Anyone make their own BP?

[JCT]

Well, it's no more a risk than handling powder when loading or reloading. It's much, much cheaper and I've yet to see a commercial powder as good as my homemade. ( I haven't tried Swiss, but It may be close ).
I make the charcoal for it as well, out of Willow, the ideal wood for high quality, hot, fast and clean BP.
30 Grains of mine is approximately the same power of 40 grains Goex, minus most of the fouling and soot.
As I posted on another thread, one great thing about Homemade is it's less dense ( Commercial powders are pressed to 1.7g/c3 ). 30 grains of mine fills a .45lc case and seating the bullet gives just enough powder compression.
Another reason is that no place in my state sells it anymore!!! I used to buy it at the town hardware store, then I had to go to the local gunshop, then further to a different reloading shop, then, past 3 years, about an hour drive, now, noone carries it!!! I then would go to Maine, but it seems the place I was buying it from there doesn't carry it either!!
It's becoming a mail order only item and with diminishing sales, I wonder how the big companies are going to stick around!
I can mill screen and dry about 5+ lbs within the day if needed. It's easy, safe and about $3-$4 a pound!

 

[zxcvbob]

I have an old Lortone rock tumber, and I have a couple of pounds (each) of KNO3 and agricultural sulphur, and a big bag of lump charcoal. I need to make a half a pound of BP again just to try it. (Last time I tried making BP was as a kid, and I measured by volume instead of weight and mixed it with a mortar and pestle. And I used charcoal briquets. Didn't work very well)

Is there any reason unlubed .45 cast bullets wouldn't work for ball mill media? I have some .457 lead balls, but they are soft pure lead (and I don't want to waste them.) I can cast some 250 grain bullets out of hard lead. I can't think of any reason that wouldn't work; I just might have to let the mill run a little longer...

 

[JCT]

I use .457 balls as mill media too. I cast them from some hardened buckshot I had.
Your tumbler will work ok for light use, just do no more than 200 grams total. That'll be 150 grams KNO3 30 grams Charcoal, 20 Grams Sulfur.
Mill for at least 3 hours. What wood is your charcoal from? Charcoal is the most important variant. Willow and Alder make the best charcoal. Pine is decent too. You wouldn't believe the difference, low grade charcoal and your BP isn't as good as commercial. Good charcoal and it's better than commercial BP.
It's worth getting or making a batch of Willow or Alder if you can. very easy to do.
Wet the BP with water/alcohol, screen it and dry it.

 

[zxcvbob]

The charcoal I have is oak, I think. I may have a little bit of willow out on the woodpile; I know I have some soft maple that is light weight almost like willow.

I'm not going to use my .457 balls. I don't have a mold to cast any more, and I don't have much pure lead anyway. I thought I would cast some .45 RNFP bullets out of wheel weights and heat treat them to make them more durable.

This is getting off-topic, but have you ever tried milling aluminum to make flash powder or zinc to make model rocket engines? (requires steel balls rather than lead. No, I haven't done it, just read about it)

 

[JCT]

No, I've never milled metals, they can be pyrophoric and ignite when you open the mill!
I do make different mixes of blackpowder with coarse charcoals added, for 1lb, 4oz and Stinger rockets. For model rocket, end burner engines, use the hottest BP you can make with 5% mineral oil as a binder. You could add a percentage of Whistle mix to make them more powerful too.
I wouldn't mill metals though, you can buy dark aluminum and zinc easy enough. I have a few pounds of German Eckhart Dark Aluminum, that should last me a long time.
The Maple charcoal is ok, that's what GOEX uses. Willow is exponentially better though, try a batch of each to see!

 

[armedandsafe]

I'd love to find some heavy rubber drums the same size as my plastic ones the rubber would be much quieter and last longer etc....

Go down to the local tire repair place and see if you can get an old truck inner tube the right size to line your drums. A little epoxy around the inside of the drum, slip the liner in place and fill it with baloons to hold it against the walls of the drum.

