Anyone use CFE Pistol for their 9mm loads?

[Glock702]

Is anyone using CFE Pistol Powder with CCI Primers and Hornady 115 grain FMJ .355? On Hodgdon website, all I see is data for GDHP and LRN rounds. Should i just follow the GDHP load data? I am thinking of 5.4g and 5.5g with 1.125" oal. thanks

 

[kcofohio]

Hornady data: 115 gr. FMJ-RN
Start load CFE-P @ 4.7 gr. and max @5.8 gr. COAL @ 1.100"

That said, I would encourage you, if you don't already have, a couple reload manuals. #1 in my book is Lyman's 50th, who covers a good variety of bullet makers. And very informative about pressures.
Mixing data to bullets isn't a scientific approach.

 

[PhillySoldier]

I use CFE Pistol and Hornady 115 fmj's. The load you mention seems pretty average and should work fine. In my ransom rest testing though Ive personally found that low charges w CFE had the best accuracy. Im using an OAL of 1.15" and a charge of 5.0g. From the ransom rest Im grouping 10 rounds @ 25 yards in 0.9-1" groups

 

[Dudedog]

I haven't used it with 115 but shot well for me using 124s.
Happiest at the higher side of it's charge range.
Meters decent about like HP38/W231 or WSF if you have used either of those.

Lyman 50 is good and added a few powders over 49 but does not have any CFE-P data.

 

[Patocazador]

Yes, good results with 115 JHP Everglades bullets and 5.3-5.5 gr. of CFE-P.

 

[Glock702]

Yes, good results with 115 JHP Everglades bullets and 5.3-5.5 gr. of CFE-P.

what was your oal using the everglades?

 

[Patocazador]

what was your oal using the everglades?

1.120" - 1.130"

 

[Barry loyd]

I’ve used it for 125gr cast bullets. 4.4-5.0 gr OAL 1.11-1.12. Shot great out of my carbine.

 

[Glock702]

1.120" - 1.130"

question on crimping 9mm, i know it's been asked a 1000 times but how much crimp on your 9mm if any?

 

[snakeye]

question on crimping 9mm, i know it's been asked a 1000 times but how much crimp on your 9mm if any?

Just enough crimp to remove the flare

 

[Glock702]

Just enough crimp to remove the flare

thanks

 

[PhillySoldier]

I agree about the crimp; just enough to remove the flare. Two things I test are to push a completed round against the bench and re-measure to make sure bullet setback isnt occurring and the 2nd is if you pull a bullet to confirm the crimp is not leaving marks on the projectile

 

[LiveLife]

question on crimping 9mm ... how much crimp on your 9mm if any?

For me, amount of taper crimp depends on the sizing of the bullet.

Since case wall thickness averages .011"+, I usually add .022" to the diameter of the bullet to determine the taper crimp. This method returns the flare back flat on the bullet and just a tiny bit more - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...re-sized-the-same.818806/page-2#post-10567453

So for .355" sized bullet, I use .377" taper crimp.

And for .356" sized bullet, I use .378" taper crimp.

push a completed round against the bench and re-measure to make sure bullet setback isnt occurring

As to testing neck tension/bullet setback, I used to push on the bullet against the bench top but now I feed dummy rounds (no powder, no primer) from the magazine and release the slide without riding it to better replicate the impact force of the bullet nose slamming on the feed ramp - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...neck-tension-and-bullet-setback.830072/page-4

Because it's not the "finished" OAL that matters but rather "chambered" OAL after any bullet setback.

 

[markr6754]

Ouch...that's what I have to say. Ouch and Don't ever do that again!

I went to the range today to shoot the Hornady 115gr HAPs I loaded over 5.5gr CFE-Pistol. Seated to 1.100" Primer: Remington 1 1/2 SPP.
These were HOT. No chrony, but the kick from my Kimber Micro 9 and my son's Kahr CM9 made me regret this load immediately. It's not often that I refuse to shoot anymore of a box of ammo. But I'll definitely save the rest for my big boy 92FS.

