc said:
I know a bit about the Spitfire round, but that looks like a true abortion. Have someone knowledgeable look that over.
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I will, no worries. Worse comes to worse, the USGI parts are interchangeable with my 1st Gen Universal.
 
I don't own one, but know that it was a popular conversion for US Carbine in times past. I have a Marlin 62 Levermatic in .256 Win which is kind of similar but kind of different. The .256 is a blast to shoot, so I would assume that the 5.7 is similar.
 
Johnson Automatics... they went out of business after WW2 for lack of military contracts. IIRC, the 5.7Spitfire was one of Johnson's ideas that didn't really get off the ground. Winchester absorbed JA, Mr. Johnson went to work with Winchester. That might explain the Model 77 barrel on that Carbine.
 
I remember seeing a 5.7 carbine many years ago advertised in an old shooter's bible from the early 80's. If it was 1980, I was 13 years old, and at that time I was a kid imagining all the guns I would be getting when I got older. I also remember reading a "side story" in an old Numerich catalogue similar to what mustanger98 mentioned.
 
Demi-human said:
Prototype weapon, perhaps a very valuable one. I don't think I would take it apart just yet...;)
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I had thoughts on that, but I havn't found any pictures of early prototypes, and where this is coming from is Carson California. Makes one wish it could talk, huh?
 
Cool puzzle!

The Winchester Model 77 was introduced in the mid-1950s. Surplus barrels probably weren't available cheaply for another decade, after production discontinued 1963ish, so I would guess this was done sometime in the 1960s or later. If it was done in the late 1950s, somebody would have had to junk or bubba a fairly new .22 autoloader.

The barrel has evidently been sleeved all the way to the breechface, so it is possible the chamber is smaller than the original .30 US Carbine -- I'd do a chamber cast first thing. The 5.7 Spitfire was the most prolific of the necked down Carbine wildcats, but there were others: the Oresky, Tiger and Scorpion were mentioned in Ken Warner's article on the Carbine in the 1967 Gun Digest. See if the magwell is altered while you're at it -- if the conversion was to a .256 variant, it may have been modified to take mags for the Universal Ferret.

I think a conversion like this to 5.7 MMJ would be less likely than some custom cartridge project, given that the 5.7 conversion was just a barrel swap and Sarco was still selling surplus Spitfire barrels long after Johnson's second company went bust. Stranger things have happened, though.
 
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I had not thought of those Johnson's for some time. I was in a pawn shop in Knoxville doing some gun shopping nearly forty years ago now. There was a Johnson 5.7 carbine. The carbine included a two boxes of cartridges of some sort. There was a set of RCBS dies with the carbine. Left with the gun. I had not been reloading long but learns bunches about forming cases. I learned, mainly, not to spend time on these no win projects. This gun looked like a Universal with a wood sporter stock. Found out in the literature of the time this guns used old Hornet sized bullets. I later sold the gun on consignment with a local dealer. Another Johnson showed up here in a collection of NFA firearms that were in an estate. There was an article in Gun Digest or similar on the original Johnson. Those guns looked good appearing to be custom made. Also, learned not to depend on Cartridges of the World for loading data.
 
Dave DeLaurant said:
Cool puzzle!

The Winchester Model 77 was introduced in the mid-1950s. Surplus barrels probably weren't available cheaply for another decade, after production discontinued 1963ish, so I would guess this was done sometime in the 1960s or later. If it was done in the late 1950s, somebody would have had to junk or bubba a fairly new .22 autoloader.

The barrel has evidently been sleeved all the way to the breechface, so it is possible the chamber is smaller than the original .30 US Carbine -- I'd do a chamber cast first thing. The 5.7 Spitfire was the most prolific of the necked down Carbine wildcats, but there were others: the Oresky, Tiger and Scorpion were mentioned in Ken Warner's article on the Carbine in the 1967 Gun Digest. See if the magwell is altered while you're at it -- if the conversion was to .256, it may have been modified to take mags for the Universal Ferret.

I think a conversion like this to 5.7 MMJ would be less likely than some custom cartridge project, given that the 5.7 conversion was just a barrel swap and Sarco was still selling surplus Spitfire barrels long after Johnson's second company went bust. Stranger things have happened, though.
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Yes, I will be doing a lot of research and determining what it is chambered for before shooting, if I get to that point. But I like a mystery, and can't wait to get it. Its on lay-a-way, so it may be a while before I get to solve the mystery. :)
 
Well, I personally can't wait! Please keep me, um, us informed!

Did you happen to notice if there was rifling in the breech end of the barrel?

Perhaps a human thought they were going to make their own Spitfire, smiths be damned...
Or a failed rimfire project? The enigma must wait! Oh, the suspense!:)
 
Demi-human said:
Well, I personally can't wait! Please keep me, um, us informed!

Did you happen to notice if there was rifling in the breech end of the barrel?

Perhaps a human thought they were going to make their own Spitfire, smiths be damned...
Or a failed rimfire project? The enigma must wait! Oh, the suspense!:)
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I will definitely keep you posted. :) No, no pictures of the barrel from inside, but the chamber is far too large for a rimfire only. Like you, I have to wait and see. But I will take some pictures when it comes in.
 
Taking a look at the chamber makes me think testing the rifle tied to a tree with long string to pull the trigger. I also suggest considering that new barrel. Do all that after taking a look at how much dies etc. run to get the 5.7 running cost. Before going much further it would be a good thing to make sure that barrel is chambered. How is the gas piston connected to the current barrel?
 
Mowgli Terry said:
Taking a look at the chamber makes me think testing the rifle tied to a tree with long string to pull the trigger. I also suggest considering that new barrel. Do all that after taking a look at how much dies etc. run to get the 5.7 running cost. Before going much further it would be a good thing to make sure that barrel is chambered. How is the gas piston connected to the current barrel?
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Unsure about the gas piston as of yet. Havn't had it in my hands yet, and my lgs is a far distance from me. I will keep you updated as soon as I know. :)
 
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