Pops

 

[jimrbto]

jct
I retired years ago after serving 21 years as an army bomb disposal tech. and can assure all here that anything that goes "boom" makes me happy. I do, however, have a very large respect for those things and treat all of them with real respect. Having said that- -I have no fear of explosives or BP and want to learn the best, safest way to make BP. Most of the methods I have read about don't suit me for one reason or another, I dont want to break up a dried "cake" and then pass it through a screen. I am concerned about using a ball mill to mill all three ingredients together and wonder if the supposed explosions as a result of this are due to a chemical/shock reaction or are these dust explosions. I am sure that milling damp or moist ingredients will reduce that possibility to zero. I wonder about milling a damp mix and will it really mill or just roll around in my mill as soon as a lump may form? Will a lump form?
I guess what I am looking for is a step by step guide to a good procedure.
Sorry if this is a PITA.
Jim

 

[JCT]

Ball milling BP is common practice, it's how all pyro hobbyists and blackpowder rocket hobbyists make BP. As long as you use non sparking media ( lead balls ), you're fine. I wait for humid days to take away the static risk, which is minimal anyway.
Setup your mill remotely, unplug it from an extension cord, that way you're not near it when it's unplugged, incase of motor failure.
BP isn't impact sensitive, rockets are commonly loaded by hammering the BP in with aluminum or stainless rods, around a metal spindle.
Anyway, get a good scale, accurate to .1g or better, weigh out the desired batch and load the mill jar. The Mill jar should be about half filled with lead balls. In my one gallon jar, that's about 30 pounds of lead!
You can wet the BP during milling if you like, but it's not needed and only makes it messier.
Mill for at least 3 hours. I've let it go for 8 or so, but with an efficient ball mill, it's clumpy by 3 hours and needs no more milling.
Pour mill jar contents through a coure sifter to allow BP to go through. I do this outside and pour onto a newspaper so I can then pour the BP into a container ( lock and lock kitchen containers ).
To granulate, wet down with a mix of H2O and about 10% alcohol. Just until it's clay like consistency. Take the ball of "clay" and rub through a window screen or whatever you have for the grain size you need. Let dry well and store in a good container, that's it.

 

[Redd Flynt]

Without going into boring detail, I make my BP like JCT. Ball milling is about as safe as it gets.

As for charcoal I use salix lasiolepis which is the arroyo willow.

As of late I use my 12 ton hydraulic press to make a 4" diameter, 1/2 lb "puck" of powder. My math says the dry density is 1.72-1.74.

So far I have not come up with a really good way to break the cake.

The only thing that will set off BP is heat. Open flame, hot spark etc. Consider that BP was loaded into cannon balls then fired through the hulls of ships and only exploded when the fuze burned down. I'd say BP is pretty darn insensitive to shock. Large commercial powder mills used stone wheels on a stone floor and often the wheels had steel tires. Some explosions did happen. Dust explosions also happen in the screen house.



Regards, Redd

 

[JCT]

That must be great powder. I have no way to press mine. I do think the low density of mine allows for a quick burn though. It packs more than enough punch for anything I use it in. 40 grains volume of mine is probably about 32 grains in weight.

 

[jimrbto]

JCT
I don't know where I will find suitable wood for charcoal here in the desert but will sure keep my eyes open. The only wood around here is Mesquite or someones pet weeping willow. There is Alder at Big Sur but that is about 4 hours from here. I will make a new barrel to tumble the ingredients in but will make it smaller than yours, I think you are making bigger batches than I will need. I can let my tumbler run for as long as needed to grind the charcoal to be finer than dust. I grind rocks for months so a couple days to do the charcoal would be no big thing. I have a lot of lead to make grinding media in the form of balls, I think .50 should work.
Thanks for all the input
Jim

 

[JCT]

Pine works well enough, if I had no Willow, Alder or Grapevine, I'd go for pine. Some old lumber would work well.
If you had to, you could buy willow charcoal, a few places sell it. I've heard that Balsa charcoal is even better than Willow, but so light and low density, it's hard to mill.

 

[skunkum]

JCT:

You have mentioned several times that the powder you make requires a smaller powder charge than powders you have purchased. How does one determine this? I'm sure that trial and error and experience play their parts, but are there measurable tests? I'm certain that I can make BP safely but I don't know how to figure out how much to use.