I also shot some Berry's 124gr plated RN 4.9gr, 5.0gr, and 5.1gr CFE-P loaded to 1.15" COL. The 4.9gr were fine...not so bad, nice accuracy. The 5.0gr, warmer, but manageable, and the 5.1gr definitely too much in that pistol. Overall...I don't like CFE-Pistol in 9mm. Back to my tried and true HP-38 and VV N320. In comparison, these loads were like shooting 380s. I'd consider loading lower, but all of these loads left unburned grains in the fired cases and the barrel of our pistols...usually a sign of light loads...but trust me, these were anything but light.

 

[Dudedog]

CFE-P is happiest at the high side of it's charge range.
I like WSF, much more flexible., work well low-mid to high in it;s range..

 

[PhillySoldier]

CFE-P is happiest at the high side of it's charge range.
I like WSF, much more flexible., work well low-mid to high in it;s range..

Just to offer a difference of opinion; in my ransom rest testing CFE has been most optimal at lower ranges. I have tested w 115 fmj's (twice), HAP and XTP's. I have ran 4 testing days (about 5 hrs each) w this so far and have another planned for next Tuesday; to test an even lower velocity range. Best results in all the tests have been in the 1090 to 1130 fps. Which happened to be 5.0g in each case (varying OAL's w projectile type). In each case I tested 20 rounds (two 10 rnd groups) at 25 yards from 5.0 to 6.0g in 0.1g increments. Since each of the projectile tests had best results at the lowest end I tested, I want to test even lower from 4.5 to 5.0g next week just out of curiosity.

Ouch...that's what I have to say. Ouch and Don't ever do that again!

I went to the range today to shoot the Hornady 115gr HAPs I loaded over 5.5gr CFE-Pistol. Seated to 1.100" Primer: Remington 1 1/2 SPP. These were HOT. No chrony, but the kick from my Kimber Micro 9 and my son's Kahr CM9 made me regret this load immediately.

For my 115 HAP test using an OAL of 1.075" at 5.5g I was averaging a velocity of 1,264 fps; power factor 145 from a 4.5" barrel. I agree that in general CFE has some snap to it. Not as much as Power Pistol but both are the two best powders Ive tested so far in regards to accuracy. CFE definitely had the N320 beat in my testing and at half the price. I havent tested HP-38 as of yet but will give it a go in the future. Ive read good things about it so far.

 

[Dudedog]

CFE-P Shot well for me a lower charge weights, just didn't burn clean at least for me with 124s.

 

[markr6754]

CFE definitely had the N320 beat in my testing and at half the price. I havent tested HP-38 as of yet but will give it a go in the future. Ive read good things about it so far.

I was fortunate enough to pick up my N320 during the Bullets.com shut down. I paid $27 for it...just a bit more than I paid for my CFE. My experience with all VV powders has been terrific, but especially the N320. However, HP-38 feels about the same to me. Both powders make for really nice, almost pleasant shooting...and especially right after shooting CFE, as last night. I probably need to do a lot more testing with CFE, but I do really love my hand...and I won’t do a 5.5gr load under 115gr HAP again. I can’t imagine how you withstood up to 6.0.

 

[PhillySoldier]

At like $45 per lb, Im kinda glad I didnt like the N320. My testing itself was from a ransom rest; so no hands. I do however usually make extra rounds of each charge weight so I did get to shoot a small amount by hand afterwards just to burn off the extra. If interested Ill update my results later next week when I try under 5.0g for the HAP's.

 

[KYregular]

Yes, CFE is a fine powder, but works best in high mid to upper level loads. Not good for low PF loads. Its my go to powder for Berrys 124 bullets.

