Anyone using AA#9 in 38Super?

[brutus51]

Have had really good luck using #9 in .40 Super ( 10mm for you sillymeter guys) but haven't been able to find much reloading data for .38 Super in other than147gr. bullets.
Would like to come as close as possible to .357 mag. velocities with 125gr. bullets.

 

[fxvr5]

there is some data in the Lee Modern Reloading annual 1st and 2nd editions. PDF versions are on the web. do a search.

 

[Hooda Thunkit]

I would think #7 would be better suited, but I've never tried either, so take it FWIW.

 

[Walkalong]

Deleted the wrong data. Thanks for the heads up @fxvr5

http://www.ramshot.com/load-data/

Link is still good, but unfortunately no AA # 9 .38 Super data there.

 

[fxvr5]

http://www.ramshot.com/load-data/

Dude, that's 357 SIG data, not 38 Super.

 

[Walkalong]

Dude, that's 357 SIG data, not 38 Super.

Scratches head..........the link goes to the page with the Western Powders 7.0 PDF.

Whoops, but I quoted the wrong data, thanks for catching that.

 

[styles]

38 super is more of a aa#5 round. Shooters world posts data for their auto pistol powder. 124 gr @ 1325 FPS

 

[styles]

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/anyone-using-aa-9-in-38-super.853467/

Odd

 

[fxvr5]

Speer has #9 data at their website for different bullets in the 38 Super.
https://www.speer.com/reloading/handgun-data.html

And there is this for other powders:
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

 

[Walkalong]

38 super is more of a aa#5 round. Shooters world posts data for their auto pistol powder. 124 gr @ 1325 FPS

#7 also works, and has AA #7 .38 Super data in the Western Powders 7.0 PDF

I won't quote it though, I have screwed up enough for one evening.

 

[brutus51]

Been using #7 and Titegroup with excellent results. Unfortunately with this virus thing going on I have to wait for the range to re-open before I can
chronograph my loads. Like saving my #5 for the .45ACP.
In the .40 Super I got an honest 1250 fps. with Hornady 180gr. XTP on top of 13.8gr.of #9 and the accuracy was top notch.

 

[rfwobbly]

While you can shoot No9 in 38Super, for me No7 comes much closer to being optimal.

Would like to come as close as possible to .357 mag velocities with 125gr bullets.

For the task of approaching 357M, I'd think you'd want to get a 9x23Winchester barrel and start there. The odd thing is, other than the tapered 9mm case, 9x23Win is almost the same components and physical size as 38Super. Yes, you'd need 9x23Win brass and small rifle primers, but your goal is more easily reached with the higher level of chamber pressure.


.

 

[brutus51]

^^ Thanks for the tip but I don't do sillymeters.

 

[GarrettJ]

^^ Thanks for the tip but I don't do sillymeters.

You realize that the .38 Super uses a 9mm (.355”) bullet, and not a .38 (.357”), right?

 

[fxvr5]

For the task of approaching 357M, I'd think you'd want to get a 9x23Winchester barrel and start there. The odd thing is, other than the tapered 9mm case, 9x23Win is almost the same components and physical size as 38Super. Yes, you'd need 9x23Win brass and small rifle primers, but your goal is more easily reached with the higher chamber pressure level.

The 38 Super can duplicate the 9X23 Winchester performance and still remain within 38 Super pressure limits. It just requires picking the right gunpowder.
https://www.shootingtimes.com/editorial/super-powders-for-the-38-super/99160

 

[fxvr5]

You realize that the .38 Super uses a 9mm (.355”) bullet, and not a .38 (.357”), right?

Technically, the 38 Super uses a .356" bullet, which is a 38 caliber, too.
https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...FP-and-R-Approved-2015-12-14-Posting-Copy.pdf

 

[brutus51]

Nope the 38 super originally shot a .356" dia. bullet which is 9.04 sillymeters.
Which is part of the reason I refer them as punybellums.
I have a hard time understanding why the 9x23 was even developed.
Must have thought they would get some European sales.

 

[fxvr5]

I have a hard time understanding why the 9x23 was even developed.
Must have thought they would get some European sales.

The 9X23 was developed here in the USA as a competition cartridge that would make Major power factor in an unsupported chamber.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×23mm_Winchester

 

[brutus51]

The 9X23 was developed here in the USA as a competition cartridge that would make Major power factor in an unsupported chamber.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9×23mm_Winchester

Please explain to me the advantage of an unsupported chamber?

 

[fxvr5]

Please explain to me the advantage of an unsupported chamber?

It's not an issue of an advantage of an unsupported chamber. It's just that ramped barrels (and frames) weren't as common as they are now.

It's my understanding that some of the guns used for IPSC/USPSA at that time did not have ramped barrels. 38 Super brass wasn't always strong enough to safely handle the pressure in unsupported barrels - plus the old power factor was higher then (175) than it is now (165).

A stronger case, which the 9X23 has, solved the problem. (This applies to the original Winchester 9X23 cases. Starline's 9X23 Comp is not as strong as the Winchester case.)

A couple minutes with a reamer could convert a 38 Super or 9mm barrel into a 9X23.

 

[Walkalong]

The last time this basic question came up was when @brutus51 asked this same question (Thread linked to in post # 8). @fxvr5 turned me onto N-105 in .38 Super in that thread.

I posted my #9 load there.

The N-105 load (10.0 Grs and an RMR 124 Gr match Winner @ 1.275 to 1.280 OAL with a WSR primer) did 1345 FPS with less signs of pressure than my 3N37 load and no primer swipe. Good stuff. Check data, work it up, the Vihtavuori PFD goes a bit higher than 10.0.

 

[brutus51]

Thanks for the explanation but I think I'll just stick to the JMB 38ACP geometry, maybe if they changed the name to the .355 x .9 inch.

 

[fxvr5]

Thanks for the explanation but I think I'll just stick to the JMB 38ACP geometry, maybe if they changed the name to the .355 x .9 inch.

The 9X23 also uses a .356" bullet, according to SAAMI.