Anyone know of a .380 sa/da that isn't blowback?

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Looking around the net, I found the Chiappa MC14. It is a double action available in .380 and 9mm, looks bigger than a pocket pistol, and if its the same in both calibers, would be a locked breach design. The only downside is the fact that Chiappa seems to have a spotty reputation for quality.
 
As Huntsman indicated, I would strongly recommend getting her hands on a Sig P250SC. Granted it is 9mm (as I don't think you will find a .380 now) but the subcompact size is just right and the weight really absorbs the 9mm recoil. Plus it is hammer fired and the DAO trigger is extremely easy to use at only 6lbs.


15.3 Subcompact Specifications


Caliber 380 Auto 9mm .40 S&W .357 SIG .45ACP

Length, overall 6.67” 6.67” 6.67” 6.67” 6.67”

Height, overall 4.67” 4.67” 4.67” 4.67” 4.67”

Width, overall 1.06” 1.06” 1.06” 1.06” 1.06”

Barrel length 3.55” 3.55” 3.55” 3.55” 3.55”

Rifling twist 1 in 10” 1 in 10” 1 in 15” 1 in 16” 1 in 16”

Rifling grooves 6 6 6 6 6

Sight radius 5.45” 5.45” 5.45” 5.45” 5.45”

Weight incl. mag 18.4 oz 24.9 oz 24.9 oz 25.1 oz 24.8 oz

Mag wt, empty 2.38 oz 2.38 oz 2.35 oz 2.35 oz 2.40 oz

Trigger pull 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs 5.5-6.5 lbs

Mag capacity 12 rds 12 rds 10 rds 10 rds 6 rds
 
Thanks Charlie Horse,,,
That video shows the technique very well.

My left hand is flatter on the top of the slide than hers was,,,
But all in all it's still a good demonstration of the racking technique.

Aarond

.
 
Kaybee said:
Short Version:

Do you know about obscure guns? I think my wife wants a pistol that doesn’t exist! For months we are looking for a compact sa/da pistol with a decocker that is soft shooting in .380 or .32acp. One with a slide that is extremely easy to manipulate.
Click to expand...

Thoughts on a couple of guns previously mentioned: Ruger LC380 and SIG P250 in .380.

Manipulating the slide is ridiculously easy on either gun. I can point the barrel downward, hold the slide between the thumb and forefinger of one hand and rack the slide by pushing down on the backstrap with the forefinger of the other hand. You don't get much easier than racking a slide with one finger.

Both guns are locked breech designs, which greatly reduce perceived recoil compared to blowback designs.

Both guns have DAO triggers, but they are not grandpa's 12+ pound DAO triggers. Both guns have trigger weights of about 6.5 pounds, which is the original trigger weight of the wildly popular striker-fired S&W Shield.

While both guns have light DAO triggers, they both have long trigger strokes. Love it or hate it, the long trigger stroke is a safety feature that eliminates the need for a decocker.

The LC380 has a manual safety and is a single stack design that holds 7 rounds.

The P250 is a modular double stack design; depending on which grip module/magazine is used, it holds 12 or 15 rounds.

The photo below compares the Ruger LC380, S&W Shield, and SIG P250 sub-compact.

CC_trio.jpg
 
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Charlie Horse said:
Looking around the net, I found the Chiappa MC14. It is a double action available in .380 and 9mm, looks bigger than a pocket pistol, and if its the same in both calibers, would be a locked breach design.
Click to expand...
You would hope so, but Girsan MC14 (later Chiappa) started as a clone of Beretta 84. So, it's a blowback.
 
Kaybee said:
She likes to actually see the hammer. She likes to thumb the hammer when she holsters it. She feels comfortable having a DA pull when the gun isn’t in use. We did try DAO guns she didn’t like them either. Her finger gets tired working that heavy trigger every shot. She deal with one DA shot and can shoot the SA well. Oh.. and it must have a decocker.
Click to expand...

I've read through the thread and on consideration she must consider stepping up to 9mm. Sorry.

The chain of reasoning is: all DA/SA guns she'll find are going to be blowback guns that will have a noticeable recoil. This, BTW, includes Cheetah, depending how you grasp it and other factors. And an ergonomic 9mm gun will have a recoil on par with that.
 
Zendude said:
See if the EAA Tanfoglio Witness Pavona would work. It's a double stack 380, DA/SA, and I think it's a locked breech action, not a blowback.
Click to expand...

Here is a review of the Pavona line, but the .380 is a blowback ...
The blowback-operated .380 ACP’s frame was overall slightly smaller than the 9 mm Luger and the .40 S&W (both recoil-operated), giving it the edge in terms of ideal size for a smaller-handed shooter.
Click to expand...
 
Kaybee - how well does your wife handle a feeding jam? If she does the "rack/tap/slide" easily, no problem. If she has had problems doing this in the past, you might want to consider some kind of revolver instead. Not as many shots but usually larger caliber and more powerful. FYI
 
There are still plenty of Sig P232's available and there will be parts available for them for quite a while. Even if parts dry up, any decent gunsmith can manufacturer most any part you'd need.
Check Armslist.com to find one local to you and take your wife to look at it. I'm confident that your wife will want to take it home.
 
Sistema1927 said:
The Pony that I had (prior to it being stolen) was SA.

I was going to suggest the CZ82 in 9x18, but it is a blow back.
Click to expand...

Are you sure your single action colt pony wasn’t a mustang or a government model. The pony is much less common and is a double action. As an aside Colt offers the mustang, pony and pocket nine ahead of their time when Concealed cary wasn’t nearly as common.