 

[santacruzdave]

Bought a jug of CFE-Pistol during the powder shortage when I first started reloading. I found the same thing as others here, CFE likes pressure. Sooty cases at all but max loads. Shot a lot with HAP 125 gr bullets out of a Beretta M9A1. Accurate at the mid-upper to max loads. Here are some results:

Created: 09-30-2016 09:56:53 AM
Description: 4.5 CFE, M9A1 4.9"
Notes 1: HAP 125 gr. Hodgdon CFE Pistol
Notes 2: all charges trickled up on RCBS beam scale
Distance to Chrono (FT): 12.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 125.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 62 °F
BP: 30.15 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 941 245.81 117.63
4 965 258.51 120.63
3 953 252.12 119.13
2 922 235.99 115.25
1 929 239.58 116.13
Average: 942.00
StdDev: 17.46
Min: 922
Max: 965
Spread: 43
True MV: 943.28
****CAUTION the following load is .1 gr ABOVE MAX as listed by Hodgdon***********
Created: 09-30-2016 10:45:24 AM
Description: 4.9 CFE Pistol
Notes 1: HAP 125 gr. Hodgdon CFE Pistol
Notes 2: all charges trickeled up on RCBS beam scale
Distance to Chrono (FT): 12.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 125.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: 66 °F
BP: 30.17 inHG
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 1019 288.25 127.38
4 1001 278.16 125.13
3 1008 282.06 126.00
2 1000 277.60 125.00
1 1005 280.39 125.63
Average: 1006.60
StdDev: 7.64
Min: 1000
Max: 1019
Spread: 19
True MV: 1007.97
******end of caution*********
Tested RMR Match Winner 124 gr flat point
Created: 08-19-2018 01:26:48 PM
Description: 124 fp mw 4.9 cfe pistol, M9A1, 4.9" barrel
Notes 1:
Notes 2:
Distance to Chrono (FT): 30.00
Ballistic Coefficient: 1.000
Bullet Weight (gr): 124.000
Altitude (FT): 0.0
Temp: N/A
BP: N/A
Shots
# FPS FT-LBS PF
5 1019 285.95 126.36
4 1048 302.45 129.95
3 1008 279.81 124.99
2 991 270.45 122.88
1 1009 280.36 125.12
Average: 1015.00
StdDev: 21.01
Min: 991
Max: 1048
Spread: 57
True MV: 1018.46

I was velocity disappointed and moved on to the next wonder powder BE-86. Found BE-86 gave me reasonable velocity at mid to upper loadings. Hmm... I still have a lot of CFE-P, could give it another look.

Have fun, be safe!

 

[markr6754]

At like $45 per lb, Im kinda glad I didnt like the N320. My testing itself was from a ransom rest; so no hands. I do however usually make extra rounds of each charge weight so I did get to shoot a small amount by hand afterwards just to burn off the extra. If interested Ill update my results later next week when I try under 5.0g for the HAP's.

Please do...I don't like to give up on a powder...but I probably had the wrong combination. I shot 4.9gr under Berry's 124gr CPRN, and that felt much better, and quite accurate in my hands. 5.0gr and 5.1gr that I also tested go back into the NOPE column.
However, I'm stunned by your price for VV N320. Powder Valley lists it for $27.95, right now, and $113.50 for 4#. I suppose buying one pound and adding freight and HazMat on top of that could make it ridiculously expensive...but no one does that. I stopped by a shop in Sharonville, OH last night, an indoor range that also carries powder, and they had 1# CFE-Pistol at $26.99...no HazMat or Freight, but you see that VV powders can be had reasonably priced. A group buy to obtain free HazMat and free shipping would make VV N320 more than worthwhile.

 

[PhillySoldier]

I grabbed it at an LGS at the time. Either way though the priority for me has been ransom rest testing 10 rnd groups sizes @ 25 yards. Groups for me were at 2 times the size for N320 compared to the CFE.

 

[Dudedog]

Philly, have you tried WSF, I really like it in 9mm.

 

[Capt.Roll]

I haven't used the CFE with 115gr bullets but I do use it for my 124gr RMR round nose full metal jacket loads.

4.85gr +/- .01 of CFE pistol
COL 1.105" +/- .005
Primer: CCI or WSP
Factory crimp die set for a minimal crimp.

Sorry, no chrono data but recoil is acceptable to me and my 9mm seems to stay pretty clean. No bench rest accuracy testing but I use this load for club IDPA matches; if I can get through a stage with 3 or 4 points down the load is accurate enough.