 

[JCT]

Well, nothing scientific yet, but with my Dragoon, the loading lever only drops with about 40 grains of GOEX. It won't drop with anything less.
It'll drop with about 30 grains of homemade. 30 grains of homemade takes up the same space as 40 grains of GOEX since it's less dense, so I get a fuller cylinder, better accuracy and less fouling.
Mine just burns hotter and faster, it's clear to see in a test by just lighting a small pile on the ground. Goex, you can kind of watch burn up. It's fast, but not "instant". Mine is gone in a flash and pushes some air in the process, more of a "whoosh" than GOEX.
Also, there's noticeably more recoil in my 45lc, with 30 grains homemade, more then when I had loaded 35 grains GOEX.
Even others noticed the difference right away without me telling them! It's clearly louder, hotter has more recoil and is much cleaner then the GOEX we all used to use GOEX.
I do want to try Swiss though, it's most likely as good or better then mine since they're using Alder. That's the key, using good charcoal. Until I get a press, I can't make high density BP, so I'm limited to fitting about 35 grains in my Dragoon and 30 in 45 colt.
A friend of mine with a Walker, Henry 1860 and a Vaquero was against using BP until trying mine. He gave GOEX a try way back, but he said it was too messy. I now reload for him, my blackpowder only.

 

[Vermonter]

I've seen some mention of using sugar instead of or in addition to sulphur. Anybody have some more info or experience?

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Not the present issue, but the previous issue of Backwoodsman has the writer's Grandmother's recipe and technique for a sugar based powder. It's NOT black powder, though, and she used it in small amounts in a small caliber gun for rabbits and squirrel. I have seen a similar recipe for a sugar based "blasting powder" in the book Henley's 20th Century Fomula's and Trade Secrets. So I don't know what the pressures would be in a large caliber gun, eh?

LD

 

[mykeal]

Yes, there certainly are tests. Any good quality chronograph will provide emperical data that can provide one-for-one comparisons between GOEX, Swiss, Pyrodex and a myriad of other powders.

There are a large number of variables to control, so it's best if the data were taken by doing tests with the same gun, loading techniques, bullets, lube and wads all on one day, or at least in the same meteorological conditions. Comparisons with published data would provide ball park differences, however.

 

[zxcvbob]

Some folks use saltpeter, sugar, and red iron oxide (catalyst) for a model rocket propellant. It's probably fast enough to use as a gunpowder, but I don't know; depends on how it burns when confined.

It has the potential to be *very* messy if it coats the inside of your barrel with burnt caramel.

 

[tickTalk]

Used to be able to get powder testers. They are basically a sawed off pistol with a spring loaded cover over the barrel. On firing, the resulting movement of the cover was an indication of the 'strength' of the powder.
I know Dixie used to carry them.

 

[tickTalk]

Used to be able to get powder testers. They are basically a sawed off pistol with a spring loaded cover over the barrel. On firing, the resulting movement of the cover was an indication of the 'strength' of the powder.
I know Dixie used to carry them.

 

[JCT]

Thundermugs or golf ball mortars are a good test too. I'd love to have some Goex, Kik, Swiss and homemade at the same time for comparison.

 

[dwave]

Thundermugs

That is what we call toilets.

 

[Redd Flynt]

I built two devices for testing my powder. One is a device similar to a bomb calorimeter, it measures pressure in a sealed container. Ignition is electric and a sample (1 gram) is ignited. A pressure gauge then gives a reading.

The other device is a small ballistic pendulum/mortar. A one gram charge is loaded in the mortar tube and fired. The tube is mounted on a free swinging arm and moves a dial.

Both devices only show a comparison between batches of powder. Since I can't duplicate the exact grain size of commercial powder it is pointless to compare. I did try one test with GOEX 3f and my powder is in the ball park.

 

[Sgt.Dusk]

Sounds kinda dangerous producing BP.....but how cool it would be to
be capable of doing it.
But how hard it is to make smokeless powder???? does anyone know?

 

[JCT]

What charcoal are you using for your BP? I just ran out of my last supply of homemade, so I milled a pound today. After 3 hours of milling it was densely caked in the mill jar. Probably the best BP I've made yet, but I'm not sure why since I always use the same chems and charcoal. My mill is very efficient with about 25 pounds of lead ball for media.
I lit a small chunk of the caked BP out of the mill. It just rips, unbelievably fast BP, no residue and a very hot burn. I've never heard any other BP make such a jetting sound burnt in open air. Goex doesn't compare to what I make. This week I actually backed off on my .45lc loads. I was going with 30 grains homemade BP, but that's some heavy recoil in my revolver, worse in shorter barrel revolvers too. I'm down to 25 grains, still packs a punch!
If you aren't already using Willow charcoal, give it a try. It's night and day when compared to pine, maple or other hardwoods. I remember reading that in the 19th century Willow and Alder were the preferred choice for BP. Most companies today are using any old hardwood ( maple, beech, oak...) and it's sub standard BP.
For those buying BP, try to find Swiss or Goex Express ( uses better charcoal! ).