As to the gun the op is searching for, when no manufacture seems to be making the set of features one is looking for there often a reason. I own, have owned, or have significant trigger time with most of the guns discussed in this thread. Frankly, she may be forced into reevaluating some of objections to guns like the G42 and P238/Mustang. Those are three guns that smaller stature, not particularly into guns, women I know have all been able to manipulate and shoot reasonably well.

Most DA/SA 380s seem to be blowback bygone designs of yesteryear that aI love the classic styling of the PPK and the P232. My perception of some these guns though is they are big for what the are and their recoil is prettt stuff for their size. A CZ 82/32 is basically the size of a glock 19.

There is the grand power 380 that is DA/SA but I believe it is blow back. It has a decocker and is a 12 round double stack so it’s small but not tiny. I’ve never handled one so I can’t comment about it beyond that. It might be worth a look if SA/ DA is a deal breaker.

There is the witness Pavona polymer that is offered in 380 and is da/sa. I haven’t handled or shot one. I believe it is also blow back.

All of the other hammer fired 380s I can think of are double action guns.
 
I also believe the Chiapa mc14 mentioned earlier in this thread is blow back in the 380 flavor. like the grand power and witness guns when they make the 380 it is blowback. RIA did the same with their 380 1911 style gun. I assume it is just cheaper and easier to build a blow back gun and 380 allows for it.
 
Ive also owned many of the guns mentioned here. Here's the rundown with my personal experience with them:

Walther PPK/S: Beautiful, well made, constant jams, moderately difficult to "rack", :(

Sig P232: Beautiful, well made, reliable, very easy to rack, recoil stout due to very light weight, :)

Sig P250: Very easy to rack, reliable, very long DA-only trigger making target work challenging, but fine for close range self defense, :)

Sig P238/Colt Mustang/Kimber Micro: All essentially the same gun. These are great IF you are comfortable with a single action, very easy to rack, excellent short trigger, reliable, slim and (depending on the exact model) light, pricey-but worth it :):)

Beretta Cheetah/Browning BDA .380: Difficult to rack (the Browning is much better), excellent construction, reliable, heavy in this category, but probably not too bad for a purse gun, $$ but hold their value, :):):)

G42: (striker fired, I know), probably the easiest to carry, very long spongy trigger, reliable, snappy recoil despite locked breech o_O

Beretta Pico: A hidden gem here (the bigger Nano seems to get all the press), great ergonomics (especially with the extended mag), all steel construction except for the interchangeable grip frame modules, hammer fired DA only), locked breech, with rebates and such they are practically giving these away right now :):):)

So there's my 2 cents, good luck!
 
Sistema1927 said:
The Pony that I had (prior to it being stolen) was SA.

I was going to suggest the CZ82 in 9x18, but it is a blow back.
Click to expand...
REmember there were two Colt Pony's. One in the early 80's which was a copy of a Star pistol and was SA. The other came out in the mid 90's and was locked breached, and SA/DA
 
The amount of perceived recoil from the P232 depends upon which version it is. The aluminum framed version does indeed have some, but the pistol goes right back on target due to the grip design. The all-stainless version is heavier and reduces felt recoil a bit.
 
bikerdoc said:
Rock Island just came out with a 380 1911 style pistol. Im very impressed. Easy to rack also.
Click to expand...

The baby Rock is pretty much the exact same as the Browning 1911-380. They are both copies of the older Llamma IIIA which is a scaled down 1911.

The micro 1911 .380 pistols have the same manual of arms as the Sig P238/Kimber Micro/Colt Pony and are usually carried in Condition 1. The main difference between the Llamma based pistols vs the Star based pistols is that the Llamma design has a grip safety. The Sig P238/Kimber Micro/Colt Pony are based off the Star Model D.

I have a Llamm IIIA along with a Sig P938 (basically same as P238). Both are some of the easiest pistols to rack the slide.

I have to agree with others that suggested looking at revolvers also.
 
Thanks all for your input, this has been very helpful. We had a nice conversation this morning, and made a list from the suggestions made here and did a little online research over coffee.

“If the best feature of a .380 is that it has less recoil than a 9mm, why are these mid-sized .380s have such a hard slide to manipulate? That’s opposite of what someone who needs low recoiling would want!” My uneducated answer is that the cartridge was designed around the blowback system and not necessary for someone in her situation. Is that about right?

Charlie Horse said:
Is this the technique you mean? It seemed to work well for my 75 yeaqr old mother, but she still prefers her S&W \M10 to any of my Glocks.
Click to expand...

This video was great. Using this technique she managed to rack the slide on my full sized pistols, but still with effort. After using her SR22 in .22LR for so long she highly values the ability to clear a jam quickly. So for her own personal pistol, even though she can “manage” a stiffer spring with technique, she still wants an easier slide

Anyway, so, I was pushing the Glock 42 on her all morning and called her taste in pistols old fashioned. I have been “uninvited” to her trip to the gun store and Sharon is off to the gun store today with the pistol list but without me. That’s fine I got work to do around the house anyway. There’s a Lady instructor there she likes and I guess she is gonna rent a bunch of pistols and try them out.

If you all are interested I will post what she ends up with.
 
Anyway, so, I was pushing the Glock 42 on her all morning and called her taste in pistols old fashioned. I have been “uninvited” to her trip to the gun store and Sharon is off to the gun store today with the pistol list but without me.
Click to expand...

Yeah, don't "push" any particular gun, or be demeaning. It's all about her. I'd rather my wife carry the only gun I have she'll shoot, a Taurus PT22 (or PT25; I have two of those, too.), then get huffy, turned off, and carry nothing. And I certainly wouldn't regard carrying a J-frame unadvisable simply because it's "old-fashioned." But, hey, I am myself. ;)
 
MedWheeler I was just kidding with her, but you are absolutely right.

Credit card alert for about $900! :what: Dang that's the absolute max limit we agreed on.
 
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